I know the feeling. I’ve known several people who were very unique and fun years ago, but who have since “found Jesus;” it’s like effectively losing them as friends. They’re simply not the same people anymore.

It reminds me of the story from ‘Tales of the Dervishes’ by Idries Shah

When the Waters Were Changed
Once upon a time Khidr, the teacher of Moses, called upon mankind with a warning. At a certain date, he said, all the water in the world which had not been specially hoarded, would disappear. It would then be renewed, with different water, which would drive men mad.

Only one man listened to the meaning of this advice. He collected water and went to a secure place where he stored it, and waited for the water to change its character.

On the appointed date the streams stopped running, the wells went dry, and the man who had listened, seeing this happening, went to his retreat and drank his preserved water.

When he saw, from his security, the waterfalls again beginning to flow, this man descended among the other sons of men. He found that they were thinking and talking in an entirely different way from before; yet they had no memory of what had happened nor of having been warned. When he tried to talk to them, he realized that they thought that he was mad, and they showed hostility or compassion, not understanding.

At first, he drank none of the new water, but went back to his concealment, to draw on his supplies, every day. Finally, however, he took the decision to drink the new water because he could not bear the loneliness of living, behaving and thinking in a different way from everyone else. He drank the new water, and became like the rest. Then he forgot all about his own store of special water, and his fellows began to look upon him as a madman who had miraculously been restored to sanity.

Obviously your friends didn’t like being part of a minority. 

Case in point: my friend Ricki, who was one of my best friends during my teenage years. This was the girl who first influenced me to question authority. She wrapped my first joint for me. She was my hero.

At age eighteen, she fell into a major depression for reasons that are still unclear to me. It was at that time that some Mormons got hold of her. Several months later, she quit college and got married. Now she is twenty-eight years old and pregnant with her third child. 

We’ve tried several times over the last ten years to reconcile our differences and keep in touch, but it’s nearly impossible. We have almost nothing in common anymore, and the few times that I have talked to her I feel as though I’m walking on eggshells for fear of offending her in some way or another. Ricki, if you’re reading this, your legacy still lives on, even though you’re pretty much dead to me now.

I went to a Christian college, and all my old college buddies are ministers now, dripping with goddy stuff. 

It really means we can’t be friends anymore, because… how do I tell them that 26 years of ministry was all for something fake?  Or why do I tell them?

KPG: you should still send him an email.  Just because he found God doesn’t mean he still wouldn’t mind to hear from you.  Differences in beliefs should not stop you from saying hi to an old friend.

My Girlfriend and her family are pretty religious people, but My girlfriend knows my beliefs and her and their family, for being very religious, are the most accepting people I have met.  I have been in the same relationship for 4 years and we have plans to keep going.  Religion isn’t the most important thing to us.

My point is that it seems like it is a loose end for you and should contact this person.  And if he shuns away from you, then you will still be in the same place you are now.

I studied in Georgetown University. It’s run by the Jesuit Order and I tell you, they’ve found jesus, but they spend more time talking about gadgetry and science. And they do it over beer and red wine. It’s good for the heart, they say

An interesting bunch. You should really meet one.

My point is that it seems like it is a loose end for you and should contact this person.  And if he shuns away from you, then you will still be in the same place you are now.

So wise for one so young.
I agree, KPG. Nothing to lose.

I don’t know what to say.

Hello my friend. I was thinking of you and I found you. I don’t know if I’m happy or sad but at least we’re still alive. 

I’m sure DoF could write a better letter. 

Actually I sent them letters, and got back grieving replies, and pretty much didn’t know what to say after that.  Your mileage may vary.

At this point, I think I’d be too confrontational. Maybe in a week or so when my anger and anoyance has subsided…..

I too have seen this happen to a few friends. Some people seem to choose atheism for the wrong reasons. Not because they understand it, but because it is dysfunctional to how they were raised. A way to rebel. It is part of the reason I sometimes wonder about people who take atheism to an almost religious fervor. 

Some people truly need religion and I don’t even really see that as a negative. It is a comfort blanket, a tool that helps to fill those holes that you get in logic when one thinks too much of the why. I don’t think they should be condescended for needing it, it is just part of who they are. I sometimes wonder if religion wasn’t something that evolved with higher consciousness, something that actually allowed humans to be a more fit species.

I’d accept that if I continued the thought to include the idea that religion is now a vestigial concept in the community consciousness, a formerly promoting and progressive construct that by development alongside other ideals of civilizations has no more place in the future of mankind as a useful meme than the appendix.

no more place in the future of mankind as a useful meme than the appendix.

Religious freedom goes both ways.  An atheist should not shit all over somebody else because they happen to believe in gods or other entities.  I don’t have any problem with shitting all over somebody who tries to make others believe, conform, or live according to their beliefs.

Just because your friends found Jesus, don’t mean he’s lost all taste in music and stuff.

My best friend from primary school is a priest now. Two weeks ago we were discussing how we both enjoyed the Russian horror “Night Watch” and we were looking forward to the sequel. He was worried that it wouldn’t be out before he goes to the missions next year.

One of my oldest friends was an evangelical when I met him. Though he’s not nearly as bad as most (the beer and sex come to mind), in college he joined a Christian fraternity, he graduated with a Biology degree and still believes in creationism, and then he joined the Army so he can “defend America from terrorists.”

I once told him that were the draft reinstated, I’d be in Canada fast enough to spin his head. He said he’d beat the hell out of me before I could go.

But before he left for boot camp, we had a 2-man Half-Life 2 LAN party, cooked some giant cheeseburgers, and shared a manly hug on his way out the door.

I guess the point is that I agree with a lot of the opinion here that such a difference in opinion/belief shouldn’t necessarily preclude friendship.

I can’t recall ever being that disappointed in my life. I’m still shaking my head in disgust.

I feel ya, KPG. It’s difficult to empathize or to understand how someone who previously was a completely rational, thinking person, can “turn off” the logical and rational part of their brain in order to accept the fantasies and delusions of religious belief. It’s a crushing blow to those of us who value intellect to see someone we thought immune be sucked into the void and empty-headedness that is Christianity.

I would send an email just to touch base and open some communication. That is, if you can be friends with him again even though he has passionately devoted himself to a religion. I say that because some people decide to end friendships or alienate people like us because we are Atheists-and it goes the other way around too. You also have to ask yourself would he want you as a friend now though you are an Atheist? You and I know people are more than just their religion or lack thereof. Anyone can give you their opinion or unsolicited advice about it but when they try to change you because of it, it’s time to cut them off. I had a best friend like that too. He was a really great guy and helped me through some really rough stuff but after he returned from the first Iraq war, he wasn’t the same person. He had his religion and to hell with the rest of us. It’s worth a shot-you might be surprised.

I guess the point is that I agree with a lot of the opinion here that such a difference in opinion/belief shouldn’t necessarily preclude friendship.

Understand, I am not rejecting them as friends because of their beliefs.  But I can see that my deconversion causes them genuine pain and I just don’t know what to do next.

But I can see that my deconversion causes them genuine pain and I just don’t know what to do next.

It’s interesting to me that (for the most part) people understand when a Christian says, “It causes me great pain to know your soul’s in peril due to your failure to accept Jesus.” However, it’s apparently beyond the ken of most people that we atheists feel exactly the same sort of emotional pain in seeing someone we care about become so invested in their religious superstitions that they set aside or squelch their intellect in order to maintain their beliefs.

Actually I sent them letters, and got back grieving replies, and pretty much didn’t know what to say after that. ...  Understand, I am not rejecting them as friends because of their beliefs.  But I can see that my deconversion causes them genuine pain and I just don’t know what to do next.

Are they rejecting you?  If they are Catholic or many of the more liberal mainline denominations, there is be a good chance that they wouldn’t be outwardly judgemental toward you and your friendship could continue based upon those parts of you both that don’t involve religion.  (Zac and his brother the father notwithstanding).  If they are tight assed fundies you may no longer have anything in common.

None of my old friends from the 1980’s seem to have found religion.  In fact, 2 out of the 3 guys in my wedding party are in jail.  The 3rd guy is an accountant, so I periodically urge him to get involved in an insider trading scandal so I can claim a hat trick.

All hail the goat.

Part of me wants to be really irked at the “Oh, my old friend is dead to me now because they’ve descended and devolved into the utter silliness and theocratic claptrap that is Christianity, instead of being the smart, witty, freewheeling, free-thinking, joint-rolling, fun person I used to know them as, back when we were young.”

Of course, I can think of folks who I’ve drifted away from over the years, as their lives took seriously divergent courses.  I never found religion (or lack thereof) per se a major issue—it was usually more just a change in pass-times, in priorities, in what they insisted on talking about (vs., of course, the stuff *I* was interested in talking about).  The threads of common experience and viewpoint that once bound are now too few to sustain those relationships, beyond a casual reminiscence about yesteryear.

I try not to automatically assume, in those cases, that it’s just *them* who has changed, or that the change is necessarily just *their* (or anyone’s) “fault.”  Indeed, sometimes change/growth is considered a *good* thing (though movement doesn’t necessarily equal progress).

I *can* imagine some folks getting into things that I wouldn’t want to be associated with, or have a relationship with someone who was into them.  But is that an indictment of them, or of myself?  I like to think the former, rather than the latter, but it’s a question that should at least be asked.  To what extent is that other person simply challenging my own beliefs or priorities or lifestyle in a way that’s uncomfortable, vs. being unhealthy (to them and/or me)?  And, of course, how much of a challenge am I looking for in that area of my life, vs. someone just to sit back with and share a few beers?

***Dave, whether or not somebody acquires or sheds religious belief is not, per se, something to get in the way of friendship or a renewal thereof.

Having said that, I would expect that such a diametrical change of belief systems does not happen on a whim and that it is probably part and parcel of a pervasive change of personality, which could quite conceivably get in the way of friendship. Could, not must get in the way. In every single case, it’s in the eye of the beholder if such a change could be considered as growth, a coping mechanism with personal trauma, or plain and simple change.

I face a similar dilemma these days, although the sticking point is not religion, but what I consider quackery. I have (deliberately) lost touch of that person almost twenty years ago, am not opposed to opening a new line of communication, but there is the possibility that such will be short-lived. Such is life.

I’ve been following this thread with some interest and ***Dave’s reply finally prompted me to respond because I think he raises an important point.

I’ve had a few friends/relatives over the years who have suddenly found religion and taken it up with quite a bit of zeal. One of them, Daryl Cantrell, occasionally comments here on SEB. As many of you have probably noticed from the exchanges between Daryl and I in other threads we’re not the close friends as we once were. There have been times, after reading one of his comments here, that I’ve been left with the same since of loss that KPG expressed in his entry.

By the same token my favorite Aunt and Uncle suddenly decided to become Evangelical Christians and they quit their jobs, sold their home and most of their belongings, took up Clowning, bought an old school bus which they converted into a kind of motor home, and drove around the country as Clowns for Jesus doing shows at various churches and such because they felt it was their calling from God.

Now we all know that, out of all the Christian sects, I have the hardest time with the Evangelicals. Combine that with what seemed to me to be a perfectly nutty course of action for them to take as a career move and you’d think I wouldn’t be able to stand my Aunt and Uncle anymore, but the truth is they have never once criticized my religious outlook and have told me flat out that I have to follow the path I feel to be the correct one. Out of all the Evangelicals I’ve ever known they were easily the most tolerant and accepting proving that there are always exceptions to the rules. The only real reason I don’t have much contact with them is because they eventually settled down in Florida and are back to living busy lives.

My point is this: Religious outlook is only one aspect of a person and it can be a big part of someone’s life without it necessarily being a negative on your relationship to them. It really does come down to how much both parties make it an issue between them because there’s nothing that says we Atheists can’t be just as overly judgmental as any Christian.

***Dave is another perfect example of this in my mind. I consider him a good friend even though we’ve never met and his religious outlook isn’t an issue. There are plenty of other religious people I call good friends as well. So, if it were me, I wouldn’t necessarily write someone off simply because they’ve suddenly found Jesus. I’d give them the benefit of the doubt and see how things go before making that call.

Great title for the entry, KPG; I’m jealous.

As for the former friend, my advice is not to sweat it. People often use friends to represent and justify their own beliefs and passions. If he’s insecure in his beliefs and needs others to shore them up, he won’t desire your continued friendship anyway.

Spend some time secretly reading his website to see if you think he’d value a re-connect. If he doesn’t seem the type to, it’s his loss anyway, right? Some friends will be your friend no matter what; others not so much.