I wouldn’t mind at all (in fact, I might even appreciate it) if someone offered to pray for me in response to a hardship that I was experiencing. I myself sometimes meditate to a higher power in times of stress.

However, if someone were to offer to pray for me out of what I consider to be sanctimony, then I would probably get offended (even if said individual’s intentions were entirely sound). For example, I once sat next to a woman on a plane who offered to pray for me once I revealed that I live with a man whom I am not married to. Thanks, but no thanks.

Thanks for all the thoughts and well wishes which I shall pass on to my wife. To clear it up a bit she has Indolent’ (non-agressive)Non-Hodgkins which is incurable.
It doesn’t really do anything except sit there waiting to turn into “agressive” lymphoma. (It’s been five years now) As soon as it does, however, chances are better than even that will kill you.
On the subject of prayer, do not pray for a miracle cure for as Jim Morrison of the Doors once said. “You cannot petition the LORD with prayer!” From the book God-101 (what the church doesn’t want you to know)
Pray instead that the great strides they are making into the treatment of lymphoma produces
1.A cure or
2. Something to reduce it to just a chronic condition - before she becomes another victim, because to be perfectly honest I don’t now how I could make it without her.
By the way for SEBS members, if you go to http://www.God-101.com and write me on the contact page I will send a free copy of the book to you, just don’t tell anyone else it’s free or I might have to send “The boys from New York” around to have a talk with you.
Allan

Jeff: I’ve always been uncomfortable whenever I hear that somebody is praying for me.

I live in a fairly secular (so far) society so if it’s happened to me, I sure don’t recall.
I’d probably say, with distain, something like: Yeah. Whatever ya reckon, mate.
There are all sorts of people on the planet I don’t like but I am forced to share my air with them because I’m not allowed to kill them as I’d go gaol which is something I probably wouldn’t enjoy.
The other point being - if I spend time thinking of ‘them’, they win; that usually pulls me up and back to: Let it slide - To each his own - What doesn’t kill me makes me stronger - Fuck ‘em, or anything else that works.

LK: ... my 13 yr old daughter has Hodgkins … If Mr. Death were around he’d probably attest I am an eternal optimist.

I’d much rather a truthful optimist supporting to me than a folly of Fundies. 

Let ‘em pray and be thankful they aren’t burning us at the stake.

I always have to remind myself that they outnumber us dramatically.

DoF: ... there are no illegitimate children.

Correct!!
I recall reading in the bible (Corinthians 1 or 2 I think it was) that a bastard shall not go to heaven ... even to the tenth generation ... or some such crap.
But they still refer to him as a loving god.
With friends (fiends) like that who needs enemies.

Moses: “You cannot petition the LORD with prayer!�

Amon to that.

Moses: “You cannot petition the LORD with prayer!�

What would you petition him for? Could he get Firefly back on the air? Does he know anybody at Fox?

1) I often get HUGE gaps (2-3 screens) esp after video links- assume its just AOL fucking up.

2) HMMM- An argument of Athiest would be more accurate (Agree, or you prove me right).

3) Prayer. Person gets better = Prayer works, Person doesnt get better = God had other plans.  Thats something L4T never answered.  Why should God change His mind. Why only some prayers.  If that was the correct out come why start with the original outcome before people prayed.

4) Lets be gentle with L4T.  He seems a nice bloke, very genuine, not like some of the Trolls who pass through.

5) see point 2-

Agree, or you prove me right

Have I just started my own religeon?

LH: Lets be gentle with L4T.  He seems a nice bloke, very genuine, not like some of the Trolls who pass through.

I agree. Say what you will about his reasoning and circular theology, but the guy still largely comes off as a sweetheart.

Aw shucks...thanks guys. Y’all seem O.K. too once you get beyond the “smokin’ out the idiots” litmus test. I’ve read some of the name-calling, to-hell-with-logic, drive-by screamin’ fundie posts here, and can only shake my head, with increased understanding of your reluctance to even engage us Christians.
Thanks though, for the compliment. You think I’m nice? You oughtta meet my Father (He you affectionately refer to as “Skydaddy!”
Allow me to offer a reaction:
“Sheesh, the guy may be nice, but he never gives up!”

Aw shucks...thanks guys. Y’all seem O.K. too once you get beyond the “smokin’ out the idiots” litmus test. I’ve read some of the name-calling, to-hell-with-logic, drive-by screamin’ fundie posts here, and can only shake my head, with increased understanding of your reluctance to even engage us Christians.
Thanks though, for the compliment. You think I’m nice? You oughtta meet my Father (He you affectionately refer to as “Skydaddy!")
Allow me to offer a reaction (you’ll have to provide the rolling eyes):
“Sheesh, the guy may be nice, but he never gives up!”

Les may be thinking right now:
“Yeah O.K., fine. Now if I can just get L4T to be patient enough when hitting send to avoid double-posting!”

So do you Sadie.

This has nothing to do with the topic other than I think somebody was praying for me without me knowing it.
I just walked across the street to where a woman was having a yard sale. She sold me 5 full sized comic book storage boxes (roughly 3 feet long for those not in the know)and a smaller 6th box all stuffed with near mint condition, boxed, and boarded comic books for $200.00.
I immediately went online and started pricing some of them at a discount comic dealer and hit $288.00 with the first handfull. I haven’t even opened the 5 big boxes.
I think she was mad at her husband and sold his collection out from under him or something. I can’t figure out why else she would have dumped what is probably going to be $1200.00 to $1500.00 worth of comics for only $200.00.
Would somebody please come over and assist me in wiping up the drool pool forming on the floor? These are DC comics and I’m a Marvel guy, but I’m still giggling madly right now.

You oughtta meet my Father

Like Hank’s ass?

You oughtta meet my Father

The psychopath? The one who punishes people for what their great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather did? The perfect being who designed my eye so that it isn’t as good as some lower lifeforms? We are talking about the same chap here?

I’m with Oolan Caluphid on this one.

Moses: So do you Sadie.

Thank you. I wish you and your wife the best--you both are in my thoughts.

L4T: You oughtta meet my Father.

So many movie quotes to choose from, so little time…

We are talking about the same chap here?

To borrow from George Carlin, it’s gotta be a guy - no woman would screw up that badly.

For $500.00 or what’s behind door #3 =

“Badges? We don’t need no stinkin badges!”

To borrow from George Carlin, it’s gotta be a guy - no woman would screw up that badly.

If it were a guy, breasts would never be sore and periods just wouldn’t happen at all.

Ever.

Gotta be female spite. (A woman would inflict that on another with better hips.)

Gotta be female spite.

You’ve got a point.

A guy would have taken that Adam bloke outside for a good spanking and then all would have been forgiven. Leave it to the chicks to bear eternal grudges

L4T, there’s something I’d like to add here that often gets overlooked.

Besides being nicer that the average religious-type, it’s your degree of comprehension. The run of the mill religious type that comes here does.... okay. A couple things may bear repeating. A full-out fundie straight up doesn’t or won’t understand our positions.

I don’t think you’ve circled around to the same point even once - you’ve asked for elaboration and then put and end to that line of reasoning, leaving it as something to consider. Something I felt you’d want to know, as it’s an important distinction between you and other passers-by, here.

Thanks Arc. You’re just being nice to soothe the Carolina loss to the Oilers (don’t think I didn’t see that Canuck flag!)
The more definitions of “fundie” I see, the less I want to define myself as such. Believer? Yes. Six-consecutive 24 hour day creation, young Earth type of fundie? I don’t think so.
Any of y’all ever read “The Fingerprint of God” by Hugh Ross? His book is probably influencing my Christian perspective more than anything these days. He basically asserts the value of refusing to let Faith and science become antagonists. I guess I believe that, if the Bible is true, it should, and will, jive with objective reality in time.
G,night,
Tom

In case it’s not obvious, I won’t be joining the L4T adoration club, no matter how nice or well-spoken a chap he may or may not be.

In his own words, he comes here for two reasons.

First, to challenge his faith. One can read this as a backhanded compliment or being subtly dissed, but in either case I find this mildly offensive. It’s a bit like being used as a marital aid…

Second, he’s here to witness/evangelize/proselytize. This I find more than mildly offensive. Sure, to bag hardcore atheists for the glory of Skydaddy you have catch them where they live, but it’s the same thing as a travelling salesman ringing the bell despite a big fucking “No Soliciting” sign.

Note the difference between ***Dave and L4T. There’s nothing wrong with commenting from a Christian perspective, as opposed to an extended sales pitch.

I always hate to hear about people who are ill and suffering—it is a shame that ‘God’ apparently doesn’t feel the same way.

I’m also angered by fundie friends in the healing professions who tell me that illness, disease, and death are the result of sinfulness—either the person’s specific sinfulness or that of society, their parents, or the world in general. 

As far as ‘God’s’ attentiveness to people’s prayers for the ill, I’d point out that there’s good randomized, controlled, double-blind studies on the efficacy of intercessory prayer with cardiac patients (among others). It demonstrates that prayer makes no significant difference in outcome for the patient.

The prayer may make the pray-er feel better—it always feels better to do something rather than nothing when others are hurting—but it makes no difference to the outcome whatsoever.

I understand the motive of intercessory prayer.  When I see children playing near the street, college students who are obviously having problems, I wish I could pray to some omnipotent, omnibenevolent, being to send an invisible protector for them.  But ain’t no such.  The best we humans can do is look out for each other to the extent that respecting the others’ autonomy allows.