Thanks for that image John- a Rolf Harris lookaliek with a hard on. “Can you see what it is yet?“ “Tie me kangaroo (!) down sport” “Jake the Peg”

I’m back, Jeff - who were you talking to? Came after my comment but I wasn’t talking about that.

Jeff- So EMF/EMR fields have absolutely no effect on the body

It’s a common thing that people who believe emf is harmful don’t actually know what it really is, so I will tell you.

I’m getting tired of explaining this but EMF is light, as everything that can be modelled as a wave, light can be atributed a frequency, and this is what determines the energy carried by that particular wave (since light has no mass it has no kinetic energy). Anyway light interacts with chemicals at specified frequencies, giving the chemical a specific quantity of energy for a a specific form of storage that I won’t go into in this comment. At these frequencies and only these frequencies can light interact with a chemical. Since the body is an elaborate bag of chemicals, the biological effect of light depends on some form of chemical change that occurred as a consequence of light interacting with one of the contained chemicals. This is known as photochemistry.

Any talk about a human emf field is merely relating to the heat the body radiates as light of frequency below what we can see, you affect this when you do anything that affects your temperature because the heat you radiate will change accordingly so as to keep your body comfortably warm. This has nothing to do with the concept of human auras, which I believe the con artists are trying to tap into - even if they do exist and even if they were analagous to regular light they are not within all/maybe any of the same dimensions, and so should be completely unrelated. I also have to wonder why someone would want to enhance a supposed aura by physical means if quite clearly that’s cheating.

Robert: I certainly believe in any external forces having influence on our life

Whatever external influence that may be, it needs to have a component within internal (physical) dimensions as a prerequisite for it to be able to interact in a physical way. Anything may have components that are also in external non-observed dimensions, light included, but if it affects us here it needs to link at some point. It’s only necessary that it interacts on thy physical level if it’s effect is directly physical, it could hypothetically interact psychologically so long as the mind had a component within a common dimension to the thing trying to interact with it, but this is speculation

Robert: Someone earlier talked about homeopathy. I my humble opinion it is a method of provoking our own body to heal itself by introducing the agents that have similar effect as the disease itself. It is an ingenious method how to use the power of suggestion

For getting immune to an organism that contains little identifying glycoprotiens, this is how vaccination works, but not every harmful effect comes from such a uniformed nasty, some effects are not even necessarily from something biological (think of cuts) - radiation is one of these - you will never get immune to the damage that x rays cause because it’s not a biological effect and your body has no real method of shielding, plus it cannot evolve to withstand because evolution only concerns reproduction - you can’t realistically change the DNA of every cell of something that’s already alive

LJ+LH - In my view a hard-on is an indication that you need to take matters into your own hands, so to speak

To me, unsatisfied feelings define hell, and the physical ones in particular become ever more significant and are unignorable

I have some very compelling studies that prove we’re being harmed by EMF/Wireless/WiFi.  We recently discovered a 6 month long bout of headaches, sleeplessness, and other problems with my son were caused entirely by a whole house WiFi system installed exactly 6 months ago.

Once I pulled that system, my sons symptoms disappeared without hours and haven’t been back sense.  This spurred me to do research and find some pretty compelling data.  One fact is that the EPA/FCC has *ONLY* tested thermal effects of these systems, nothing else!  I have a letter from the EPA confirming this.

We’re already seeing the effects of widescale EMF poisoning - sleeplessness, irritability, depression and other issues. (look at the most prescribed drugs and what they are for) Its only going to get worse.  I have 4 SEC memos from 4 of the major wireless providers in this country where they state they must aggressively fight any potential information about negative health effects of their technologies.  Their profitability would be severely impacted, so they have plans in place to deal with this type of data - including large scale mis-information campaigns.  Now if they didn’t KNOW their technology would ultimately lead to real health issues, they certainly wouldn’t have broad contingencies in place.

In regards to Teslar Watches I have no clue if they work or not.  We recently got a Q-Link necklace for my wife and the results are nothing short of extrordinary.  We’re also testing purple plates, and the results from those tests are quite remarkable.  Including seed germination tests, etc.

I view EMF/Wireless as the single biggest danger to our health on this planet.  So any device that can mitigate the damage from it is worth a closer examination imo.

Jeff, I see a lot of handwaving hinting at peer-reviewed study and experiments and results. I’d like links to the papers along with where they were published for peer-review, if you have that info.

Scratch that - if I’d learn to read my bibliographies I’d have a better shot. I shouldn’t post when I’m burned out

Jeff - How does radio frequency emf (the sort used in WiFi, broadcasting, mobile phones, etc) hurt people? If it does there needs to be some kind of explanation as to the mechanism, it’s not enough to say that something does something, you have to explain.

My main reason for not believing that emf is harmful is that what I know of chemistry and physics suggests that radio frequency emf simply has too little energy to have any chemical effect, and without a chemical effect you cannot have a biological effect.

The amount of emf (intensity) is irrelevant because there is a rule that only one light wave can interact with one chemical at one time (though there can be subsequent interactions that lead to an accumulation of energy, but your chemical will tend to relax and emit what it previously absorbed beforehand in all but the most extreme conditions).

In short it’s only the frequency that matters, and this has to be high enough and of specific value to have any effect. Radio frequency simply doesn’t satisfy this. It’s likely that your family experienced the placebo effect, but there could be any number of unrelated reasons for their symptons.

Jeff again makes a lot of claims without providing any of said studies/memos/etc. to back them up. Put up or shut up, Jeff.

The fact that you think the Q-Link necklace does anything other than make your wallet a little lighter is evidence enough for me that you’re full of shit, but I’m willing to entertain the idea you might have something to back these claims up.

A few years ago there were a lot of stories in the UK media about power lines etc. Trouble is this sort of thing takes years to investigate properly and the media has an attention span of weeks at the most.

Husser is correct in that these things take years.  There was *NO* “Placebo” effect because my son is 6 and didn’t even know what WiFi is, and didn’t know we turned it on, much less turned it off..  We however do have both symptoms, and blood pathology to substantiate it was causing dramatic issues with his body. This isn’t as new as people think, there have been other studies that show Wireless directly effects the Pineal Gland.  Which leads to issues like Melatonin/IG panel imbalances and subsequent symptoms. (Sleep issues, depression, heart palpitations, headaches, etc) In the short term symptoms, in the long term I am afraid the issue is likely cancer.

Most of my studies aren’t on web pages, but I can easily email them.. Drop me a note at deepthinker08 @gmail.com if you want some of the most compelling ones (out of the 80-100+ I have)

As I said, my sons issues are compelling enough..  He starts declining in health, having dramatic hours long headaches everyday, sleep issues, etc.  We switch off the WiFi system, he is better within hours, the headaches don’t ever return.  We switch back on the system, his headaches return in a matter of hours. (and we do this without telling him and suddenly he is asking to stay home from school because his head is pounding so badly)  Since my wife is a MD, we run blood screening and find exact blood pathology changes in his IG+Melatonin panels that exactly correlate when the WiFi is enabled.

There are other studies out there, many in other languages that correlate our findings which we’ve only found out about AFTER doing our own testing.

Even if it does have an effect on the body what I need to know is how, not just that it affects a certain organ which then functions differently, but the actual mechanism for the emf interacting with the chemicals that regulate a cell’s function. Without this I cannot just accept something because if I don’t believe it can do it I won’t believe it will do it. Certainly statistics and timings of things can be compelling and are an indication that something needs looking into to explain, but here you need to reach explanation of a possible theory before people will accept that what you say is indeed possible, otherwise it becomes a debate over the validity of statistics that goes nowhere towards convicing either side.

Give me a theory on how emf is supposedly interacting with biological chemicals and I will give you serious consideration and feedback on whether/how that may work

More talk of studies with nothing to back them up. Anecdotal “my wife is an MD” claims aren’t going to cut it. My email isn’t hard to find. It’s right here on this very page.

A good part of the reason I’m skeptical is because I’ve been running a wireless router in my home for several years now with no apparent ill effects. I also know lots of other families with wireless systems in their homes that are also unaffected by it.

Is it possible your son is WiFi sensitive? I suppose it could be, but given my own experiences and the lack of any corroborating evidence I find the claim to be dubious at best.

Husser is correct in that these things take years

I’m not sure how- I didn’t make any assertions, I merely mentioned a scare story in the UK press.  I am prepared to believe that it is possible for a subset of people to be affected by electro-magnetic waves: we are able to detect similar within the brain, and have been looking at various medical uses, from electo-convulsive therapy to bionics, for years.  However, as I said there has been very little research done on the effect, so it is supposition on my part, as well as others (unless anybody knows of research).  No doubt the research is going on, but as I said this will take years to ensure the results are representative.

The human body is so complex there are still large areas we do not understand.  It is possible that a proportion of the population are susceptable- it would be foolish to say “We have no absolute proof, therefore it isn’t true”. Wide spread electrification is less than 100 years old, and the amount increases all the time- we know very little of its long term effects. But Jeff, you have not presented any credible evidence. Until some is presented, the Teslar watch will continue to look like a scam.

LH: we are able to detect similar within the brain

Hmmm- I wonder why, I shall look into the matter
Seems odd for something that uses electrical charges but I guess stuff like lightbulbs and solar pannels are indications that there is interconvertability. I also wonder if purely magnetic fields are generated in the brain, if so probably not significantly because it’s not a system of coils
Since were dealing with low frequency a franck-condon profile wouldn’t apply - the wavelengths of absorption and emission should match (i think) at radio wave so outside light of the right frequencies may be absorbed in this case at the points capable of emitting it. For this to have any biological effect the ability to emit these waves would have to affect the chemistry going on, and I stand by my earlier statement that radio waves simply don’t have the energy to do this - you need to be in the visible and above. (that we see the visible is an indication that that has sufficient energy to trigger a response and indeed it has sufficient energy for an electronic transition (formation of radical), this is the chemical effect that causes the response.

(sorry for dip*2 - realised something)

me: the wavelengths of absorption and emission should match (i think) at radio wave

not that that would matter, even if they were different (which they wouldn’t be because they’re not electronic transitions) you could still affect something’s ability to emmit, just using a different wavelength

I was thinking of things like brain scans which show active areas of the brain to various stimulii, and the thought controlled wheelchair unveild (?last year?)

Seems to be several types of brain scan so I’ve linked it
Some like MRI (Magnetic Resonance Imaging) measure absorbance of radiowaves for transitions between spin states, which are made different in energy by a magnetic field. This is exactly the concept of NMR (Nuclear Magnetic Resonance) used by chemists to identify chemicals but it wasn’t called that because the term ‘Nuclear’ scared people - in this context though it refers to the spin of the nucleus, not it’s reactions.

Others like PET work by putting a radioactive chemical into the blood that’s gonna emit, you just measure where it emits at what intensity - you already know the wavelengths to look at because it’s part and parcel of the chemical you’re using.

But I’ve heard dodgy claims that some devices might take input from natural emissions of the brain, such as computer mice for disability people. If the brain was emitting anything other than heat (IR and microwave) it would be interesting. The chemicals of the skull may absorb some frequencies and filter the out but radiowaves should make it through. Emission of radiowaves could be a conseqence of the franck-condon principle when applied to low enough freqencies, it effectively splits the absorbed light into 2 or more which have a sum of energy equal to what was absorbed. However to emit radiowaves you need there to be a transition with energy of that order, this can be spin states in a magnetic field but I’m stuck on what it would be without a magnetic field - if the transition doesn’t exist (is 0) you may be unable to emit

I saw the PhillipSteinteslar watch on “The View”, it looked interesting so I “Gooled” it
and eventually found my way here.
Wow, this topic started way back in 2003 and is still going strong, even though the topic
of the actual watch, has wondered a bit.

My question is this, if the teslar technology really works, why not put it in a watch or
bracelet that EVERYONE could easily afford to buy? Doesn’t the average person deserve to be
able to purchase “good health” too?

I also find it interesting that every time I try to find info on teslar technology, I keep
ending up at Phillip Stein. Hmmmm, it does make me start to wonder!

DC -This one from the BBC, though got lots of hits from ‘Brain Controlled wheelchair’. Sometimes you are obviously over-reaching.  Theres no shame in say “I don’t know (but I prepared to find out”. Instead you did that studenty thing of, well, pontificating.  Please don’t take this as an attack.  It’s just that I’ve heard too many people do it.

LH - Well I don’t know whether the brain emits radio waves but I’d pretty much ruled out the other frequency bands - I attempted to use what I did know to explain how it might be done. I will explain this in the next paragraph. It’s a case that I haven’t fully explained my use of certain models. I said ‘dodgy claims’ because I heard from dodgy sources and couldn’t be bothered to look further, it’s my way of saying that it may not actually happen, but here’s a possibly way it might - my own theory.

Coming up with my own theories rather than looking stuff up is easier, more fun and makes me think about it more - I encourage challenges to concepts so that I can adjust my models - part of the learning. It’s all too easy to say that I should only quote official opinions with standing, but to me the sources seem pontificating, and my alternative as a healthy challenge to that - to just surrender and submit is only strengthening the unquestioned holiness of the theories given by official papers, no need to keep within the box of what’s established

(wandering off topic) I particularly dislike arguements made on the widely-accepted-for-other-reasons principle of economy, i.e. in it’s use against the strong anthropic principle - because it doesn’t mean it’s not true.

My explanation of my theory: The Franck condon principle is that emissions are more numerous but lower frequency than absorption, this is because for electronic transitions you have a rule that bond length cannot change at the point of transition and there are more ways in which to fall in energy because it can, for example, fall in electronic energy but gain a certain amount of vibrational + rotational, alternatively it could emit the lot. My theory is that spin transitions of the order of radio frequency also, like vibrational and rotational, can take up some of the energy after an electronic transition, and after that, emmit an individual photon of radiowave frequency.
However as I said, spin transitions only really have an energy difference in a magnetic field, so the emission might not happen if a transition of radio frequency doesn’t exist.

p.s. Constructive criticism is helpful. I don’t take things very personally. I have my own style - I want to explain, not preach, challenges to the content are welcome

Sharon: My question is this, if the teslar technology really works, why not put it in a watch or
bracelet that EVERYONE could easily afford to buy? Doesn’t the average person deserve to be
able to purchase “good health” too?

It would happen if it was genuine, the market would be too strong and people will find ways around any patents there may be.

I transfered to the Philippines for a job with P&G, and even there, crappastic products from all over have flooded this 3rd world nation.

I see Teslar watches being sold in upscale department stores and Qlinks being sold at a small outlet in Cebu. Qlinks are popularized by known golf personalities but they don’t even make my goldfish feel great!

Then there’s the so called “scalar pendants” and mystic necklaces being sold at downtown Quapo and off the web by scam artists like magickmachines.com

Pseudoscience never ceases to bring people money!

Mark: Pseudoscience never ceases to bring people money!

It can be expensive because it can claim a unique selling point, and designer style (which matters to the type of people who’d fall for pseudoscience), and as a mystic item people buy it to try in vain to improve themselves mystically, the insult being that they think it can be bought. Mysticness allows it to evade all scientific testing and in some people’s eyes give them the feeling that it can do stuff that medicience can’t, they are trained to favour the pseudo category, and as a belief they see what they want to see, in addition to added placebo effect

Hi all…

Here is a link to Science Daily just recently
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070525202957.htm which speaks of the effects of electromagnetic fields on cancer.

Last year a cell phone company wanted to put a transmitter on the top of a 4 story apartment building in the area.  The residents voted NO due to our belief that emmissions 24-7 might have a negative effect on our health.  Since the goverment had already deemed these continuous low level emmissions “safe” we had to use the argument that it exceeded the height regulations for the area and would be unsightly.  It was not installed, but just days later a NEW scientific report came out in the regular city newspaper about the ill effects of these types of emmissions.

The research is still coming in on this, again see Science Daily at the link above and additional links below, on the effects of magnetic waves for more info.

Vioxx or Avandia anyone???  Why is it so easy for so many to believe in these kinds of medications and cures for illnesses when the records show that most have serious and sometimes deadly side effects - even many that are not on recall lists.  Listen to the commercials for most medications…

Holistic homeopathic and non western medical directions help more people than you give them credit for, but the problem is that after decades of eating the wrong things, smoking and whatever else we do that adversly affects our health, we expect the “cure” to magically do it instantly, while we still dont change what we eat drink or do that caused the problem in the first place.

The watch may be more of a bargain than you think.  Better to spend $600 now to potentially prevent an illness than thousands later to treat one.  And it looks cool and tells time too!

here are a few more from Science Daily about negative effects of magnetic waves:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/02/040209074236.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/03/000316070218.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/02/040219075606.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/07/980729064343.htm 
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/12/031209075035.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/06/060626092133.htm

Or you could show that there’s no evidence FOR the use of the Teslar watch. Seriously. “If you don’t buy this item, it could kill you”. What guarantees do you offer that the watch, which apparently is too good for peer testing and review, doesn’t cause mental disorders?

It’s amazing how many shills come back for this thing.

The only reason I’m still on the mailing list for this thing is to see what comes outa the wood work.

Actually, you are probably best having the mast on top of your building, rather than wanting on another a few hundred yards away.  Radio masts don’t radiate their energy evenly, as a sphere.  Instead they direct it away- it is pointless it being directed downwards. The diagram I saw it was a sort of umbrella. It is likely that those in buildings 300yds away get more radio waves than those in the building with the mast on top.  I bet that most of those who objected quite happily sit in from of the TV (a radio receiver) with mobile phones clamped to their ears.