Bill: after all, they need to justify their high income levels

science is one of the lowest paying of the qualified prefessions - PhD pays £12K per year and after that expect about £18K, it’s also very competitive for jobs

How do you know you’ve eliminated all other correlations? Known and unknown?

Elwed, what you’ve just said there is we can not ‘prove’ anything.  You’ve just managed to to destroy science and put Evolution on an equal footing to ID.

Elwed, what you’ve just said there is we can not ‘prove’ anything. 

“Proof” is a logical concept that has found its way into colloquial use as synonymous with “evidence”.

Science deals more with the probable correctness of a given model.  Does it explain the data?  Is it predictive?  At some arbitrary probability, it becomes a distinction without a (practical) difference but it is still worth keeping in mind because a better model may still be found.

LH, don’t be daft.

What I have said is that you can’t claim that any arbitrary explanation wins by default unless you have tested all other hypotheses.

You can avoid the effort of looking up or finding proof by deriving ideas - so long as you don’t introduce something that hasn’t been proven in that context and don’t say anything revolutionary, in otherways make it so it’s not an arbitary explanation to avoid the formality of scientific method, but if it’s a big thing you derive, some people are going to demand evidential confirmation. I doubt many people seriously think as formally as scientific method asks you to present it- it’s just a way of watertighting to scrutiny

O   O

  \      /
  \________/

whoops- thats meant to be a giant smiley, and I missed the preview button.

Elwed- even as I typed I knew the answer would be along the lines of Evolution isn’t proof, but its the best explanation.  Think the point I was probably trying to make is that day to day proof is less than 100%- imagine all those sportsmen havin to worry whether classic dynamics still held true with every throw/jump/etc

After reading this thread I just had to join this site.  Thanks Les.
I just watched Rosie and “ The View “ prop up the Teslar watch and give one out to the audience.  A usual ploy by a company who’s sales are low.  Remember when Oprah gave away Pontiacs ?  There ya have it.  I have waited so long for a place to read and vent about the BS of the common world and the suckers who fall into it.  From this watch that will help me sleep by blocking the 5400rpms of my laptops drive on my night stand to the sonic sounds from cell phone.  I found a GREAT way to overcome these sounds and wake up feeling great.  It’s called 2 beers and a Valium.  Medically Tested and Proven to work for over 50 years, I’ll stick with it.

Now I guess I should browse around and see what else tickles me here.  Perhaps I can find a thread about how I need Jesus to get into heaven as well.

Agnositically Yours,

JFA

That would be the Proselytise-Here-So-It-Wont-Be-Off-Topic-Elsewhere Thread (among, many, many others). Welcome to SEB.

I found this site after googling the Teslar watch, also after having seen a ‘sleep expert’ on the View claim it does work. He claimed he spent three hours with the inventor, poring over research before being convinced of the scientific merit. According to him the two electrodes pulse through your skin and create ‘a force field’ to protect you from EMF. I was dubious, to say the least, so I appreciate this site offering up debate. It is amazing the level of hokum that goes on with homeopathic type healing.

On a related note, in grade school, our science teacher had us create ‘quack medicine’ inventions. Being dirt poor, I created an arthritis cure device by duct-taping an AC-cord to a copper ashtray. The afflicted person places their hands in the ashtray, and the electro-whatzit reacts with the copper, yadda-yadda, etc. and they are then magically healed! I regret not patenting that…

Psychonauts video game

Hey everyone =]

A very nice back and forth on this subject. Not much for proving or disproving anything though.=]

Do Scalar waves really exist? The company, and sites I have visited while researching Nikolai Tesla’s works, state that Scalar waves are undetectable because there hasn’t been equipment made to detect thier waveform.

They do claim that it creates a field effect, surrounding the whole body in a “Scalar Bubble” for lack of a better term. This bubble/field is claimed to create a zone where harmful and detectable radiations cannot penetrate.

I would think that a company using actual Tesla technology would employ people smart enough to show the existence of Scalar waves by proving that the radiations in question are absent from the area in question.

I realise that this method does not prove that Scalar waves exist, nor does it render thier field/bubble visible, but it would prove that these questionably negative energies are being either blocked from the area in question, or neutralized as the manufacturer claims. Similar to using blood spatter voids at crime scenes.

Thanks for the consideration.

Give a person a fish and feed them for a day.
Teach a person to fish and they will eat for life.
Teach a person to learn and they will learn to teach.

Yo Mortis De Athinc, nice to meet you

Do Scalar waves really exist? The company, and sites I have visited while researching Nikolai Tesla’s works, state that Scalar waves are undetectable because there hasn’t been equipment made to detect thier waveform

I hadn’t heard of them until you said, but generally speaking if an emmitable wave or particle exists at a certain energy within physically observed dimensions, it has to be able to affect the energy of another particle/wave sharing at least one common physical dimension. If it does not affect the energy of another object within a common dimension, there is no way it’s energy can be stored in order to be emitted without storing it in a non-observed dimension, which to us would look like a violation of thermodynamics so I’m inclined to think that energy, though interconvertable cannot trancend dimensions - I have a suspicion that most of what we deal with can be ultimately attributed to momentum (via spin) - meaning that charge and nuclear forces might be ultimately generated by spin of a component particle - we know nuclear spin affects nuclear stability and is responsible for magnetism, gravity might be down to the spin of the most fundamental component of mass (maybe smaller than a quark) but it’s difficult in this case because gravity may also be a distortion of relative time along a certain vector more than others - hence making things attract

However if a wave is not detectable - that is it has no pysical effect, then there is no physical method of proving/disproving it’s existance. Also known particles/waves may have effects in possible dimensions that we don’t observe, indeed to me possible other dimensions may provide capacity for an afterlife if there is a link or if we simultaneously exist in more than one dimension - but the question is how you enter existance in the physical dimensions before birth if you came from outside.

I should also say that what I call a dimension is more a ‘parameter’ that includes mass as well as the space-time ones, and to me a law of pysics is an observed link between dimesions, in some cases allowing a unit interconversion (ie density links mass to volume, gravity links mass to potential energy and distance, etc)

Mortis writes…

Do Scalar waves really exist? The company, and sites I have visited while researching Nikolai Tesla’s works, state that Scalar waves are undetectable because there hasn’t been equipment made to detect thier waveform.

Ask yourself this exceedingly simple question: If the waves are undetectable then how do they supposedly know they exist in the first place? How convenient for the makers of this watch that the principle it works on is undetectable.

They do claim that it creates a field effect, surrounding the whole body in a “Scalar Bubble” for lack of a better term. This bubble/field is claimed to create a zone where harmful and detectable radiations cannot penetrate.

I realise that this method does not prove that Scalar waves exist, nor does it render thier field/bubble visible, but it would prove that these questionably negative energies are being either blocked from the area in question, or neutralized as the manufacturer claims. Similar to using blood spatter voids at crime scenes.

Sounds like a lot of bullshit to me, but it’s your money.

Would the real Scalar Wave scholars please speak up? Please speak up! Please speak up! =]. But with a little less techno-nonsense than distant claws. =]

Thanks for the consideration.

Give a person a fish and feed them for a day.
Teach a person to fish and they will eat for life.
Teach a person to learn and they will learn to
teach.

I am unsure when “my money” became part of the topic as i never mentioned planning to purchase or endorse anything.

Back to staying on topic as aikido teaches.

I dont recall making any statements that could be considered the fecal matter of bovines.
I just put forth how suspicious it seemed that people smart enough to work at the company making advanced electronics as they claim, can’t devise a simple test which would show a void in other radiation fields that they claim thier product affects / neutralizes. =]

Give a person a fish and feed them for a day.
Teach a person to fish and they will eat for life.
Teach a person to learn and they will learn to
teach.

Mortis - Would the real Scalar Wave scholars please speak up?

I may be wrong but it sounds like you only want to hear what supports the claim, seriously if it did have a physical effect, it would be easily detectable by experiments with eliminating light, otherwise it would have no physical effect on the body. What I say has further meaning, take from it what’s useful, it’s meant so you can look back at any time through the archives.

Hopefully this is clear enough.=]

I want to hear:

If anyone thinks the company’s own employees should be intelligent enough to at least show a void where they say thier Scalar field is being produced. Similar to a blood spatter void in phorensics.
Yes:                No:

I personally think yes they should, why havent they?
I am unsure what could possibly have been misread in my previous post to suggest that i was seeking support of the claim. Thats laughable, don’t say it “sounds like you only want to hear what supports the claim.“, say it reads like that since i never spoke those words. Then please paste the part that you possibly misinterpreted as “sounds like you only want to hear what supports the claim.“

Thanx.=]

Give a person a fish and feed them for a day.
Teach a person to fish and they will eat for life.
Teach a person to learn and they will learn to
teach.

If anyone thinks the company’s own employees should be intelligent enough to at least show a void where they say thier Scalar field is being produced.

Regardless of whether they are or aren’t - they have not shown the scalar fields. Void is a bit of a strange way to describe anything; even empty space. Outside the edge of the universe - maybe worthy of being called void.

The reason why people have misinterpreted what you said are your false analogies to things that are useful, like a blood splatter void. It’s a popular tactic amongst product shills to use false analogies to try and gain some acceptance of their ideas.

The Teslar Watch technology is less than nothing. It doesn’t exist. There’s no basis for any comparison - not even a blood splatter.

And by the way, X-rays which have a physical effect were undetectable at a previous time in history, and weren’t revealed by any experiments with light. (Gold foil and wax paper were all Mme. Curie used)=]

Thanks for the consideration.

Give a person a fish and feed them for a day.
Teach a person to fish and they will eat for life.
Teach a person to learn and they will learn to
teach.

And by the way, X-rays which have a physical effect were undetectable at a previous time in history, and weren’t revealed by any experiments with light.

Again, this is what I mean. X-rays had no documented existence, and even then, the onus was upon those who proposed it’s existence to show it before it became accepted. The people behind the Teslar watch are subject to the same scrutiny. When they put up and get their work in peer-reviewed literature, I’ll give them a chance.

Whatever the non existence of something can be called thats better than VOID, feel free to substitute it, that should avoid any more semantics.

Just so we are clear, it doesnt exist or work, no-one has shown either that these energies exist, or that they redirect/shield/neutralize any other energies.

I was attempting to remain neutral in the stating of my opinion, and thereby elicit purely scientific responses but somehow others only see me as some how supporting it even i stated nor intimated any such thing, if i did paste it so i can see it or get back to the scientific debate and leave the opinions out.

Just to reaffirm. i also believe the manufacturers claima are BS. Are we clear now?

back to the discussion, away from the semantics=]

Thanks for the consideration.

Give a person a fish and feed them for a day.
Teach a person to fish and they will eat for life.
Teach a person to learn and they will learn to
teach.

OMG, which part of me wondering why they cannot substantiate thier own claims differs from your view? are we not saying the same thing, it hasnt been proven to work?

YEESH!!!

back on topic of whether it is physically provable at all, period.

then onto why they dont prove it.

Thanks for the consideration.

Give a person a fish and feed them for a day.
Teach a person to fish and they will eat for life.
Teach a person to learn and they will learn to
teach.

I was attempting to remain neutral in the stating of my opinion, and thereby elicit purely scientific responses. Somehow others only see me as supporting it even though I never stated nor intimated any such thing, if I did, paste it so I can see it, or get back to the scientific debate and leave the opinions out.

Thanks for the consideration.

Give a person a fish and feed them for a day.
Teach a person to fish and they will eat for life.
Teach a person to learn and they will learn to
teach.

are we not saying the same thing, it hasnt been proven to work?

We are, for the most part. You add faulty comparisons to X-rays and blood splatter voids, however. That’s what caught my attention and prompted me to respond. X-rays were ultimately demonstrated to be true, and the utility of blood splatter voids has been demonstrated in practice, while it’s material basis is as clearly demonstrated by just shooting someone and seeing where the blood doesn’t go. The Teslar stuff isn’t even worthy of discussion except insofar as the talk of it’s worth has affected people’s product purchases (snake-oil).

Regarding whether or not it’s provable: If it’s not, it can’t ever be science. Even a hypothesis has to be falsifiable. If it is provable, we’re back to square one, which is waiting for them to do so.

Why don’t they prove it? Either because they can’t (see above) or they won’t (it’s a scam).

Sorry if we’re on the wrong level, here, but I don’t see anything up for discussion. It all seems very simple and clear to me.

The Teslar stuff isn’t even worthy of discussion except insofar as the talk of it’s worth has affected people’s product purchases (snake-oil).

Then why are you discussing it?

and where did “purchases” come into my discussion, stay on topic, period.=]

Yes I am suggesting shooting around waves and frequencies just like blood, and using the tesla scalar wave generator ( notice I make no mention of the watch, nor state that these waves exist)
to attempt to make a null zone ( aka a VOID, and according to the websters dictionary my usage of the term void is correct, being that words have multiple meanings.) or whatever else anyone would care to think of it as/call it, just to avoid future semanticxs yet again and get back on the topic of whether it is even provable in such a fasion. If you feel that method wouldnt work are there any that you feel would?

theres so much up for discussion if you could all just stop trying to place me on the side of the manufacturer.

Once again, so we are clear, i believe it to be bunk bogus bs, can we get back to the topic of whether it is even provable, whether by any method. My mind is open and I DO FEEL it is worth discussing or i wouldnt be posting.

Thanks for the consideration.

Give a person a fish and feed them for a day.
Teach a person to fish and they will eat for life.
Teach a person to learn and they will learn to
teach.