“The Americans will always do the right thing… after they’ve exhausted all the alternatives”—Winston Churchill

So, if more than 50% of Americans believe Iraq had WMDs, and now 60% oppose the war/police action/occupation, does that mean there is at least 10% of the population that believes Iraq had WMDs and no longer cares?

I never was much good at statistics.

It’s about time.

Neon, that would appear to be the case, yes. I suppose you could also look at it as: They believed Iraq had WMDs, but feel the price we’re paying in the war is too great to continue pursuing it.

Is this even a war anymore?

I dont think its a war. Its a Vietnam. Yes, this ‘war’ is a bitchslaping contest. Its about not being able to blatantly communicate. Its about not being able to stand up to the real truth. Their Holy War, our oil security. Confusing? Of course! There is no clear reasons, no boundries. This war was made too confusing on purpose. But now, no one can see a clear reson for it so we are no longer for it.using59

The “war” ended when our president said it did, in front of a giant sign that said “Mission Accomplished!” Now it’s an occupation, working about as well as those usually do.

Call it what you want, we are still discharging weapons at each other. Still getting our asses kicked by the 12 year old kid that sets up boobie traps for our troops. What ever this is(war or occupation), it’s not done untill they give up or there is nothing left to control(WMD?). Mission Accomplished? What was accomplished? If Bush told you the world is flat, is it? The terrorist are still at it, so that means to me that nothing was accomplished.

Les: On the other hand it’s discouraging to realize they’re rather be smacked in the face by reality than listen to rational debate before resorting to military action.

Yeah. Bitch-slapped by reality ... into reality.

James: I don’t think it’s a war. It’s a Vietnam.

In Vietnam we had the ‘commie hordes from the north’ to contend with.
In Iraq there’s the 5th column within, to contend with.
Having said that, the current situation seems pointless.
Do we say ‘fuck this shit’ and pull out now?
That would seem to be the smartest option … but would it be honourable?
Reminds me of the CIA goading the Kurds towards rebellion against Saddam, without military assistance but plenty of promises, after the last ‘win’ over Iraq.
The Kurdish nation consists of over 20 million people in areas controlled by Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Syria.
“Any intervention that helped the Kurds set up an independent nation would disrupt U.S. relations with Turkey, an important client in the region.
Kissinger made his famous statement: One must not confuse the intelligence business with missionary work.”
On the one hand Iraqis are people who want life just as do we in the West; on the other hand, as Muslims, they all believe the Infidel (that’s us) must be converted or crushed and caste into the fire.
Mmm. What a dichotomy?
Part of me says: Fuck ‘em.
The other part of me is crying for the innocence of the innocents. 

The anonymous said once that domestic quarrels and wars are fought with the same logic.

We are given reasons for a fight. Small palpable reasons like a piece of bread that has been forgotten on the table, a toothpaste that has been squeezed a wrong way.

Of course those are reasons, but not the only ones. Not the real ones.

The real reasons are always hidden and emotional, and those reasons tend to be more profound.

Why don’t you love me anymore?
What has happened to us?

For every war there are also two set of reasons. The palpable and sensible ones (WMD’s in Iraq, Hizbollah rockets from Lebanon) and the hidden emotional ones. (Saddam was a pain in U.S. butt and we only waited for a reason to nail him, Israeli’s prime minister does not have a military background and his government is weak.)

It is sad how those unsaid emotional reasons tend to kill people, in domestic quarrels and in wars.

Well said LuckJohn19 and tniemi. But even those reasons for this war seems to a front for the powers that be. I dont believe that we will ever know what the real reasons are. Sadam, WMD’s, Osama, Oil, Intricate political leverage, and/or all of the above. Then again, maybe this is all part of natural selection. (Darwin’s: survival of the fittest) and we are all just finding our pecking order in a world that is becoming smaller and smaller.