les les les My friend you are an idiot dont you have anything better to do with your time. do you know what your probblem is? well one of the many you have no life and that sweety is a very very bad thing im sure that if you focused all of your energy on something like maybe a girl, job or better yet a life you might start getting somewhere in the mean time your an idiot you dont believe in god thats fine but if God decides to throw you in hell when you pass on to the next life you will have an eternity to think about it you have to relize that not everything in this world what it may seem to be but im sure one day you wake up and face reality do something better with your life you loser

What amuses me most about your response is the fact that it’s clear you’ve not read much of this website or you’d already know that I have a good paying job, a wife and a kid about to become a teenager. But, as is so common with folks like yourself, you continue to live in a little fantasy world where you think you’ve got everyone all figured out and anyone who doesn’t agree with you must be a loser with no life. Get a life? Hell, I’d like one that’s a little less busy at this point so I’d have more time to make fun of people like yourself.

You’d have saved yourself some embarrassment had you looked around the site a bit more before proclaiming me in need of a life, girl and job. But then I suspect facts aren’t your strong point. Spelling and punctuation certainly don’t seem to be.

less less less You dont have to lie to impress me i know you and your kind your not only an idiot but your also a loser you need not worry about my spelling my take on analyzing people etc they pale in comparison to the major head problems you have let me ask you? do you really believe your crap cause if you really do i feel for you man you are pathetic but on the bright side i will keep you in my prayers ttfn ps grow up man before you go insane with your crap

wow james youre so incredibly impressive that i am in awe of your intellect please show us all the way you are a beacon of hope to us poor lost lambs and we will surely give up our evil ways and head back to church in droves you have certainly convinced me and before you reply to this make sure you brush your teeth and get reday to go to bed young man tomorrow is a school day

It’s apparent to me that James is just another comment troll. I’ll be ignoring him from now on. Not much point, he’s not saying anything worth paying attention to anyway.

Yeah, I just wanted to see what it was like to be so lazy that punctuation and capitalization did not play a part in my sentence structure. Believe it or not it was hard to break out of the habit of using punctuation and capital letters.

If you don’t believe somewhere in your heart that there is a man in the sky waiting to love you but punish you when you’re wrong (much like a parent), then why does Kent Hovind bother you?
I think I can believe an animal possesed of Satan could talk before I can believe we came from rain falling on a rock. Did you know that in their attempts to recreate that same scenario they had to leave oxygen out of the mix? Think about that. May I advise a little more research before you take an innocent man on the internet and destroy him. Even if his message means nothing to you, there may be a child somewhere that gets ahold of your info before his. Would you be responsible for the suicide of a teen who felt as a child there was no reason to live?

How soon can you get back to me?

It has been a long time since high school science class but I seem to remember that the atmosphere of earth those millions of years ago was much higher in nitrogen than oxygen, and besides...if life began in the seas, most likely around volcanic vents, I doubt there would be much if any oxygen available way down there. How this would inspire a child to kill themselves is beyond me. But just for the record I strongly recommend against suicide, where’s the challenge in that?

wow...!! all the above was....very educational...I just want to ask anybody out there willing to answer...What or who or ??? is God?… Now everybody be neutral and objective.
Religious believers please pretend that the bible is a powerful tool but not an absolute truth...for there might not be any in this world.
And the scientific ones...just don’t be non-believers for a second. all this talk about God...wow !
Maybe all of you could agree on what god is or could be if he existed. And then expand on if it’s worth believing in him or not.

For my part I cannot help but hear the word LIFE everytime someone says God. I think of mother nature also. For these are the things we can’t fully change or fully manipulate....LIFE and NATURE changes and manipulates us over time.

Some religions have magic in them...some don’t.
I also know that religions are the biggest political groups of the world and as such they have and they continue to create in their name the biggest man made atrocities..( most wars )

My eyes are wide open and I have since long ago chosen a side that does not impose a set of rules for me to obey blindly.

I choose Evolution because that’s the only way we are going to get sensitive enough to make the right choices for our future generations.

Just spent the better part of the evening reading the entire saga!  I’ve got to agree with “Dave the Christian” that the arguments from the “believers” have really been all over the place (not to mention the punctuation and grammar), and I agree with his advice to go to the weightier contemporary thinkers like Ravi Zacharias, William Lane Craig, or Peter Kreeft. 

Have you had a chance to read anything by these writers, Les (or anyone else, for that matter).

Ciao for niao.

P.S.  It might not hurt to do a search-engine search on “Daniel 9:25”.

P.P.S.  James, take it somewhere else, please.

Well that was a big read.
Les, it’s good to know you have some morals and have a wife and kid.
You’ve read the Bible 4 times!??!??!? You must be an expert.
You won’t find it difficult to remember this passage then from Job 38:31(NKJV):
“Can you bind the cluster of Pleiades, Or loose the belt of Orion” (God speaking to Job)
Scientists have only recently found out that the 3 stars of Orion’s Belt travel at exactly the same speed (can you “loose the belt of orion”, NO) and that stars of Pleiades travel at random speeds in a cluster (can you “bind the cluster of pleiades” NO).
If the Bible is complete rubbish, how would someone 4000 years know about such a scientifically correct statement such as this.
Surely there had to be a greater knowledge to know such a thing. ie GOD
I’m expecting a backstabbing reply to this, and would love one. But try to reply on what i have actually talked about above. :D

Joe

Les�you are a madman.  Quite a rant� Very Stimulating

Interesting point �Down Under� Joe makes about Pleiades and Orion.  A few things puzzle me though.  When you mention the speed of the stars in Orion�s belt, what does �exactly the same speed mean� and what is that speed?  I couldn�t find anything that mentioned speed.  I did find this info online:

�The identification of these three stars as a belt is a very old one. The Arabic names of two of the stars reflect this: Mintaka means ‘the belt’ and Alnitak means ‘the girdle’. (The name of the third star, Alnilam, means ‘the string of pearls’.) It has been suggested that the three Belt-stars influenced the placing of the Pyramids at Giza, and it is certainly true that there is a remarkable correspondence of position between the Pyramids and the stars.�

http://www.glyphweb.com/esky/constellations/orionsbelt.html

If both constellations were observable in ancient times, which they apparently were, why would the statements in Job be revelations?  I do not intend to impugn your logic; I just want to understand where you�re coming from.

Do you appreciate the irony of the NKJV with God calling a constellation by the name of a character in heathen (Greek) mythology?

Let me get this straight Less, you have read you bible, cover to cover and this “ruined” your faith? That dosent add up. C.S. Lewis did the same thing and he had a change of hearth and became a Christian.
So if you could, please give me a list of what it was that ruined your faith. List the contradictions you found in the bible. (if any) I myself have read through the bible many times and evrytime i read a passage or a verse i always get somthing new out of it. so if you could tell me exacly why your faith was ruined when you read the bible cover to cover.

I thought this page was about the Extremely Knowledgeable, Tax-Evader, Field Marshall, Dr Kent Hovind, not about Les’ faith.  I don’t know about Les, but I can tell you where I sit. “Dr” Hovind lives just a few miles down the road from me and all the “good folk” at my wife’s church think he is the greatest thing since the first coming.  I don’t have any problem with people’s personal beliefs; Hovind can talk about creation and the Bible all day long.  I have a problem with a guy who uses a grade-school science book (and a bad one at that) and blatant lies to impugn the theories of real scientists.

The absurd statements Hovind makes about Darwin being the cause for what he perceives to be the moral decline of America, just floor me!  A member of the Southern Baptists has the balls to blame racism on an Englishman who wrote a racist book nearly 350 years after the first slaves were brought to this country?  The Southern Baptists, who became the Southern Baptists over their �God-given� right to own slaves?!  Can you say, �HYPOCRITE�?  How about �LIAR�?

I have read/browsed �The Origin of Species� and found very little �in that book� that indicates Darwin�s racism.  He almost exclusively discusses different varieties or �races� of plants and animals.  He makes brief mention of �savage� Negroes in Africa, but only to describe their knowledge of breeding domesticated animals.

Hovind quotes the year 1859 as the year Darwin published his �racist work�.  I see nothing in the book to lead me to believe that Darwin was the cause for racism and slavery in America.  Even if it was so, let�s step through this:

1.  First African slaves arrive in America in 1526
2.  Darwin is born in 1809
3.  Darwin publishes �Origin� in 1859
4.  The American Civil War starts in 1861
5.  The 13th Amendment to the Constitution �frees� slaves in 1865
5.  Laws in the South persecute Backs well into the 20th century

So somehow Darwin caused slavery and racism in America nearly 300 years before his birth?  If Hovind is the kind of guy you want representing you and your faith, I pity you.  By the way, Darwin was an ultra-racist, but the work that exposed that was �The Descent of Man� published in 1871.  It would lead me to believe that Hovind never read either of the books.

Let�s get our rants back on track!  Hey Christian guys, what is your opinion of charlatans like Kent Hovind? (hope I didn�t offend any charlatans by lumping them in with the likes of �Dr Dino�)

well since you ask, he isnt a charlatan..what ever that means. I find him to be a good man who knows alot about science. And the books he uses are not poor ones. some of the books he uses are in my grade school and high school today. ive looked up the pages and seen exactly what his seminars show. hes not making anyting up.
He does not “represent me” in my faith however. I just enjoy listning to his material and i have used some of it in papers that i have written ( information, figures stuff like that) Hes a good man who knows his stuff. and im proud to call him a brother in Christ

Let me get this straight Less, you have read you bible, cover to cover and this �ruined� your faith? That dosent add up. C.S. Lewis did the same thing and he had a change of hearth and became a Christian.

Why doesn’t it add up? Because some famous person had a change of heart from reading the Bible and I didn’t? I’m sure there’s more than one atheist who’s had a change of heart and become Christian after reading the Bible. I could just as easily point you to various Christians who followed the same path I did and became Atheists after reading the Bible. Hell, there’s even some clergy members who have switched to the dark side such as Dan Barker who wrote a book called Losing Faith In Faith: From Preacher To Atheist. Just because you can’t comprehend how someone might lose their faith after reading the Bible doesn’t mean it doesn’t add up.

So if you could, please give me a list of what it was that ruined your faith.

And my motivation for doing this would be… what, exactly? For your personal edification or amusement? To try and convert you? Because you have a sincere and deep-seated desire to know how I went astray?

List the contradictions you found in the bible. (if any)

If any? The contridictions in the Bible are numerous and already well documented, but contradictions by themselves aren’t to blame for my loss of faith. The work, as a whole, paints a picture of a God that, if I thought for a moment actually did exist, wouldn’t be the sort of entity I’d want to assocaite with. He’s insecure, self-centered, arrogant, insensitive, mean, dishonest and orders men to do acts of evil more despicable than anything any modern dictator such as the likes of Saddam has ever accomplished. As an instigator of mass-murder He is unrivaled in history. It came as no small sense of relief that I realized he was purely fiction.

I myself have read through the bible many times and evrytime i read a passage or a verse i always get somthing new out of it.

Yeah, I get something new out of it every time I read it as well and it just sickens me that much more each time. If it floats your boat, well, good for you.

so if you could tell me exacly why your faith was ruined when you read the bible cover to cover.

I’ve mentioned why in small part in this response as well in many other places throughout my website. Considering I find your motivations suspect I won’t take the time to elaborate further until I understand your reasons for wanting to know.

Les- im curiouse. im not trying to convert you. dont get me wrong, I would love to see you come back to Christ but its your choice. You have a free will.

But to answere your quesion: just curiouse i would like to know what ruined your faith.

oh, by the way, there is no proof that shows that evolution could be fact. there is no proff what so ever for it. but there is tons of proof that God created the World. if you woild like me to into that i would be glad to. just ask

well since you ask, he isnt a charlatan..what ever that means.

If you don’t know what the word means, then how do you know he isn’t one? Allow me to illuminate:

char�la�tan (sh�rl-tn)

noun

A person who makes elaborate, fraudulent, and often voluble claims to skill or knowledge; a quack or fraud.

And I’m afraid “Dr.” Kent Hovind qualifies for the title.

I find him to be a good man who knows alot about science.

I don’t know whether he’s a good man or not, but he doesn’t strike me as someone who knows a lot about science. You need only read through this very long chain of replies to see where I’ve already pointed out some of the ridiculous claims “Dr.” Kent Hovind has made that illustrate not only his lack of understanding of science, but of history and mathematics as well! The man’s a loon with an agenda who makes shit up as it suits his purposes.

And the books he uses are not poor ones. some of the books he uses are in my grade school and high school today.

Considering the abysmal test scores a lot of kids are receiving on national science tests the fact that he’s using the same text books are the ones in grade school and high school isn’t a resounding endorsement of his choice of materials. With all the monkeying around that the various States do to text books in part because of the efforts of nutjobs like Hovind trying to have nonsense such as Intelligent Design put into them it’s no wonder the material in them sucks.

ive looked up the pages and seen exactly what his seminars show. hes not making anyting up.

You have read his books, right? You asked me how I could have read the Bible and lost my faith as a result obviously because you have a hard time believing such a thing is possible. I have a hard time understanding how anyone can read an entire book by “Dr.” Kent Hovind and not realize he’s making a lot of shit up as he goes along. There are numerous sites on the Net that cover the ridiculous claims Hovind has made and how they have absolutely no basis in fact.

Scott S.

A charlatan is a person who makes false claims, incredible ones!  He is someone who claims to have more knowledge on a subject than he truly has.  For instance, I have a bachelor�s degree in computer science.  If I told people I was a �scientist� and started to lecture on aerodynamics, that could possibly make me a charlatan.  Certainly I know some things about aerodynamics, but I would be misrepresenting myself if I claimed a degree in the science of aerodynamics.

I could tell you that airplanes fly because of Bernoulli�s Principle, but that would not be true (though many people think it is).  Flight works off of some of the same principles that Bernoulli explained, but they don�t address basic issues like symmetrical airfoils and inverted flight.  Now I sound like I know what I�m talking about don�t I?  Are you gonna believe me (I�m a scientist) or look it up? 

Mr. Hovind�s misrepresentations are too numerous to list here, but here is an easy one to look up that you can not dispute.

Hovind says that crime rates are up 1000% since 1963.  Go to this website:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/cv2.htm

and you will see that violent crime rates have been going down dramatically for the last ten years.  Do you think he just can�t read or that maybe he is not presenting facts the right way?  By the way, you will notice that the site I gave you is the United States Justice Department.  That department is run by a gentleman named John Ashcroft, who happens to be a devout Christian (in case you doubt the source).

Hovind blames Darwin and evolution for spreading racism.  I clearly showed you that even if Darwin�s book, which was published in 1859, fueled racism, it can�t be denied that it was alive and well long before Chuck Darwin came around.  You also can�t deny that racism was encouraged by Christians (Mr. Hovind makes no mention of that).

I don�t mean to say that someone without a degree isn�t intelligent (whatever intelligence is).  The Wright Brothers invented the airplane and they were just bicycle mechanics! Do you know what really makes an airplane fly?  It�s called the Theory of Flight (and there is more than one theory!).  The computer you are using right now works on the Theory of Electron Flow (and there are competing theories on that).  You wouldn�t believe how many things that you take for granted (TV, radio, light) are theoretical.

The last time I checked, airplanes fly, electricity works, and we can see because of light.  If you don�t like a theory, so what�who cares�disregard it�pay it no mind�it works for me.  Just don�t make it out to be some work of the devil if it doesn�t agree with your world view.  And ask yourself, �What good is a thing that must be represented with a lie?�

Les- im curiouse. im not trying to convert you. dont get me wrong, I would love to see you come back to Christ but its your choice. You have a free will.

But to answere your quesion: just curiouse i would like to know what ruined your faith.

The book as a whole ruined it. Read this thread and some of my other entries on religion and it shouldn’t be too hard to pick up on my reasons.

oh, by the way, there is no proof that shows that evolution could be fact. there is no proff what so ever for it.

If you’re using “Dr.” Kent Hovind as your sole source on evolution then I can see why you’d say that, but when you actually sit down and start digging through the papers published by scientific journals under peer review you’ll suddenly find there’s mountains of evidence in support of evolution. Hell, right in this VERY THREAD I provide a link to an article titled 29 evidences in support of macro evolution that provides just a sample of the proof. Do I have to come over and read it to each of you people before you’ll take the time to look at it? I’ve said it before and apparently I need to say it again: ENTIRELY NEW FIELDS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY THAT ARE MAKING MAJOR ADVANCES IN MEDICINE, FORENSICS AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE IF EVOLUTION WERE NOT TRUE BECAUSE EVOLUTION IS THE FUCKING FOUNDATION THOSE FIELDS ARE BASED ON!

For crying out loud, evolution is regarded as the CORNERSTONE of the science of biology! But hey, I suppose if evolution isn’t fact then we should disregard all those DNA tests that put lots of criminals behind bars and released a lot of innocent men who had been wrongly imprisoned for crimes they didn’t commit. I propose that you be the one to send them the letters indicating this change of heart and their subsequent return to freedom/imprisonment. The criminals are gonna love you, but I don’t think those innocent dudes are going to be too happy. Probably should discontinue the study of biology and medicine and just go back to drilling holes in people’s heads to let the evil spirits out.

but there is tons of proof that God created the World. if you woild like me to into that i would be glad to. just ask

I would love to hear any evidence you have for the idea that a God or Gods created the world. If you’re just going to repeat the writings of “Dr.” Kent Hovind, however, then don’t bother as I’ve already read some of his books and it should be obvious I don’t feel he makes a compelling argument.

I’d like to point out something to do with the
argument back about quarter-way in. Don’t know if anyone else mentioned this but two major ways the bible contradicts itself:

1): Dinosaurs.
There is no mention of such awesome beasts in the bible, and for good reason. The men who wrote the bible would not have known of them. Yet surely if we were all created in a week they would have been seen. But no, only their bones, the youngest dating back to about 65 million years ago. Anyway the only explanations I’ve heard for dinosaurs from creation literalists is:
1) Their bones were placed in the ground to help test our faith. Yeah, whatever.
2) There were other worlds created before ours, but they didn’t pan out. The problem is, how could such an awesome superior being have design flaws that he needed to scrap?

(An interesting sidenote: Satan could only have rebelled against a perfect creator if he had free-will. The point of God creating Man after his angelic host was that humans could love him with their free will. Satan could only rebel if he was compelled by God to. That implies (some Jewish philosophers known as Kabalahists have said this to) that God is not all-good but actually a kind of yin-yang of Good and Evil. The origin of Evil is with him. This is definitely an impression I get of the Old Testament. The New Testament is kind of like a hippified version of the Old but that’s my own opinion and can’t be bothered to back that up.)

If anyone suggests that dinosaurs died in the floods of Noah, remember there were all sorts of dinosaurs that were either water-based or were amphibious such as many of the sauropods.

2) Despite consistencies in evolutionary theory, it is a lot better explanation of man than the idea we are all the children of Adam and Eve. For one thing our blood would be so thin by this stage we would be hundreds of times more inbred than the so-called mountain men found in backwater parts of the USA. Also there were only two children,the brothers Cain and Abel. I once heard there was supposedly a daughter Abel would not have been able to have had incestious relations to her due to the inconvenience of being dead and Cain was a pariah. In fact there is already mention of communities of people he would have to stay away from, due to his kinslayer mark. 

Oh, another point there were three sons of Noah, each for the three races found during the time of the writing of the bible: the Semites (Arab and Jew, the Caucasian (Greek, Romans) and African (North Africans especially although the Romans later ventured into Sub-Saharan Africa). The Semites and Caucasian i think were meant to be seen as similar. The third son was turned black after doing something naughty, as a mark. This by the way, is an example of how religion can be used to justify racist views. Science admittedly has been used for it in the past, but it’s more difficult to get away with within the scope of it’s doctrines. Anyway, what about the asian people, the aboriginals and mongolians? The time the bible was written, there was no way for those writing it to havbe known these other races existed. They don’t feature because of human limitations though if one takes the bible literally as handed down by God, this is a big contradiction. The only suggestion I can think of was they were created later, which seems both racist and contradicts the idea that Noah and his sons would have the honour of repopulating the globe.

Conclusion: Anyone who ignores these facts and continues to view themselves as creationists (in the literal sense) are moronic. There may be a God, but not using your “God” goven brains to believe in stories that make sense thousands of years ago but no longer means you are not only failing to reach your potential but you are part of the reason the world we live in today is a hostile and dangerous environment for many of it’s people. That blindness in thought makes you dangerous to the rest of us, so if you have nothing intelligent to say or are going to repeat redundant remarks, we have no more time for you or your metaphorical crap.

where do you get this stuff, the word dinosaur was not invented untill...1930? i think thats right. Either way it dosent matter. The word dinosaur was not around when the King James Version was put into print. so the word would not be in the bible. BUT the word dragon is, it is not only in the bible but in other cultures writings as well. there are numbers of “dragon” storys all over the world. And as far as the ones that lived in the water...God told Noah only to take the animals who lived on land(which means no fish, or water dinos)

THe bones in the ground? they were the ones that died in the flood. they were “in” the ground because when the water ran off it picked up tons of dirt and burried them. thats aslo why they find huge human skelitons when they dig mines. They died in the flood. You know they find trees standing up under tons of rock...runing through layers of rock. dont you think in millions of years they would rot? ive seen them myself.

The angles had free will, they are just not redemable as people are. Satan made a choice, he lost.

2)ITs hard for you to beleive that we all came from adam and eve, but evolution teaches that we all date from a rock. thats easier to beleivie?
Adam was created perfect, eve was created perfect. so that means there DNA was perfect and evrything matched up. yes the only way for there children to have children was to intermarry. But you have to remember that laws agenst marrying your own sister was not set untill the law of Moses. But because the DNA was perfect in the begining there were no errors in the genetic code(try making a copy of a copy of a copy and see how it turns out if you want to explain why the DNA has errors in it, God didnt make it that way)

AND i dont see where you get the three races three sons thing, maybe that came from a raceist wanting to explain why there were diffrent colors among people. The accual reason for the diverse colors among the human race is beacause over the thousands of years the genetic code as gone as far as it can.  people bred dogs for years to get a chawowa (that isnt spelled right) you cant go any farther then that, people are the same way. theres not difference except for the skin (which is a stupid reason to divide people up)
Yes ill admit that some Christians are racist ill admit that. But thats not all. I get real tired of people nit picking at The church and when they find one person (or group) with in the church they say “OHHH they arnt good, look what they do! All Christians are bad because these people do this” ITs hate if i would say somthing like that about a buddest or an aithiest, but its ok when its about Christians, why is that? can some one answere that for me?

Scott S. 

Try to follow me here bro� and look at this from my perspective.  I�m walking down the street (metaphorically) minding my own business, when this semi-truck named Kent Hovind comes up and blames racism on Darwin.  Well that just blew me away, so I felt I had to comment on that.  Remembering that there was racism in this country several hundred years before Darwin, I pointed out that racism was established practice in many churches.  It�s not like I got up and just said, �Christians are responsible for all racism�ALL of them suck!�

I pointed out the lie that Mr. Hovind told and an incredible lie at that, since the very church he belongs to came into existence because they felt slavery was ordained by God.  Look at Hovind�s statements and tell me if you think what he says is the whole truth.  If it was evolution only, why did the Southern Baptists issue a formal apology in 1995 for fostering slavery and racism?  Do you think they just wanted to take the blame for Darwin?  What considerate souls.

Scot,
you’re theory on how dinosaurs (or dragons if you prefer) still does not explain how come many species of dinosaurs who had no problem with water or floods, such as the brontosaur, died out. Many sauropods needed to be on land to lay eggs or mate but they were quite happy to swim around all day and consumed their food from variety of water plants. There were also many species of sauropods that had no legs but flippers and spent all their time in water. These incredible dinosaurs died out, but I’m afraid a flood had nothing to do with it. Actually scientists found evidence of a meteor the size of (if i remember correctly) a small island (i.e. a big island being australia).

You see, Scott, the people who are actually qualified to search for bones of animals and give an estimate when time of when they died, have found there is a GREAT length of time separating different dinosaurs from each other. In other words some dinosaur ("dragon") species went extinct before others. Also humans and dinosaurs have never been found to live in the same era.

Now, my point: even if you disagree the world is more than 200 million years old (somewhere in the billions actually) even if you disagree that there is about a 65 million year gap between dinosaurs and humans, you must give these experts enough credit to accept that when huge amounts of dinosaurs died off, it was not at the same time (i.e. the forty days) as vast amounts of humans died. these experts know this because each level of rock comes from it’s own era.

Also, Scott, we have never found the fossilised remains of a huge number of humans who died at the same time as would have happened if your theory on how dinosaurs all died out in the floods along with all humans. What this means is that there is no evidence to support your theory, NONE. This means your theory cannot be accepted.

Also, while there is mention of dragons in various cultures, they are very few in number. There is never a mention of the world being populated with them. Cultures could develop a theory on dragons from finding the odd dinosaur bone, but I’m sure that if the large numbers of fossils that have been found indicate anything, it is that there was a time that dinosaurs (dragons) existed in HUGE numbers. Something worth mentioning if it were an issue in the bible? It wasn’t an issue because by the time people were writing the bible, there were no dinosaurs left, unless you consider the crocodile a survivor of the dinosaur age.

I realise it is fruitless arguing with someone who will find a reason to believe something he really wants to believe, and there is no argument that can disprove the existence of God. But there are many that do disprove the version of how we came to exist that is found in Creationism. You cannot justify it, I’ve already dismantled your theory on how dinosaurs can fit into the bible.

And another misconception: we did not evolve from rocks, we evolved from microbes (a rock is unlife, but microbes are alive) that existed on rocks or were living on rocks.
It doesn’t matter though Scott, BECAUSE even if the theory of evolution was shown to be useless, it doesn’t mean that is justification for beinging in creationism, which actually makes no sense. no sense, you say? yes because of contradictions in it that show it was man-made, prone to error, not the documentation of a flawless creator. I’ve already demonstrated a big contradiction, the dinosaur, your response was inadequate. Please don’t repeat the same argument unless you have something more to add, something else I can dismantle for you.

Oh, by the way, it doesn’t mean I’m really smart or anything (i.e. arrogant). Thats just a little disclaimer because some of you Creationist Freaks think having an opinion different to yours is arrogant, from what I have seen from some previous responses.
The argument you proposed is something an eight-year old could find problems with and argue against.

antman- the reasong you dont find huge amounts of human skeletons in one area ( all drowed at onece) is because humans arnt stupid. they grab floating trees or whatever they can find that floats. so when they drownded they wernt burried they rotted in the water or were eaten buy the water dinosaurs. but you do find some in the ground that is a fact. the reason that some dinosaur bones are found to be older than others is because carbon dating dosent work. you cant find anything from a bone except that the animal it belong to died. Carbon dating works of the assumtion that the amount of carbon is in equlibrium. it isnt. living mollusk shells have been dated back to millions of years (obviously wrong) You dont find huge “mass graves” of dinosaurs because most of them were burried and were squeezed to oil. it dosent take millions of years to do that (i dont remember how long it accually takes but scientists can do in in a lab in a few minits)

If people and dinosaurs never lived together how come they find human footprints with dinosaur footprints? the find them side by side and in many cases the human footprint UNDER the dino footprint. Explain that if you please.
as far as dinos in the bible. Read Job, God makes may refrences to them as well as the springs in the sea(which science did not know about till well into the 20th century), orions belt and many ohter htings that science didnt know about till out century

where did the microbs come from?
and how do they know what era the rock comes from? how do they date them?

oh and by the way...the brontosaur may be tall, but he wasnt that tall. The water went well above his hight (i dont remember how high)

As you said, it is fruitless to argue with someone who will believe what he wants.

and one other thing: I dont remember how it was but someone was saying somthing about people like me are the reason for the violence and evil on the planet well if your an aithiest (oh humanist) who are you to decide what is good and what is evil? what standard are you using? Think through your world veiw. You dont have a source to say what is good about somthing (or someone) or what is bad.

and i never said darwin alone was responsible for racism and neither did hovind, darwin was an amplifyer of it but did not cause it.

Just thought id throw those two side notes in there