heh heh Just for fun, I looked up the definition of root-bound after I submitted the remark above. I modified it a bit (a lot) to work for Christianity and this is what I got:

When a person grows for too long within a religion’s exact and immutable doctrines, he or she generally becomes thought-bound. With no allowances for oppositional considerations, his or her thoughts become tangled and formatted, and he or she thinks in circles.

Thought-bound persons, while positioned within the greater social environment, often refuse to comprehend choked, exclusionary thought processes. This results in stunting of potential critical thinking skills, and suppression of the over-all capability of the conditionally interacting persona.

All this from a definition of “root-bound”!
I don’t know. Maybe it needs more work.

hey there…

Agnostics… I was told once that Agnostics have no religion but believe in God…

Stupid people…

But anyone can be spiritual, spirituality has nothing to do with God

“Agnostics… I was told once that Agnostics have no religion but believe in God...”

That’s a Deist.

Agnostics don’t believe or disbelieve in a god(s). But, they’re usually grouped with atheists due to the fact that they don’t belong to any religion or hold a belief in a god or gods. In fact, because atheist really means “without god”, I guess you could technically call them atheists. I think it’s used more to separate them from the atheists who believe that there is definately not a supreme being.

The latest polls put that figure closer to 73% currently and losing approx. 1% per year still.

Of that 73% I seriously doubt much more than 50% “Really” believe such tripe, many are forced into it, and have it thrust into their face to the point where they just go along with it to calm the savage Christian that would flip out & disown them if they said anything. Then again maybe I just cant believe that many people in the USA really ARE that completely out of touch with reality.

It’s actually human nature to want to help your fellow man etc., It HAS NOTHING whatsoever to do with Christianity.

Im quite certain someone like Mother Teresa would have done exactly everything she did anyway, if there were no such thing as Religion or she could have been a full blown Atheist that was just her humanity showing.

Religion does not make you a good person, if you think that then you have been cut off from reality.

Religion does not impart morality onto anyone, that’s a natural attribute of simply being human. Atheist are every bit as moral, every bit as good hearted, every bit as willing to reach out and help, the only difference is an Atheist wont put a caveat on their feelings, an Atheist wont have a hidden agenda, an Atheist is far less likely to NOT reach out and help a fellow human for reasons that are generally purely religious in nature, such as Racism, for being different, believing different.

Atheist don’t have that fictitious deity to kowtow to, an Atheist helps a fellow human simply because he’s human, we know we are all here for a short time, we don’t have some get outa death free card, some deity that doesn’t exist to supposedly tell us what to do, we do what we do because it’s intrinsically ingrained, not because some pie in the sky religion or super parent is telling us to.
We accept REALITY for what it is and face it, we inform ourselves about the world around us with REAL empirical, tangible factual information that is Falsifiable thus verifiable.
Atheist do not believe in fairytales, and follow fables and parables written 1000s of years ago by ancient civilizations using what was at the time a societal norm then, as our reason for living in the 21st century.
We know that is what humans “believed” then, because they didn’t know any better, they didn’t know where Earthquakes came from, that has been answered, they didn’t know where lightning came from, that has been answered, what causes diseases, answered, what causes eclipses, answered, how old the Earth is, answered, etc. etc. etc. and on & on.

These questions the human animal had no answers to 1000s of years ago they “imagined” in their “mind” must have had a “Super-Natural” or Mystical, magical answer or meaning.

Today these answers for those of us that can face reality, that have not been infected with this debilitating mind plague are fully aware come from Science using the Scientific method to garner the REAL TRUTH about what is, what isn’t, why & how.
What HAS answered ALL these questions by ancient humans? Was it GOD that said Oh yeah BTW that Earthquake is caused by the shifting of tectonic plates? NO
As a matter of fact gods answer to that was “IT WAS ME”, sorry but your Lord Parent is full of shit.

These REAL answers are in general, diametrically opposed to what all too many humans on this planet’s Lord Parent has taught them, be they any of the 22,000 sects of Christianity, however many sects of Judaism, Islam, etc. ALL religions are the same, they all perform the same function.
The strange thing is that they are ALL WRONG & approx. 2/3s of this planet in one way or another and to varying degrees are infected with what amounts to be nothing but pure Mythology that festers into a Mind Plague, that destroys its hosts thinking and reasoning mind, thus throwing all logic right out the window in favor of nothing but a Faith, in some Belief, of some fictitious non existent Lord Parent, that ancient human culture & society imagined into being the *catch all answer for everything unexplainable*.

You can pray till your hands fall off, its not going to really change ANYTHING, but doesn’t matter, because you THINK it will and that’s good enough, The MIND controls everything, its a very powerful tool, its both an aid & a liability at the same time, that is intrinsic to the human animal through Evolution, we have evolved this intelligence as a defense, as our natural selection that has overall helped us a species survive, we can through our intelligence manipulate nature to provide us with medicines to prolong our lives, we can create our own environment with housing we heat or cool so we can survive anywhere on the planet, etc.

BUT we as a species have come to a crossroads, where sometime within the next few hundred years as a species in order to survive we are going to have to start accepting FACTUAL REALITY, I say this because we have a portion of the planet (about 1/3) that has moved on beyond the cultural norms of believing in fairytales & fables, following the advice of ancient mythological beings.
This portion of society has grown out of that “5 year old viewpoint” of what life is, how it is why it is, we have accepted “Factual reality” and its not that bad to grow up as a species, the human animal is very young, as a species we have only been on this planet a few million years, geologically that’s about like being 5-10 years old as a species.
That’s why we have so many on this planet still wanting to cling to that Lord Parent protector, yet a good 1/3 of us have moved on past that and growing up, we have accepted reality, just like you did when you accepted that Santa Claus wasn’t real, or the Tooth Fairy.

All religion does in the long run is turn humans against humans for stupid, silly, completely fictitious, man made, mythological reasons.

Look at the Catholics Vs the Protestants, Christians Vs Muslims.

The reason there are 22,000 some odd different sects of Christianity in the first place, is that NOBODY really has a clue that what they ALL are really looking at is nothing but a book of Parables.
The entire Bible was initially never meant to be taken as REAL.

It has been Misinterpreted over & over countless times, now why would you think that a supposedly inerrant word of God be interpreted 1000s of different ways? How you might ask is that even possible?
Leaving each and every different sect that ignorantly believe that THEIR sect is the TRUE, the one and ONLY TRUTH?
Meanwhile all the rest are abominations, because even though there are 22,000 different sects you see only ONE can be right, because the Bible is infallible, the Bible cant be wrong, for some odd reason that is about the one and only thing all the 22,000 sects actually agree on.
This is where the “Divisiveness” begins, this is where the brain starts it’s obsession.

Anytime a human has a “strongly held belief” threatened, the brains natural self defense mechanism kicks in “Cognitive Dissonance”.
Religion becomes an obsession, the more Religious you are the more obsessed you become, the more obsessed you become the more important this “belief” becomes.
With religion this belief will generally take over your entire life, quite often making IT the most important THING in your life, such is the NATURE of an OBSESSION.
How many times have you heard some deeply religious nut when asked “What is important, or comes first in your life”?
Without a seconds hesitation even with this zealots spouse &or children sitting right there, what do you more often than not hear?

“JeeesaaaSuuuSaa” or “my lord and savior Jesus Christ” etc.

Now to me that just sickens me to no end, that poor deluded human needs desperately to be yanked up right then and there and forcibly Deprogrammed back to REALITY.

This person you can be certain has lost all grip on reality, has become absolutely obsessed with this fictitious father figure that doesn’t really exist in a physical sense, just in their MIND.

Now once a person gets this messed up, this obsessed, in what they believe to be completely real, totally infallible, absolute truth.
Then when they hear anything that does not agree with their obsession, they can and all to often will become militant in their defense of this cognition.
It becomes not much if any different than someone attacking your Mother, you will jump all over them in instant defense. That is inherent to being human, it’s a natural reflex.

The BIG difference is your Mother is REAL, your “Belief” is just in your MIND, but it makes no difference, because that obsession has become real to YOU. It doesn’t matter how wrong it is, how absurd it is, how much hard tangible empirical evidence there is that clearly shows your obsession to be pure mythology, to be just a figment of an active imagination, because to you its just as real as your mother sitting there.

Such is the Mind Plague called Religion, now your religion, your “relationship” with this fictitious father figure gets attacked in whatever manner, be it by other zealots saying your father is wrong, theirs is right, or that your father has said that Gays are an abomination and are to be despised to be treated as less than human because they are going to hell.
Or maybe your father/religion has told you other races of people are not to be trusted because they will lead you away from me, and my teachings, and you know son that I would not lead you away from heaven, so you MUST distrust these other races.
Many times this distrust turns into HATE.

It would really be the same as your REAL parent instilling in you their belief that Gays are bad, Blacks are bad, etc.
Except as a general rule you stop believing that your REAL parent is some knowing all, does all, supplies all, can defeat all, can protect you against anything, super human, by the time you are about maybe 5 years old.
Now your “Lord Parent” has taken over that role that made you feel so safe as a child, this lord parent can do all, is all, was all, will heal you, help you, feed you, clothe you, and all you have to do is “pray” to him.

The perfect parent/child relationship.

Yet is only in your Mind.

This is why Religion is a diabolical insidious Mind Plague.
It is NOT real, it does NOT make you a better human being, I will not save you from anything especially death.
In some people it is almost dormant, in many others it is extremely debilitating even contagious.
In ALL humans it only serves as the most divisive behavior the human animal has against it, without it we would all be much more tolerant towards our fellow humans, be much more willing to accept factual reality & scientific fact thus move on as a growing species.

Authoritarian social control (religion) has brought humanity to its present most dangerous condition, an explosive mixture of over-population, mass ignorance, anger, frustration and power mongering, where the technological ability to destroy a planet comes under the control of people with essentially the mind-set of savages.

This is the scary part, we have scientist which have for years broken out of that primitive ignorance that society in general tries to impose upon them, this is why we have the technological advances we do today most are harmless, many very helpful such as medications etc. but there are also the areas of science that have brought into light very destructive forces such as all the various WMD be they Chemical, Biological, Nuclear created by those on a higher level of Consciousness , which is handed to what amounts to humans with no more base intelligence (George Bush) than that poor deluded human several thousand years ago whom perceived that thunder storm that just rumbled though his campsite as a sign of some supernatural Godman that�s pissed & hurling thunderbolts at him for reasons he can only imagine.

I have passed Les on the same road road coming from the opposite direction.  I was for many many years a card carrying atheist ready to defend my position with logic and intellect at anytime, anyplace.  But was redirected through independent observation of the natural world and concluding that nonintelligent design theories left too many holes in the fabric of the continuity of life.  Left on their own ... all things tend toward chaos.

For the sake of my addition, let’s segment some terms I see being bundled seamlessly on this site by apologists of atheism.

Ascribing to theism does not mean a person is “religious.” Religion is of human origin and is therefore vulnerable to human corruption, power playing and all the flaws that hallmark the human condition. 

Believing there is a spiritual realm that mingles, coexists and affectually impacts with the natural world, should not be read as a kneejerk reaction to fear nor ignorance; but rather as an admission that not all things that have occurred during the long march of human developement can be explained in strictly natural terms.  In order to prove this statement, one need only go to the nearest hospital and ask the chief of staff if any nonscientific, unexplained phenomena has ever occurred at that facility… and then just listen.

Personal faith in a loving parent figure is NOT a sign of weakness, but a sign that one is seeking a method for healing, (hopefully) in order to reach their full potential.

That evil has been, is and will be purpetrated in the name of religion and even using God as a vengeful resource is factual and deplorable, but should also be weighed against the truth that throughout history some extraordinarily fine institutions, founded on faith, have been developed and maintained to engage and aid all peoples.  This list includes most major universities, hospitals and aid distribution organizations.  In contrast, atheism has never been highlighted by its benevolent posturings.  I read that the largest nonprofit endeavor contributed to by those who identify themselves as atheist, is the search for extraterrestrial life.  Interesting.

That people have died at the hands of self-righteous zealots who live more for self that the god they purport to represent gives no atheist comfort that his/her belief foundation is without carnal blemish.  Joseph Stalin, Adolph Hitler, Mao Tse Tung and Pol Pot, the biggest butchers of all time, all adherents to Darwinian philosophy, felt not only justification for their actions, but obligation.  We are all, afterall, human with motivations, urges and foilables.

I understand the disappointment with evangelical institutions and the desire to distance oneself from the mindless pageantry and rote symbolistic activities associated with organized religion, but to use this as evidence for the propagation of atheistic dogma is not arguing against the strongest proof that human beings do not exist independent of a supernatural force.  Ask any astronomer what the odds are that a satellite would rotate on its axis at the precise rate to expose the same face to its host as it revolves around it throughout history, and they will tell you, “Zero.” I believe the moon is the symbolic thumbprint of God.

It was suggested that Mother Teresa would still have been helping the sickest and poorest in India even if she had been an atheist.  This is very short-sighted and baseless.  One need only read her own writings to find the destiny-changing source of power that was driving this woman. 

In the same respect, when one gives total consideration to how this world would have shaken out if no one had ever been motivated by a loving God and the need to serve that God, one need only watch an episode of “Survivor.” This is faithless humanity doing what it naturally will do if given the opportunity.  No one is overtly harmed...... but neither does anyone win, except the strongest, most adept and most ruthless.

I know I will get blasted for this entry.... that’s OK, I know who I am.  But if someone who is “on the fence” reads these words, perhaps they won’t feel alone when they say, “But… I feel something must distinguish me from the animals and plants that also live on this planet and yet contain life within their form.”

I believe we are all closer than we would like to admit.  Just substitute “Darwin” for “Moses”, “The Origin of Species” for “Bible” and “time” (the method for counting our existence which if not invented by man would have had to have been) for “God” and our faiths are not so distant. 

Rules without relationship begs rebellion.  Our source of life seeks relationship.... not rules.

Ron,

You obviously need to spend a little more time on this site to understand what most atheists “believe”. Atheism is NOT a religion and most atheists don’t contribute their time and money to charitable causes (as I do) in the “name of atheism”.

You think that Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot are the biggest butchers of all time? If you believe the Bible, I believe that title would go to the God they describe therein.

Regarding the moon being the symbolic thumbprint of God, and the odds of its synchronistic movement as compared to earth - I suggest you take a few more astronomy classes.

Ron, Mother Teresa may not be the best example.  Recently released personal letters and interviews paint a rather different picture - more like a person driven by obsession than empowered by divine strength. 

For the last several decades of her life she felt abandoned by God and worked ever harder to return to the feeling she had for a couple weeks following her vision on that train.  It was like a religious post-traumatic-stress-disorder.

Aww, geez, now I’m goin’ to hell.  Oh, wait… there isn’t any!!!