(’the Owner’, Rob, is Les… he’s that guy up on the top of this page.  Trying to make him sound like some imperious impersonal dictatorial force doesn’t really make anyone more likely to listen to the rest of what you have to say.)

Actually, within the confines of this discussion, i switched from the name “Les” to the lable “Onwer” because it does sound impersonal, yet it also emphasizes exactly what Les’ role is in regards to the site.  Some people questioned my understanding of that relationship, albeit rhetorically (i hope!).  Thus, i started using the lable “Owner” for the siteowner named Les.

Case in point…

As for whether or not Les should have added his say?  It’s Les’ site.  Says so right on the label…

Well, yes, i do happen to know that.  ;-]
Yet, i think it is a poor defense.  We should at least have an illusion of egalitarianism—or the goal of such.  The methods used by the Owner (note my understanding of Les’ role) suggested that no such equality existed.

The mere suggestion of such should’ve been avoided.
That’s what i’m saying.

(sorry, i forgot to mention a final point...)

Grey’s likely scheme was to suggest/demonstrate that just such a biased inequality existed on this site. 
And the Owner, i believe, walked into that trap.

We should at least have an illusion of egalitarianism—or the goal of such.

1.  Who-um “we,” Paleface?

and

2.  Why?

rob- what GM said.  This is getting kind of boring.  Les has explained in detail why he did what he did, and you keep hammering away with this notion that he should have done otherwise.  Are you waiting for a formal apology from Les or what?  He did what he did, on his blog, and you didn’t like it.  Life goes on.

1.  Who-um “we,” Paleface? and
2.  Why? (- GeekMom)

GM, you’re cracking me up
I think objectivity is one of those “well-intentioned” non-virtues that everyone mistakes for virtue.

I don’t think .rob is out of line for stating what he hopes to find in the way of objectivity here at SEB and I’m more in agreement than disagreement with him overall. I do make it a point to be as even handed and fair as I can be, but I also reserve the right to make judgment calls about how to run things at SEB as the owner of the site.

With an experiment like allowing anyone to submit guest posts I’m doing something that (as far as I’m aware) very few other bloggers are doing so there’s bound to be decisions I make that’ll piss a few people off as I work out the best way to do things.

Late, as always.

Rob, can you please give it a rest? You have expressed your personal preference, but it’s up to Les to run this site any way he pleases.

We should at least have an illusion of egalitarianism—or the goal of such.

1.  Who-um “we,â€? Paleface?
and
2.  Why?

(For those of you not yet bored...)
1) The “we” is humanity.
2) Why?  Because there is long-term, even short-term, value in allowing for the free, equal-footed exchange of opinions between people.  The type of values discussed on this site, and many others out there, are the type of things that move the world.  As individuals this is often hard to grasp.  The eye of a storm is very quiet.

I believe many of our civilization’s ills could well be solved by just such a type of forum.  I also believe that, putting on my Hari Seldon hat, that the forums i’m describing (allowing for the exhange of ideas on equal-footing), that certainly do exist on the web in various shades, will one day be considered instrumental in many of the achievements our civilization will witness in the next few centuries.

Sometimes things change far faster than any of us could possibly imagine.  The web, and its forums, and its role as a medium for the free flow of ideas and opinions across so many different oft segregated demographics, will (i believe) transform how we conduct ourselves amongst each other—in profoundly good ways.  Intimacy with mutual respect breeds civility, but most importantly, civility based upon empathy.

This is getting kind of boring.

Then why are you still reading this ?

Rob, those are good points in general, but I suspect if Les thinks you’re trying to intimate that his blog will change the world, he might well panic and close up shop.

I’ve seen a lot of communities on the ‘net in 20 years, and the good ones stay that way only until they reach a critical mass of members, at which point the statistics favor the incursion of, shall we say, less mature and articulate contributors.  Then the site melts down and the members wander off in search of a smaller, as yet undiscovered meeting place.

What I do see with the advent of blogging is that the comment space on blogs is slowly taking the place of regular forums, and I think it’s being confused with them.  Some blogs, by nature of their popularity and the intelligence of their regular commenters, take on a more public stance, but that’s only with the express consent and effort of the Owner.  I don’t think it’s fair to try to put Les’s blog up on a pedestal and then complain when it topples off.  Yes, Les makes a real effort to be evenhanded, and that’s to his credit; I consider that a bonus that makes his particular blog worth reading.  But he’s never going to be “fair enough” in everyone’s eyes, and I don’t think he should strive for that; it’ll stifle what I think makes him worth reading.

IMFO. 

(exit GeekMom stage left, pursued by snoring.)

rob said: The “we� is humanity.

So Les is now responsible to humanity as a whole to run his site as you see fit?  Who are you to decide what we need? Take some time and start your own blog.

GM- what you said.  But why do you characterize your opinion as “feeble”?

I’ve seen a lot of communities on the ‘net in 20 years, and the good ones stay that way only until they reach a critical mass of members, at which point the statistics favor the incursion of, shall we say, less mature and articulate contributors.  Then the site melts down and the members wander off in search of a smaller, as yet undiscovered meeting place.

I’m a firm believer in egalitarian direct democracy, no matter where in our lives.  Egalitarianism on the Web, just like in civil government (such as my town’s townmeeting/selectmen style of government), sometimes faces a crush of numbers.  Similiarly, as you mention, the same type of thing can happen on forum/blog sites. But, i’d argue that if this right were pervasive enough on the web it wouldn’t so often be abused, and people would gravitate to sites of their interests.  In the meantime, there are practical solutions to managing the base and bile that come with any mass of people: decentralising authority.

Again, i believe that this notion should be applied everywhere in our lives where multiple individuals are concerned, not just forums.  Where one has right all should have right.

What I do see with the advent of blogging is that the comment space on blogs is slowly taking the place of regular forums, and I think it’s being confused with them.

Yes, people are messy like that, wanting to go express themselves in all sorts of places we never intended.  And i think it’s beautiful. Dialogue is always messy and always beautiful. :-]

I don’t think it’s fair to try to put Les’s blog up on a pedestal and then complain when it topples off.

I’ve believe that the CityOnTheHill ideal is something that we, as individuals, can apply everwhere in our lives.

...Take some time and start your own blog.

As another matter of principle, i tend to try and do things as much as possible from scratch.  So, give me a day or so.

Don’t take this as an attempt to get rid of you, .Rob, but I think the idea of you starting a blog is a good one for a number of reasons.

While I commonly find that I don’t agree with everything you say—you’re the first liberal in a long time to make me think I might actually be a conservative in comparison—I do agree with some of it and it’s clear you have a passion for expressing your thoughts. You certainly wouldn’t be without things to write about and I think you’d probably attract a following fairly quickly.

I’m also interested to see how you handle the challenges that come with the act of running a blog. Not to imply it’s brain surgery, but there’s actually a lot more thought put into what I write and what I approve and what I say in my comments than might be apparent in the final product. You have some very interesting ideas on how things should be done and I think it would be quite enlightening to see you put them into practice and find out what the outcome ends up being. I’ll even help you get set up and drive some traffic your way to get you started if you’d like. I’m very curious to see what you come up with.

There is precedent for what Rob has in mind - Wikis. 

I call my own thing a flog (Forum bLOG), by the way.