Humanists launch Godless holiday campaign - FOX News mocks it.

Posted by Les on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 at 05:33 PM. Read 1891 times. Tags: , , , , ,
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I’ve gotten quite a few emails today about a American Humanist Association press release about a new bus campaign they’ve launched in Washington D.C.. Here’s one news item on the topic from HometownAnnapolis.com:

You better watch out. There is a new combatant in the Christmas wars.

Ads proclaiming, “Why believe in a god? Just be good for goodness’ sake,” will appear on Washington, D.C., buses starting next week and running through December. The American Humanist Association unveiled the provocative $40,000 holiday ad campaign Tuesday.

[...] “We are trying to reach our audience, and sometimes in order to reach an audience, everybody has to hear you,” said Fred Edwords, spokesman for the humanist group. “Our reason for doing it during the holidays is there are an awful lot of agnostics, atheists and other types of non-theists who feel a little alone during the holidays because of its association with traditional religion.”

To that end, the ads and posters will include a link to a Web site that will seek to connect and organize like-minded thinkers in the D.C. area, Edwords said.

Edwords said the purpose isn’t to argue that God doesn’t exist or change minds about a deity, although “we are trying to plant a seed of rational thought and critical thinking and questioning in people’s minds.”

Needless to say, various Christian groups, particularly those involved in the annual War!On!Christmas! nonsense, aren’t too impressed with these ads. Take AFA president Tim Wildmon’s reaction for example:

“It’s a stupid ad,” he said. “How do we define ‘good’ if we don’t believe in God? God in his word, the Bible, tells us what’s good and bad and right and wrong. If we are each ourselves defining what’s good, it’s going to be a crazy world.”

Hate to break the news to you, Tom, but everyone already defines what’s good individually. Some of you just use God as a lame rationalization for your opinion on what is good.

Also on Tuesday, the Orlando, Fla.-based Liberty Counsel, a conservative Christian legal group, launched its sixth annual “Friend or Foe Christmas Campaign.” Liberty Counsel has intervened in disputes over nativity scenes and government bans on Christmas decorations, among other things.

“It’s the ultimate grinch to say there is no God at a time when millions of people around the world celebrate the birth of Christ,” said Mathew Staver, the group’s chairman and dean of the Liberty University School of Law. “Certainly, they have the right to believe what they want but this is insulting.”

What’s insulting is your insistence that Christmas has anything to do with Christ’s birth when there’s not a credible Biblical scholar around who thinks Christ was born anywhere near December 25th.

Both of those responses pale in comparison to Fox News’ own Steve Doocy, Brian Kilmeade and Alisyn Camerota as they discussed the ad campaign in mocking terms:

That whole thing is so full of idiotic assumptions that it would take multiple entries just to address them all. Take for example that Atheists don’t celebrate Christmas when, in fact, quite a few of us do. There’s a whole secular side to Christmas and plenty of customs that have nothing to do with the religious aspects that have been forced on the holiday by Christians. You may have noticed that I make use of the word “Krismas” to indicate the difference. What’s really annoying, however, is that rather than discuss the message of the ad—which suggests that belief in a God isn’t a requirement for being good—they opted to simply mock atheists with a lot of strawman arguments and then suggest that we shouldn’t be allowed to put up messages such as this one on public buses.

Comments:

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chief United States Posted on 11/12/2008 at 06:22 PM

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Just curious, where is the quote about non-theists feeling “a little alone” coming from?  I didn’t see that in the press release.

Positive United States Posted on 11/12/2008 at 06:55 PM

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I do not have a problem with Atheists celebrating Christmas as a sort of secular holiday. There is a secular side to Christmas, as Les says. And as Les says, December 25 is not Jesus’ actual birthday, according to the Bible he was born some time during the Spring; December 25 was chosen merely to rival an important Pagan holiday. So its fair game, then, for Atheists to do sort of the same thing and use that day for their own sort of holiday. Atheists have families, after all, and their kids should not be deprived of presents and that kind of thing.

I do think the bus ad would likely create anger more than anything else, but certainly people can advertise whatever message they like.

Positive United States Posted on 11/12/2008 at 07:02 PM

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One other thing, though, I think it is wrong to suggest that Christmas doesn’t have “anything to do with Christ’s birth.” We may not know the actual day he was born, as I said, but that is not really the point. The point is it is a day to celebrate his birth, whenever that may have been.

AngryArcheologist United States Posted on 11/12/2008 at 07:23 PM

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Fuck them, I celebrate Christmas utterly secularly…with my Jewish side of the family. I want to go into that studio and scream at them all for being so god dam stupid.

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“They say there is a heaven for those who will wait. Some say it’s better but I say it ain’t, I’d rather laugh with the sinners then cry with the saints. The sinners are much more fun.” - Billy Joel, Only the Good Die Young

decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 11/12/2008 at 08:25 PM

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Now, now, there’s a 0.274% chance that Jesus was born on 25 December. That’s good enough for me.

leguru United States Posted on 11/12/2008 at 09:51 PM

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DOF:

a 0.274% chance that Jesus was born on 25 December

Damn! That’s the strongest evidence I’ve yet seen for the birth of Christ. I’m a believer, now, too.  snake

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“What is a good man but a bad man’s teacher?
What is a bad man but a good man’s job?
If you don’t understand this, you will get lost,
however intelligent you are.
It is the great secret.” LAO-TZU

my shoes are talking United States Posted on 11/12/2008 at 10:30 PM

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i like your beard

decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 11/12/2008 at 11:31 PM

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i like your beard

MORE evidence for the birth of Christ!  And you should have seen that grilled cheese sandwich I ate yesterday.  It had nothing to do with Christ, but it was a great cheese sandwich.

Tony United States Posted on 11/13/2008 at 12:33 AM

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The point is it is a day to celebrate his birth, whenever that may have been.

Who cares when he was born? If anything, the big Christian celebration should be when he died, Easter, because, after all, that was the whole point for his little trip down to Earth, to save us sinners after being brutally tortured and nailed to a wooden cross. (But only if we “accept” him, of course. God can only do so much on his own to save us after all.)

I just love the Christian militant who says that people who don’t believe in God can’t know what love is because God tells us so right there in his little how-to manual, the Bible. So I guess if I beat my wife to death because she’s having a period, stone my next door neighbor who happens to be a dwarf and dared to go to church in his ungodly deformity, and kill my son just because God told me to so to test me on whether I really loved God or not, then I’d be defined as being good.

Positive United States Posted on 11/13/2008 at 01:03 AM

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Easter is a Christian holiday, last time I checked, and Easter is considered to be the most important Christian holiday. But for Christians Christmas is important too.

Les United States Posted on 11/13/2008 at 01:18 AM

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Easter, like Christmas, was originally a Pagan holiday which the Christians bastardized.

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“Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions.”
- Frater Ravus

xav0971 United States Posted on 11/13/2008 at 02:10 AM

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What a bunch of dumbasses on Fox news!!!!! Fox news always mock atheists whenever they get a chance. It’s nothing more than a religious right wing propaganda station. It’s not a “real” news station at all.

marleyinoc United States Posted on 11/13/2008 at 02:14 AM

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I want to believe!

Positive United States Posted on 11/13/2008 at 03:37 AM

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As I said, I am aware of the history of Christmas. Easter was the name of an Anglo-Saxon Pagan holiday; though this is exclusive to English, in other European languages they use a term that derives from the word “Passover.”

Either way, the idea that you would call it “bastardizing” for first millennium Christians to adopt the date that coincided with an important Pagan holiday but at the same time write a whole thread topic about how Atheists should not be criticized for adopting this Christian holiday and making it their own seems hypocritical. As I said, I think Atheists are perfectly within their rights to do so, and this does not bother me or offend me. I think I am probably in the minority among Christians on that position. But why, then, would you cast dispersions on Christians for doing basically the same thing? They did not “bastardize” these holidays, they made them their own, as Atheists want to do today. Seems like the same thing.

zilch Sweden Posted on 11/13/2008 at 03:42 AM

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I do think the bus ad would likely create anger more than anything else, but certainly people can advertise whatever message they like.

You’re right, positive.  “Why believe in a god? Just be good for goodness’ sake,” is certainly a hate-filled message, and would arouse justifiable anger in any upstanding person.  It starts out asking people to question their belief, and we all know where that can lead: loss of self-righteousness, belief in evolution, and finally atheism.  Then the insidious ad delivers a double whammy: the injunction to “be good for goodness’ sake”.  Just imagine the chaos that would lead to, if people took it seriously!  They’d all become Communists, or Fascists, or maybe both at the same time!

I just hope that people keep their children away from these buses, until a law can be passed to forbid this kind of hatemongering.  Then we can again rejoice in safe, loving ads, like this one.

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You were born.  And so you’re free.  So happy birthday.
- Laurie Anderson

zilch Sweden Posted on 11/13/2008 at 04:02 AM

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P.S.  In the meantime, if you want some inspiration that not all is lost with the election of the Obamination, check out what the real Christians are doing: they are preparing for the coming battle.  Here’s a small sample:

If it all is going to heck, I’m actually looking forward to it. Not in a grim way, just, as a younger man, I’m looking forward to the struggle. I think men in their nature need the struggle, just like women need kids. Modern women have to dote on pets to replace kids, while modern men have to diddle around with video games and sports to replace the struggle.

God willing, the crap hits hard and soon, and it’ll give men problems to solve, crazies to shoot, hungry mouths to feed, women and kids to die protecting…life could be like the greatest video game ever.

I can hardly wait.

Oh, and positive:

Easter was the name of an Anglo-Saxon Pagan holiday; though this is exclusive to English, in other European languages they use a term that derives from the word “Passover.”

Not quite exclusive to English: in German, Easter is Ostern.

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You were born.  And so you’re free.  So happy birthday.
- Laurie Anderson

zilch Sweden Posted on 11/13/2008 at 05:46 AM

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Yet another P.S. for any language freaks out there.  Easter in Hungarian is Húsvét, which is not derived from Passover, which is Pészah.  I knew that “hús” means “meat”, and as far as I can figure out (my Hungarian is not that great, and all the explanations of the name I could find are in Hungarian) the name for Easter signifies the end of Lent, when eating meat was allowed again.  I’d be glad to hear from any Magyarok about this.

Oh, and Easter in Estonian is “Lihavõtted”, which also sounds as though it might not be derived from “Passover” or Latin Pascha.  But my knowledge of Estonian is nil, so I can’t say.

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You were born.  And so you’re free.  So happy birthday.
- Laurie Anderson

zilch Sweden Posted on 11/13/2008 at 09:14 AM

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Update for all you fans of the Hungarian language: Húsvét means “meat forbidden”, so it sounds to me like the name for Lent got attached to Easter somehow.  Köszönöm to Tiko, an excellent Q3 player, for this info.

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You were born.  And so you’re free.  So happy birthday.
- Laurie Anderson

Les United States Posted on 11/13/2008 at 09:57 AM

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Positive writes…

As I said, I am aware of the history of Christmas. Easter was the name of an Anglo-Saxon Pagan holiday; though this is exclusive to English, in other European languages they use a term that derives from the word “Passover.”

The Anglo-Saxon Pagan holiday was not named Easter. It was the celebration of the lunar Goddess Eostre and Easter likely took its name from that Goddess. The folks at ReligiousTolerance.org have more on Easter’s Pagan origins.

Either way, the idea that you would call it “bastardizing” for first millennium Christians to adopt the date that coincided with an important Pagan holiday but at the same time write a whole thread topic about how Atheists should not be criticized for adopting this Christian holiday and making it their own seems hypocritical.

Hypocritical? Not really. Atheists aren’t out to take over the holiday or to subjugate anyone over to our religious worldview by changing the symbology, we just ignore the parts we don’t agree with. The secular aspects of Christmas developed on their own in spite of the best efforts of the Church.

Christians, when they set about making their holidays coincidentally coincide with the Pagan festivals, did so with the express intent of conversion of the heathens. The Pagan festivals were quite popular and convincing folks to give them up wasn’t going well, so one of the more clever Popes decided the people could keep their feasts and they’d just rip out as much Pagan symbology as they could and replace it with Christian symbols. That’s why I used the word bastardization. It worked for the most part though a lot of Pagan rituals and symbols still remain much to the chagrin of the folks who put it all in place.

As I said, I think Atheists are perfectly within their rights to do so, and this does not bother me or offend me. I think I am probably in the minority among Christians on that position. But why, then, would you cast dispersions on Christians for doing basically the same thing? They did not “bastardize” these holidays, they made them their own, as Atheists want to do today. Seems like the same thing.

See the previous paragraph for why what the atheists are doing and what the Christians did are not the same thing.

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“Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions.”
- Frater Ravus

Positive United States Posted on 11/13/2008 at 09:02 PM

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You’re right, positive.  “Why believe in a god? Just be good for goodness’ sake,” is certainly a hate-filled message, and would arouse justifiable anger in any upstanding person.  It starts out asking people to question their belief, and we all know where that can lead: loss of self-righteousness, belief in evolution, and finally atheism.  Then the insidious ad delivers a double whammy: the injunction to “be good for goodness’ sake”.  Just imagine the chaos that would lead to, if people took it seriously!  They’d all become Communists, or Fascists, or maybe both at the same time!

I think this rather condescending response, and Les’ comments, all really tie into what I was talking about.

You are doing what first millennium Christians were doing when you use Christmas as an opportunity to try to get the Atheist message out as a way to rival the Christian one. That is what this bus ad is all about. And there is nothing wrong with that, Christians advertise Christianity all the time and Atheists certainly have the same right to promote Atheism. I did not say otherwise. But don’t then say that Christians in the first millennium were wrong to use December 25th as an opportunity to promote Christianity, or that they “bastardized” December 25th. There were aspects of the holiday that they retained from Paganism where appropriate, and Atheists have done the same with Christmas for their own benefit. Again, that doesn’t bother me that Atheists want to do so, and I suppose if I were an Atheist I would likely want to have my own holidays as well. But don’t then say that it was wrong for first millennium Christians to do virtually the same thing.

And I did not say that asking people to question their beliefs is wrong or bad for society. You’re putting words in my mouth, and lots of them. I said the likely response will be one of anger and probably won’t accomplish much. I doubt seriously that someone will see the bus ad and decide “Oh, ok, I needed to see that bus ad… now I know that believing in God is a waste of time.” It wasn’t exactly that powerful of an ad. If you want to promote Atheism, a short and simplistic advertisement likely isn’t the way to go.

I did not intend to argue with anyone here. My main point, to begin with, was that I as a Christian do not share the views of those Christians mentioned above or those people on Fox News that there is something wrong with Atheist families celebrating Christmas in their own way.

And yes, I was not aware of the German word for Easter. But in Greek and in the Romance languages they use a word that derives from Passover. And what I meant was that the English word “Easter” derives from the Anglo-Saxon term.

zilch Sweden Posted on 11/14/2008 at 04:07 AM

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Positive- I didn’t mean to be condescending.  I know that you didn’t say that people would be justifiably angry about the atheist bus ad: I was just satirizing the people who probably will get exercised about it.

I don’t agree with your finding a bus ad an inappropriate forum for promoting atheism.  Given the pervasiveness of Christian messages in American society, from “God Bless America” to “Why do Atheists Hate America”, an atheist message might at least remind people that not all Americans are believers.  Perhaps someday atheists will even be judged fit to hold office- at the moment, they are the most hated minority in the country.  A little recognition might work wonders.

As far as the holidays go, I don’t really have a dog in that fight.  The Christians are welcome to appropriate December 25 and the Sunday after the first full moon of Spring for their purposes.  I think it’s good if everyone knows the true origins of these holidays, as pagan festivals, but as long as they serve to make people happy and promote peace, that’s fine with me.  We celebrate Christmas and Easter too, although not in a Christian fashion.

The only holidays I personally recognize are the solstices and equinoxes, because they go to the ground of our being as inhabitants of a cyclical planet.  There will, however, be a big party in my workshop next Feb. 12, which is of course the two hundredth birthday of Abraham Lincoln and Charles Darwin.  That should be celebrated.  Anyone who is in Vienna is cordially invited to come and raise a glass to Abe and Chuck.

And positive- I hope you don’t get the impression that I am anti-religion, or anti-Catholic.  As they say, some of my best friends, including my wife, are Catholic.  I’m basically just interested in peaceful coexistence, and a sustainable future.  Sometimes that requires exposing dangerous falsehoods, like the common fundamentalist belief that Jesus is coming soon, so it doesn’t matter, in fact it’s a sin, to do anything about the environment.

cheers from rainy Vienna.  Look me up if you ever get by this way, or are in the SF Bay Area in the summer.

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You were born.  And so you’re free.  So happy birthday.
- Laurie Anderson

Logan United States Posted on 11/19/2008 at 02:28 PM

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I highly recommend people watch the movie on the right at this website: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

The guy puts out a convincing argument that the story of Christ is just a plagiarism of the Egyptian and other religions. the story’s are all the same, just the names have been changed.

The stories are based on the astrological procession of the Sun throughout the year.

It’s a 2 hour movie, but the portion about this subject is the first chapter.

Logan United States Posted on 11/19/2008 at 02:40 PM

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Regarding http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

Part 1 starts about 13 minutes into the film.

Most of the first 13 minutes is visual and music interlude. It can be missed. start it, let it buffer for 12-13 minutes and go fix yourself a sandwich.

Les United States Posted on 11/19/2008 at 03:04 PM

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We’ve been over the Zeitgeist movie, Logan, as well as the Jesus/Horus comparison and it’s not very convincing.

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“Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions.”
- Frater Ravus

Logan United States Posted on 11/19/2008 at 03:07 PM

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I’d be interested in reading that discussion, how do I find it?

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