LuckyJohn, my boyfriend wants you to know that he’s tickled pink that you quoted him in your above post. Come to think of it, so am I. 

LJ: How would we ever know if we were happy if we never had the other to compare it too?
Or would this be a world of no opposites?

Interesting point, that people need to be able to make comparisons to identify something exists, I suppose it goes for science too - a law in physics is only recognised if it results in not everything behaving the same way - but it’s perfectly acceptable mathematically to multiply a number by 1 for example and leave it unchanged, in fact with group theory (used in symetry), all tables are required by definition to have the operator E, which leaves everything unchanged, so everything has an E operator as a component in it’s symetry.

(warning - i might get confused part way in)
To give you an idea, other operators are rotations, improper rotations (rotation then reflection) and reflections, and inversions, the molecule or object you’re characterising the symetry for is assigned vectors in certain directions and, if the vector is unchanged by an operation you record 1 in the table, if it inverts record -1, if it does neither record 0 i think (which means that object does not have that operator as a component of it’s symetry)

------back to reality:
Anyway it raises the issue that possible heaven could not be appreciated to infinity - if it was perfect and nobody knew any different it would just be the norm and nothing particularly special.

If possible ‘god’ is good - the bad things might be to make us appreciate the good times
And vice-versa for malicious god.

Whether a sadistic god would know when to stop - he might not if he didn’t know what effect he was having which we see in people in life who, though asshats, are not primarily doing it out of malice but their intentions benefit someone, even if it is themselves, but it may be the case that he is fully aware but simply enjoys seeing suffering and has no intention of teaching them anything, in this scenario he would have no reason to stop, more reason to continue indeed

John - glad you mentioned that quote by Epicurus. I know the argument, but forgot whose it was and how it was stated.

Sadie: You’re welcome.
I like to re-cycle other people’s good stuff - it makes me look smater [sic] and my stuff look better.

Patness: You’re welcome; I collect quotes. I found that one only a few days ago.

I really like this little cutey I found recently.
Richard Dawkins: A universe with a God would be very different to one without.
A xian could be sucked in to asking: how do you know?
I can imagine Richard giving one of those arrogant little enigmatic smiles accompanied by the ever so slightly raised right eye-brow.

(This may post twice - it didn’t seem to take the first time.)

Hell supposedly is the result a person chooses to experience through renouncing God. One is deemed to have free will to accept or deny God but free will assumes one triggers the position by deciding to be born to begin with.

The Bible says that God forms every life…

13) For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.

14) I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.

Psalm 139

...yet this would mean that God punishes someone who never asked to be born in the first place. It’s hardly fair to force someone to exist then punish them for all eternity for existing incorrectly.

This injustice could be rectified if incarnation/reincarnation were true. If one chooses to be born into God’s world one could be expected to either play by His rules or pay the price.

So little time; so many Biblical complications. It’s no wonder there are so many divergent dogmas simply in Christianity alone.

Hello, first thanks for the welcome distant claws, I appreciate your replys…

“i think religions of all sorts have gone astray -by man

All religions have always been man-made.
Seneca: Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. “ - LuckyJohn19

Come on! I don’t want to waste my time reading the obvious, here’s one for you however: to me, the sky appears to be blue ... and on that context John, I deal only with possibilities so if you desire a response from me we need to be on the same playing level and to do that we need to reguard all things simply as ideas, instead of you know this - so this is reality…

this is what i say to some one who tells me that (their) reality is reality… ‘hey God, so tell me the stuff I really want to know...’

i don’t have time or desire to respond to ideas claimed to be true, unless you can tell me all about the great questions ( I have never claimed anthing I said to be true!!! Just posibility and thought it very important food for thought), so please lets talk as things as simply as ideas and not reality...(or not talk)

and again , i am not here to argue, that is a waste of time, and it is to no benefit from me to try and change anyones thoughts, that is also a waste of time, rather my intentions were to share ideas (possibilities) - it is your responability from then on out...[continue course A, or venture on course B (being open to new ideas or possibilities)]

and i will probably reply to a bit ... in a bit

also i feel like i have to clear this up..I dont think of the idea of God as a man or any thing close… My perspective on the idea of God is realy incomprehendable… and so I think some focus got lost when I say God is Love… so let me still agree with that but be more specific… he is Love, he is a,b,c,d,e,f,g… infinity… God to me is essentially incomprehendable to man, and yet here we are trying to figure it out, much like Quantum mechanics and the second we try and observe we find the collapse of the wave function and every thing seems static.

i am trying to consciously state that i am making observations and not saying this is true , bc like stated above then I would be all-knowing-god, i am not...so in a sense you may disagree, but i am leaving myself in a position where i am neither right or wrong might i point out

To Brock:

okay this has gotten too out of relevance for me

I hope I didn’t use the Bible as a reference, I thought I was specific on Jesus and his words and actions alone (which are only documented in the new testament), nothing else in the Bible, if I did use the old testament I apologize, I have nothing to say about that , and I also am non-religious by the way, I believe they are corrupt to be quite general but I have reason for this that i would probably wasting my time explaining my viewpoint bc it is relevant to laws and such (scientific/cause and effect/karma-like ) ... i want to point out two things, there is a difference between christianity and accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and savior (God), that is a personal , spiritual venture, that has nothing to do with the religion… religions again are seperate because man seperates them in to his own worldy fitting-fashion… I despise religion! It’s man-made crap (to me).  Religion should be viewd as seperate bc we are dealing with man and ‘God’ ... man is forever seperated from God, unless, he is God or both, and then that man who is God or both , is the only way to God outside of man. this is just hypothetical but very true, take this literally, what else could work hypothetically if God exists? (man is either God or not, or both
) and Jesus was the case that I brought up were we have in instance in linear time history where a man was said to be who walked the earth is and was both… Christianty , ehhk.. not relevant to me… hypocrites i say many of them… the real spiritual matter concerned would be between Jesus and man not man’s idea of how a religion should be based on how they see fit at times in linear time

ok it was fun but no more wasting anyones time here, i tried to leave myself in a context as neither right nor wrong (in attempt to prevent having to reply)just wanted to add some thought of possibility at a time yesturday, good luck and good night! Lol

Dude: so if you desire a response from me we need to be on the same playing level

Being an apathetic lazy Australian I need to do fuck all because I only obey the laws that serve me ... this does not include laws like gravity over which I have no control, right now.

and I also am non-religious by the way

By that I presume you don’t belong to any particular Christ house (of cards).

there is a difference between christianity and accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and savior

Actually, no; there isn’t. You’re attempting a deft hand of semantics but I’ve seen those tricks on the tellyvision.

religions again are seperate because man seperates them in to his own worldy fitting-fashion

Now if you’d said: Religion is blah blah you may have invited me to think you were on a new(ish) track but you’re really talkin’ xianity, eh?
The possibility of Islam and Hindu religions don’t enter your equation, do they?

I despise religion! It’s man-made crap

But you don’t seem to realise that the whole of religion, from concepts to practice, from god to the worshipper or fearer is all emanating from one belief; the belief in an invisible (Omnimax) entity in whose essence you believe ... or not.
And, (quoting Richard Dawkins who quoted Bert Russell) I believe in one less god than you.

i tried to leave myself in a context as neither right nor wrong

Sorry, dude.
There comes a time in every man’s life where he must drop on either side of the fence or else you’ll damage your jacobs.
Whilst ever you believe in the god delusion you believe the best is yet to come and it just isn’t so.

i tried to leave myself in a context as neither right nor wrong

Sorry, dude.

Yeah, dude. Statements of facts are decisive - even down to what ideas are worthy of consideration or even consistent. You can’t be neutral on a subject except when you say nothing. Then your inaction may betray you. At best, you can only grease your crowd so that you offend the least among them.