is not likely to endear yourself to anyone.  I suspect you may be pretty nice in person- why spoil it by impugning our motives?

And I give a shit about endearing myself to anyone on this blog?  Since I showed up here and began posting I have met with downright hostility.  My suspicion has always been that liberals are by nature a very unhappy, bitter lot who can’t debate without being rude and caustic.  You all have proven me right.

But contraception and celibacy do that too, not to mention war and disease. There is no point at which you can say definitively “This is murder. This is not�.

Sigh.  Contraception and celibacy prevent conception.  Oh yes, I know the pill fails and occassionally causes a spontaneous abortion very early on.  War and disease also kill but men enter war knowing what they are at risk for and disease, unless you believe the conspiracy theories, is not deliberate, intentional killing.  Abortion is deliberate killing. You can’t compare any of them.

And I believe someone else threw this one at me:

contraceptives-I have no problemwith contraceptives other than they are often a risk to a woman’s health in general.

sex education-I teach my children that, not the school. But if you want schools to teach your kids then fine. Who cares.

condoms-Is this a joke or a trick question? I could care less about condoms.

morning-after pills-This is controversial and I admit I have never made a definitive judgment on this other than to say I would RATHER see a woman use this method than wait until the embryo’s heart is beating and is already developing.  I know, I know, there are arguments that life begins at conception-and any medical dictionary and resource says it does. And I do believe it does but there is something less hideous about this option-if an option MUST be used.

Now I can expect an onslaught of posts about how my thinking is moronic, sociopathic or something equally as ridiculous. Keep em coming, folks, you are actually curing my boredom and making bedrest quite enjoyable for me. LOL

Karen, your multiple posting is rude and inconsiderate.  You’ll notice we all reply to multiple people in one post (let alone one post for replies to the same person!).  There’s no reason you can’t, too.  That’s standard internet courtesy.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!  I’m rude and inconsiderate because I break my posts up and direct them to the people who posted to me.  get fucking on with it altready, shana and stop obsessing on the way I post.

And as I said before, you can keep posting to yourself because I see no reason to go around and around...how’s that for circular, toots? Nothing will change my mind and nothing will change yours. I’ve said all I have to say...to you at least, on this subject.  Now move on already.

I will say this though:

At the American Psychological Association

Nice try at finding an unbiased source. ROFL.  Nice try, no cigar.

Others carry guns, shoot other children or adults, and are on the fast track to prison or a graveyard. Some are poisioning themselves, quickly or slowly, with a wide variety of different substances.

Do you have ANY proof whatsoever that the kids involved in Columbine or any school shooting were the result of unwanted pregnancies or is this just another run off at the mouth in a desperate attempt to justify pre-executing children on the off chance they might turn out to be psychopathic?  How about kids who commit suicide? Any statistical proof they are products of unwanted pregnancies?  I doubt it.

Doing so gratuitously, irresponsibly, without any regard for the supportability or future of the child, is a grievous sin.

Is that sort of like, hmmmmmmmmm, having unprotected, irresponsible sex and then murdering the innocent product of it because you fucked up and can’t be bothered to take care of your responsibility?  Is that the sin you speak of...or are you speaking of actually giving the mistake you made a chance at life?

My suspicion has always been that liberals are by nature a very unhappy, bitter lot who can’t debate without being rude and caustic.  You all have proven me right.

Well, Karen, what can I say?  That pretty much obviates a reply.  Good night.

Shana,

Yes, the genes are human, biologically speaking.

I think you’re granting Karen too much.  Genes are genes, it really doesn’t make sense to say that X is a human gene and Y is a chimpanzee gene.  When you consider that most mammals, indeed most organisms share a huge number of genes (given that the basic proteins utilized by most living things are common) and that genes tend to be specific to various products rather than various species it seems that the only grounds for calling a particular gene a human gene is that said particular gene was extracted from a human, when a homologous chunk of DNA could likely have been pulled out of an organism belonging to a different species.

Karen,

Yeah, I’m super bitter and unhappy.  I spend half of my day plotting and the other half crying.  I wish I wasn’t such a liberal, maybe I should take some Paxil.  Yeah, that’ll cure me of my liberal disorder and make me into a happy conservative.

maybe I should take some Paxil.

Or maybe getting some friends? Fresh air? A reason for living?

Nah, I just find it typical and irritating at the same time that a blog full of liberals can’t have a healthy, considerate debate without name calling and sarcasm within EVERY post.  You are the unhappiest and most predictable lot in the world.

You generalizations are as fault as your logic. The cast of regulars here are wide and varied in their political stances, yet we manage to remain civil with each other and indeed consider each other friends, or as close to friends as you can get without over the web.

Personally, I am a libertarian who leans conservative, I voted for Bush twice but I am agressively pro-choice. Stick that in your assumption hat.

yet we manage to remain civil with each other and indeed consider each other friends, or as close to friends as you can get without over the web.

Well excuse me while I dab my hanky at the corner of my right eye...how touching.  Oh how I wish I had a pack of internet “friends” I could sit around with and agree with all day and join in on the fray and attack when someone with a differing opinion comes along!

How lame.  Try jumping to the other side, Glover and REALLY debating and showing what you’re made of.

Personally, I am a libertarian who leans conservative

I really couldn’t care less what you consider yourself.  Did I say the blog was ALL liberals? I said it was FULL of them.  There’s that paranoia....

How lame.  Try jumping to the other side, Glover and REALLY debating and showing what you’re made of.

Sigh.

I debate when certain conditions are met. The first of those conditions requires that I disagree with someone. (The only one in this thread I really disagree with is you. As I said, I’m pro-choice.) The second condition is having someone willing to actually exchange ideas instead of simply spewing rhetoric. Most of the regulars here are capable of that. You don’t appear to be. The third condition is that I have to feel like getting into a lengthy exchange. I don’t always have the time or inclination to do that.

Another thing that will bring me into a conversation is a statement that makes no fucking sense. I have a hard time refraining from comment when it comes to blatant stupidity. This has nothing to do with debate, and suprise, this is how I crossed your path. You said something that made no fucking sense.

That’s the rational side of my reply.

As for your “how touching” and “how lame” comment…

Go fuck yourself.

(The only one in this thread I really disagree with is you.

Gee, what a surprise.

Most of the regulars here are capable of that.

Not from what I have seen. The vast majority of responses have been sarcastic one liners and off the wall jokes.

You said something that made no fucking sense.

Awee, poor baby.  I can’t help you make sense of intelligent debate.  Sounds like a personal problem.

Go fuck yourself.

Oooooooooooooh, did I hit a nerve?  How it tickles me pink to know I made someone as crabby as I am today.

Goodnight, Glover boy.

The vast majority of responses have been sarcastic one liners and off the wall jokes.

You get what you deserve. If anything you had to say was worth an intelligent exchange, you’d get one. In fact, several regulars far more patient than I have given you the benefit of the doubt and TRIED to exchange ideas with you. You didn’t respond in kind.

I can’t help you make sense of intelligent debate.

Your statement wasn’t intelligent debate, you babbling twit, it was moronic. The fact that you can’t recognize that it was self contradictory goes a long way to reafirm my already low opinion of your intellectual capacity.

Oooooooooooooh, did I hit a nerve?

Don’t flatter yourself. I’m in a delightful mood tonight and nothing said here could possibly change that. I don’t need to be pissed off or emotionally charged to tell someone to go fuck themselves. In fact, I rather enjoy telling people like you to go fuck themselves. It makes me smile.

Karen chatted with me quite a bit via IM a couple of nights ago and I can say that she’s quite capable of holding a reasonable discussion one on one, but she seems to be having a bit of trouble doing so in the threads here. I have to admit I’ve stayed out of this so far in part because I wanted to see how things would go and it doesn’t appear to be going too well.

Karen, you’re being a bit quick to dismiss some of the points folks are raising in their discussions. Based on some of the things you’ve blown off as “biased” I’d have to say that there’s no such thing as an unbiased source in your view which makes providing one to you a lesson in futility and makes one wonder why you keep demanding that folks come up with one. It’s clear that in your view your sources are beyond reproach while anyone from the opposition is wrong by default. That’s not an intelligent debate of the issues by a long shot. There are a couple of things you’ve said that I’d like to address.

Well excuse me while I dab my hanky at the corner of my right eye...how touching.  Oh how I wish I had a pack of internet “friendsâ€? I could sit around with and agree with all day and join in on the fray and attack when someone with a differing opinion comes along!

If you take the time to read through the archives here I think you’ll be surprised to find that even the regulars don’t always agree with each other. Nor do we tend to gang up on anyone who comes along with a differing opinion seeing as many of us tend to hold differing opinions in the first place. Which isn’t to say that we never gang up on anyone, but it’s not because they have a differing opinion. Usually it’s because they want to claim only their opinions as the correct ones.

Nah, I just find it typical and irritating at the same time that a blog full of liberals can’t have a healthy, considerate debate without name calling and sarcasm within EVERY post.

Looking back over the thread I think you’re stretching it a bit to say that every post has name calling and sarcasm in it. You also started off pretty aggressive when you first showed up and I’d argue that you may have brought some of the negative reaction you’ve received on yourself. You seem to be expecting a certain reaction and you then seem to act in a manner that will generate that reaction making for a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.

You are the unhappiest and most predictable lot in the world.

I’ve gotten to know quite a few people who frequent here both in person and through lengthy correspondence and I can say with some confidence that there are very few that I’d classify as being unhappy. I know that, all things considered, I’m a pretty happy guy most of the time. In part, probably, because I vent my frustrations here on my blog. I’d probably be the miserable and bitter person so many folks accuse me of being if I were to keep it all bottled up and not bitch about it.

Anyway, just thought I’d step in and make a couple of comments. I know you can hold a better discussion than this, Karen, because we’ve already done it via IM, but not if you’re going to just assume the worst about the folks you’re discussing with and set things up so they turn out the way you expect them to.

Others carry guns, shoot other children or adults, and are on the fast track to prison or a graveyard. Some are poisioning themselves, quickly or slowly, with a wide variety of different substances.

Do you have ANY proof whatsoever that the kids involved in Columbine or any school shooting were the result of unwanted pregnancies or is this just another run off at the mouth in a desperate attempt to justify pre-executing children on the off chance they might turn out to be psychopathic?  How about kids who commit suicide? Any statistical proof they are products of unwanted pregnancies?  I doubt it.

Who said anything about Columbine?  It sounds to me like you might have “fundie syndrome”; you don’t actually hear opposing arguments, you just hear the argument you want to hear.

And if you want statistics, just do a Google search—‘foster’ ‘children’ ‘drug’ ‘abuse’ ‘incarceration’ ‘gangs’ ‘statistics’.  You’ll find plenty.

Although I’m kind of surprised that you’re not already familiar with the figures, since you write so knowledgably about the issue.

http://www.liftingtheveil.org/foster14.htm

Single mother families—Statistics
http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/family/g1294.htm#FAMFACT
http://www.hisside.com/8_31_03.htm

Adopted kids—Statistics
http://www.ksattach.us/statistics.htm
http://fostersurvivor.netfirms.com/statistics.shtml

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/108/1/e10
(I particularly like this one, since it talks about the post-reunification outcomes.  One of my pet peeves being that biological parents are so frequently thought of as being ‘better’ or more ‘real’ parents, when that is often the furthest thing from the truth.)

Adolescents in foster care are at the highest risk of abuse of alcohol or drugs, contracting and transmitting HIV, or becoming teenage parents (Child Welfare League of America, 2001).

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:pgY1m6_8DOEJ:www.naswdc.org/practice/adolescent_health/ah0203.asp+foster+care+suicide+rates&hl=en&client=firefox-a

is this just another run off at the mouth

You’re sweet, Karen.  You remind me of Ellie.

in a desperate attempt to justify pre-executing children on the off chance they might turn out to be psychopathic

I’m not desperate to justify anything.  I tend to think most unplanned pregnancies are actually the result of being irresponsible.  I just don’t see how having a baby is suddenly going to turn an irresponsible person into a responsible one, and I don’t understand why we would want irresponsible people raising children.  And I know that we, as a society, have demonstrated repeatedly that we aren’t willing to pick up the slack.  So forgive me if I don’t buy into the ‘there are alternatives’ bullshit.  I’ve seen the alternatives up close, and it’s like curing a headache with a lobotomy.

pre-executing children

I don’t believe that fetuses are children, any more than an acorn is a sapling, so this particular argument doesn’t resonate with me.  Flesh does not a ‘person’ make.  Even if it’s human flesh.  The ‘pre-executing’ jab was delightful, though.  A juicy example of ‘loaded language.’ I’ll have to remember that one for my students, when we do our unit on rhetoric.

on the off chance they might turn out to be psychopathic

Well, the statistics on detachment disorders and other mental health issues might actually warrant a discussion of that particular argument, but my concern is not so much for society, as for the children, themselves.  I doubt you’ll find that perspective very compelling, since you seem to think that fetuses are just little tiny people, waving little semaphore messages ("Hi mom,") and screaming in terror as the doctor’s cruel forceps sweep in to crush their precious little skulls.

Whatever.

This debate, as long as it continues to be entwined within the political rhetoric that has consumed both sides of the political spectrum, will not progress.  It’ll just be people screaming at each other from opposing sides, spraying spit while they accuse each other of being ‘baby killers’ and ‘woman haters.’

How tiresome.  And pointless.

Do you have ANY proof whatsoever. . . Any statistical proof. . . I doubt it.

How skeptical (and wrong) you have proven to be.  Of course, I knew that going into this post.  What’ll be interesting is seeing if you are capable of recognizing it.

Quote of the Day
“Tis better to be silent, and thought a fool, than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.”

By the way, Les, I like the way the new system handles links.  It’s much more user friendly.

More than anything I get the impression that Karen craves being noticed. Still, it’s possible her attention skills are wanting, as she can’t wait till she’s read all the comments before she responds.

nowiser mentioned ellie and she is the only other person who tended to break up her comments into excessively truncated bits and could go off on a tangent like nobody’s business. ellie and Karen are eerily alike.

Karen, I appreciate that you want to discuss issues. I even think that somewhere inside you is a decent person who has a curious nature and yearns to be informed. But you’ve parroted nearly every nonsensical opinion a very closed-minded person tends to hold and you’ve been extremely rude too many times. Selfishly you seem to think that others should allow you to behave any way you want.

Today you’ve intimated that you are in a very bad mood and it feels to me like you want others to suffer with you. Why?

To be honest you’ve been much more abrasive in your comments than most others here have. Is it something personal bothering you that you’d like to talk about? Most of the members here are extremely considerate and forgiving when you give them a decent chance to be.

Sorry to seem to be jumping on you again and ganging up on you but I half think it’s what you want anyway.

Socialist Swine--It was my understanding that a specific gene of the same name will vary slightly between species.  At any rate, it is uniquely a human embryo, and that’s what I meant, apologies…

-------

Well, that’s fine, Karen. 
Your lack of a dignified and relevant response to my post can only lead me to believe that I’ve given you pause, shook up your misconceptions.  For that I would be thankful.

Move on already?  No, I’ll stay where I am, thanks.  Les is the only person who can ask me to leave.

Also, what makes you think you’re likely to change the minds of everyone else here?  You seem to understand that I won’t change my mind, but you’re content to argue with everyone else?  Strange.
Anyway, you won’t get very far with the personal insults.  They don’t prove anything other than that you are rude and heartless, especially to OB.  You’d think someone claiming to be a Christian and a loving mother would have more compassion.  I’ll feel sorry for your future children when they make mistakes and need your help.

Shana, Karen’s posts turned just mean (I actually considered looking for an ignore option after her response to OB), and I would not defend that, but your comment made me think to point something out. My first post on this thread was written with a little sarcastic humor, and though I got a chuckle out of it, Karen’s response to it and then the deterioration of the thread made me realize it is all so very pointless. I never responded to her comments about my first post not because she made me think about my position but because it would have served no purpose other than to waste space (just as I think my first post probably did). I don’t know why Karen didn’t respond to you, but I have seen that “rendered speechless” assumption before and just thought to say something in general about it.

Brock, I was thinking along the same lines, that there is something else going on.

Les, your capacity for patience and reasoning is amazing.

The difference for me, Justice, is that she did actually reply enough to essentially say, “Move on,” whereas you just didn’t reply at all.

Anyway, I’m not holding my breath.

Karen: And this has to do with what? So again, you justify a wrong with a wrong?  Doesn’t fly, sorry.

It has to do with your missing Geekmom’s point.  I was not justifying the action. 

Karen: Excuse me, but WHY do you give a damn how many times I post or respond to the dozens of people who are slamming ME with posts?

Because it’s poor nettiquete to post back to back instead of consolidating them into a single post.  For the last time (if you even read this), you don’t have to reply to every post with one of you own. 

And each post you make is an email in my box, too.  I’m sure I’ll regret replying, since I’m getting bored with this thread, and am ready to unsubscribe.  The divergence into abortion is something I’ve since decided my stance on (what Hank said), and the argument over dogma I could care less about (being agnostic), but I wouldn’t want you to think I’m posting and running. 

Karen: Get a life, will you?

Hey, I’m not the one who spent their ENTIRE Friday afternoon and early evening posting. 

Karen: I sign on once or twice a day and respond all at once.

But it’s too hard to type it all in, THEN hit submit ONCE?

Karen: First, it is uncomfortable to sit at the computer for more than an hour or so a day

Except on Friday afternoon, when you were busy typing away from before 1:23 SEB time to after 7 pm SEB time. 

Karen: Nah, I just find it typical and irritating at the same time that a blog full of liberals can’t have a healthy, considerate debate without name calling and sarcasm within EVERY post.

But it’s okay for you, since you don’t do it in EVERY post, just most of them?  Sarcasm is a lot of fun with people who like to dig their own holes.

Karen: Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!  I’m rude and inconsiderate because I break my posts up and direct them to the people who posted to me.  get fucking on with it altready, shana and stop obsessing on the way I post.

So if someone you’re having dinner with keeps picking their nose at the dinner table and you ask them to quit, they refuse and tell you to “get fucking on with it”, would you just say “okay” and drop it? 

Karen: I have not attacked one person here,

I call bullshit.

I was going to respond to your post over on the ED thread, but I decided not too.  You seem to think that because you have the Truth, the truth is irrelevant.

Justice: Brock, I was thinking along the same lines, that there is something else going on.

Glad it wasn’t just me getting that impression.

Ragman: Except on Friday afternoon, when you were busy typing away from before 1:23 SEB time to after 7 pm SEB time.

You’re expecting Karen to be consistent? If I took the time (and it would take some time, believe me) to look back through all her comments, I’m sure I could find a ton of doublespeak. Stream of consciousness documented makes that much more likely.

Karen, I suppose I can surmise from your failure to answer the question that you have NOT ever had an abortion, so cannot possibly know what a woman who’s faced with the decision can feel.  It’s no wonder you haven’t an ounce of sympathy and cannot for even a moment place yourself in her shoes.

Oh how shocking that someone diplays the truth on their own rig.  Unwind your panties, OB and get over it already.

My panties aren’t wound.  I was merely pointing out just one example of the “unrelenting chorus” that creates most “post-abortion guilt” some women feel.

Wow. I don’t even know how to respond to this other than to say TMI.  And aren’t you the little hero for actually deciding to have your daughter. Do you remind her daily how lucky she is you didn’t have her sucked out and tossed in a garbage heap?  What a great person you are!

Fuck you.  Having a baby isn’t heroic, any woman who gets laid at the right time can squeeze one out 9 months later, regardless of whether she’s fit for what’s entailed AFTER birth or not.  Raising a child, on the other hand, is a much more difficult prospect and shouldn’t be taken on unless it can be done properly.  That’s what I’m teaching my daughter, because I swore she’d have a reality-based education; and that’s reality.

Rather than relegate my first pregnancy and abortion to a dark, closeted secret, it serves as a good example to my teenaged daughter that birth control can and does fail, and when it does it requires a difficult choice that demands one consider the *realities* of her situation - rather than romantic fantasies of birth and motherhood.  A 19 year old woman living in an area with almost no job opportunities, with few and undeveloped professional skills, no chance of financial or other assistance from the father, and a recent history of rather prolific alcohol and drug use should NOT carry a pregnancy to term, period.

Were it not for her “sucked out and trashed” potential older sibling, my daughter would likely never have come to be; or she’d have had the “good fortune” to be born into a life where the basic necessities of life were hard to come by.  It IS her good fortune that I had the wisdom and foresight to put off becoming a parent until such time as I could give her a better life than living in a shithole town, likely on welfare and with a possible special-needs sibling who got that way because it was damaged in utero by its mother’s drug and alcohol use.  While my pregnancy was not a result of being irresponsible, continuing it most certainly would have been irresponsible in light of the circumstances at the time.  Termination was the only option considering the reality; hence no regrets, no guilt.

BTW - Just because you’re pregnant and not feeling well, don’t take it out on me or the rest of the SEB regs.  Beat up your old man or something… he’s the one that knocked you up.

Because it’s poor nettiquete to post back to back instead of consolidating them into a single post.

I’m sorry but what sort of MAN sits on the internet, arguing with women, worrying about their “nettiquete”?  What kind of man even uses that word anyway?  Ragman, I think you take the internet too seriously. Perhaps you fail to be gainfully employed, like our leader here, or you just simply have nothing better to do that worry about someone else’s internet habits. Either way, it’s disturbing and sad.

Except on Friday afternoon, when you were busy typing away from before 1:23 SEB time to after 7 pm SEB time.

Case in point. But for the record, I was up and down. Not sitting here that entire time. But then again this begs the question: WHY THE FUCK DO YOU CARE????????

Karen, I suppose I can surmise from your failure to answer the question that you have NOT ever had an abortion, so cannot possibly know what a woman who’s faced with the decision can feel.

You can sit around surmising and assuming all you want.  I didn’t respond because it’s none of your business. 

Raising a child, on the other hand, is a much more difficult prospect and shouldn’t be taken on unless it can be done properly. That’s what I’m teaching my daughter, because I swore she’d have a reality-based education; and that’s reality

You’re right, it shouldn’t be taken lightly.  You obviously had no business having sex until you were ready to deal with ALL of the possible consequences.

BTW - Just because you’re pregnant and not feeling well, don’t take it out on me or the rest of the SEB regs. Beat up your old man or something… he’s the one that knocked you up.

Oh that’s nice terminology. You are truly mature.  “knocked up” is a white trash saying-it goes right along with “broad”.  Your daughter must be so proud of her mom.  But just in case you are concerned about my moods or my health, my crabbiness had nothing to do with my pregnancy. I felt just fine. It was entirely unrelated.

Shana, take my responses as you will.  Quite frankly I don’t even know why I am bothering with you.

Your lack of a dignified and relevant response to my post can only lead me to believe that I’ve given you pause, shook up your misconceptions. For that I would be thankful.

Shana, I stopped responding because I was done debating this issue with you.  How many times do I have to say it? You aren’t changing my positiong and I am not going to change yours.  Truth be known I would rather be arguing real politics and not emotional issues like this.  I regret I even got sucked in to this debate.

Anyway, you won’t get very far with the personal insults.

Amd I stopped arguing because the personal insults directed at me : “sociopath”, “small towned retard” were mucking up the debate. I began seriously and it descended in to ridiculousness-especially when someone posted about their skin cells. That’s when I decided I had had enough.

You’d think someone claiming to be a Christian and a loving mother would have more compassion. I’ll feel sorry for your future children when they make mistakes and need your help.

I never claimed to be a christian.  I have no idea where you fantasized that up from.  And I would be more concerned about the future childred YOU would exterminate like little antagonizing bugs because they were inconveniencing you than I would about MY children.

Brock, Brock, Brock. Where to begin with your silly little attempt at psychoanalyzing me from a few posts on a blog?  Gee, that’s so original, too.

Still, it’s possible her attention skills are wanting, as she can’t wait till she’s read all the comments before she responds.

So because I prefer to respond one comment at a time, my attention skills are lacking?  I don’t think I have ever come across a blog or message board full of anal ninnies who get so in a dither about the way someone posts. In fact, I have never come across a blog or board that insists you respond all in one long posts to a dozen different people posting to you.  My take? You and anyone else here who has complained, lack the ability to debate this very emotional issue and must focus then on my style of posting.

Selfishly you seem to think that others should allow you to behave any way you want.

Gee, Brock, I didn’t think I needed approval or permissionto behave any way I like. Do you ask permission before you date a man? Do you ask permission before you have sex with him?  Can the double speak, Brock. This is the internet and not your living room. I can behave whatever and however I choose.

Today you’ve intimated that you are in a very bad mood and it feels to me like you want others to suffer with you. Why?

No. I was in a crabby mood period and then to come here and once again see the ridiculous responses I was receiving to this, what I consider a serious debate, set me off.  You accuse me of wanting attention but yet here you are giving it to me hand over fist as though you are obsessed with me, my posting habits and my personality/need for information/deep inner self, blah blah blah.  Give me a break.

Most of the members here are extremely considerate and forgiving when you give them a decent chance to be.

Again, pardon me while I dab my dainty floral hanky at the corner of my moist eye.  I have yet to see one person here who is as you described.  I attempted honest, intelligent debate and had my babies referred to as tapeworms and inferred they were as important as skin cells.  While everyone here sat back and said nothing. These were the sort of responses I was getting:

.

I did a little research on the ‘net, and decided debating her would be at best, tossing pearls before swine.

Incidentally Karen, do you live in rural Michigan?  Are you on the Atkins diet?  Or is that another Karen?.

Oh, and she says that you, Karen, are wrong on all of your points, and you should go sit down and be quiet.

Insulted long before I threw out one insults and actually STALKED on the internet-although this asshole did a piss poor job. Why would I be on Atkins while pregnant?  I am not on here tryin got find out where people live so I can intimidate them with that info. I found that comment way out of line-and yet nobody said a word. It’s called your typical blog club mentality/hypocrisy.  You all can sit back and toss insults and basically harrass or tell me to sit down and be quiet me but then the minute I get worked up, pissed off and sarcastic myself-people like you are on me like stink on shit trying to analyze WHY.

Good God.