ntyb, why not find something better to do with your time as a good honorable christian, like look down on people who act on their own volition or rape their wives or extort their bloodlines into poverty somewhere else, where people are dumb enough to glorify you for it?

Ok, enough of that, on to substance.  nytb, realize that you are defending a religion which is mired in bigotry, murder, oppression, conspiracy, factual obfuscation, lack of substance and whos misanthropic actions will land their leaders and defenders on the first train to the place you dub hell. 

Realize that your organization’s schools, which I have personally attended, are nothing short of high-end camps for religious treatment whos instructors bombard their students with garbage about the union of faith and reason.  The mere mention of such an idea is absurd with the christian track record over it’s existance, and they would sooner confess to every killing and evil they have done that allow such a filthy thing as “science” to shut them down. 

Realize that little, if any, of your religion is not stolen from other religions that were in close geographical proximity.  The birth of your savior was shifted to coincide with a pagan feast to celebrate the end of their year.  The over-commercialized holiday dubbed halloween, or Samhain orginally, was a feast for the time when they believed they natural and the supernatural worlds were at their closest, and with the rise of investigations into the supernatural occuring, more will be found. 

Realize that while you yourself may, though doubtful, have good intentions with your faith, there are ten to match that one who will gladly kill, rape, burn, loot, and die for the christian religion. 

Realize that the organizations that lovingly promote this kind of action exist and are getting more strength day by day as their political reach grows stronger, and their victims are portrayed as the “freaks” and the “failures” of high-end society.

Realize that the people, like myself and the millions across the world who adamantly abhor this type of action, will not let the vibrance of life be quenched from existance.  We will not let the human race be douped and led by robed men who lust for power, wealth and flesh and masquerade as the voice of god on earth.  We will not let you damn us all.

Your religion’s victory will be over my dead body.

After detailed analysis worthy of a Dan Brown novel, I think zilch’s quote from Samuel says it best:

3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

I do believe that the lords intentions were not to destroy the Amalekites - but rather to bugger their sheep.  See - if you don’t know His true will - you get into all sorts of trouble when you do what he tells you.

nottellingyoubastards-i realize this is called sacrifice, and sacrifice is asking someone to kill someone, as for proving or testing faith, that shows me that god is insecure, he is saying, prove you believe in me, and love me, as an insecure sick individual would do. and jesus died for our sins, thats the one that dumps guilt and shame on people just for being born.this is not the same as doing something more challenging to see how capable you are, this is insecurity and madness.

and we do pay for our sins, but no god has to punish us, and no jesus needs to save us, we punish ourselves, and we save ourselves, unless or course, you have no consious, or remorse.

just choose not to believe in him, and work to make the worl a better place, by not messing and trash talking those who do.

Can’t argue with that, ntyb.  I have the greatest respect for those who work to make the world a better place, regardless of their beliefs, as long as “a better place” means something everyone can agree on: food, water, and shelter for the needy, and a healthy environment for all.

When I said “keep your beliefs out of public schools” I didn’t mean that we should take Bibles away from kids (I’ve never heard anyone advocating that), but that no religion should be taught as the truth, in place of science.  “Atheism” is not a religion, but rather a lack of religion.  And science is “atheistic”, not because it proves that there is no God, but because it doesn’t rely on any supernatural explanations.  Every Christian, and every Moslem and atheist for that matter, depends on “atheistic” science and engineering every time they board a plane.

Cheers from Vienna, zilch.  Let me know if you’re ever in town, ntyb, and I’ll treat you to a beer (or another drink of your choice).

k… one final note, to all you gracious responders…

itdontmatter — poor choice of words, since you athiest have no belief in a higher being, then all animals (humans included) should be treated teh same, if there is a snake and a child i nthe road, and you have to hit one, why the snake?  that obviously isnt every “athiest’s” view, but athiest do leat a lot of the tree hugging groups who have that mindset.  first, i dont carre waht tehy are killing, killing a embryo… it is teh killing part that i dont like. if you can find another way to put it besides killing, i might be happy. (might) and second, at what point does teh embryo become a baby? partial birth has gotta suck, like if it is a feet first baby, he is thinking YES im gonna live.. i havent been killed yet.. oh crap dang-it so what point doe an embryo become a baby?  um right.... i never called you wicked till now, you are wicked, you practice sodomy, adn taht is one of the main reasons god destroyed SODOM and gomorah… also, you remind me of a verse in proverbs, which states teh wicked shall GLORY in thier wickedness.. or something like that… so there you have it, i did just call you wicked but i know i am no better, it also says in the bible, that anyone who looks at another woman to lust after her has already commited adultery wtih her in her heart, so i am pretty screwed up at heart as well, another verse, “if you comit one sin, you are guilty of all- yup so you are wicked, but all of humanity is i nthe same boat…

whiteblood… um i dont know where that comes from, but i dont think that looking down on people gets you very far, no more than yall looking down on people who believe in god does… its really teh same thing, they look down on you, casue they dont sin the SAMe sins (even though they (i) do stuff just as bad, since all sine are on the same level.  and you look down on them casue you view them as wasting thier life not sinning the fun sins.. and casue you think they are hypocrites… so i dont think that you or I have any room to talk abotu who is looking down on who.  k point one, select few, being viewed as a whole.  such a pity
point 2 ooh… ill catch the sience part later, but i dont know what organization i am wtih… let me know on that? k?  you again try t ocharacterize falsely everytime you get a chance, deep roots of bitterness i suspect.

piont 3 i think i already mentioned your faulty information, if this were a true debate you would be required to show your research proving you HORRIBLE outlandish statements. bt its not, pity..

point 4.. lost me there… sry..

point 5… vibrance of life, i guess to you means that you dont want to have an rules in your life.  for centuries, man has tried t oget around a higher authority, evolution, and myths were created to explain stars and how we got here, man wants to escape authority at all costs, its our nature.  but someday, you WILL stand b an authority, adn you wil be accountable for you cchoices… your victory, will be over Christ’s dead boy.

MichealPeacock… lol… i find that amusing although inaccurate… thx for the laugh.. nah his TRUE wil was to go destroy ALL teh amalekites, the reasons was casue teh AMelk..people hadreapeatedly disobeyed god.  isreal was only the punishment god sent on them

jory, actually i think webster defines sacrifice just a LITTLE differently… he was testing faithfulness. you ever had a dog? you should be able to sympathize here!
jory um yeah… he just helps there some times too…

zilch- thank the lord someone here does! 
well that has been on the adgenda, that and no praying for lunch(at lunch)(i dont think the kids have to ask god for cafeteria food, i think that comes from another place) also taking under god out from the pledge of alegiance… all things i dont advocate.  on that note of sience. here it comes. there is no more faith needed to believe creation, than to believe evolution. evolotuion has no percetage chance fo working, it is logically impossible.  so is creation.  mutations on animals decrease thier functionalty 95% of the time. evolution needs that fact to be flipped flooped in thier favor.  there are no common day examples, and no missing links found.  2 of the four missing links documented have now been found to be 1, a doctored human skull, and the other teh skull of a female chimpanze..  the other 2 are human, but out of two bones, we cant draw too much… and definately not a whole man. the system of dating had to be changed, becasue other wise these bones would only be about 3 thousand years old.  so no evidence for creation, no evidence for evolution.  now i WOULd be happy, if they tought only creation, i believe it so of course i think that. but i of course realize that would be pointless.  and in another way, i dont think it should be taught exclusivly becaseu that would eliminate all possiblitites… but i dont see why we cant teach two THEORIES… one Evolution… and 2 Inteligent Design… bothare possible.  but instead of teaching our kids atheism. lets show them a possiblity… casue saying there is no god, is like saing “there is no gold in china” i havent searched all of china, and noone has searched everywhere god COULD be.  well, sience, stil cant explain the proton, why does it all stick together… they are still wroking on that.  where do protons come from?  (and, dont think I think I know… casue i sure cant answer that!

hey thx for teh offer, but take me to a place wehere they dont ID you… casue that could be hard to explain… thx for all you time reading this.  i hope noone thinks i am an ass… well at least no a horrible big one.. a little one is ok…

to most of yall who replied, dont think i am at all impressed by those of you who threw the word “fuck” around… none impressive
second for those of you who wonder at all why on earth i am here, PLEASE read this passage.

Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman:

3If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;

4Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.

5He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.

6But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman’s hand.

7So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.

8When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

9Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. 

i now must say, based on what i say, if you die, adn when you stand b4 my GOd, you will have to answer to him, and you will have to say i HEARD, adn did not believe.  your blood is on thy head.

and to clsoe on a happy note…

A man went to the doctor and said, “Doctor, I’ve got a problem, but if you’re going to treat it, first you’ve got to promise not to laugh.”

“Of course I won’t laugh,” the doctor said. “I’m a professional. In over twenty years I’ve never laughed at a patient.”

“OK then,” the man said, and proceeded to drop his trousers, revealing the tiniest penis the doctor has ever seen.

Unable to control himself, the doctor fell laughing to the floor. Ten minutes later he was able to struggle to his feet and regain his composure.

“I’m so sorry,” he said. “I don’t know what came over me. On my honor as a doctor and a gentleman, I promise it won’t happen again.”

“OK,” the man says.

“Now,” the doctor says, getting down to business. “What seems to be the problem?”

“Well,” the guy says, “it’s swollen....”

and a nice clean one…

Little Lisa was in the garden filling up a big hole in the dirt when her neighbor peered over the fence. Interested in what the cheeky-faced youngster was up to, he politely asked, “What are you doing there, Lisa?”

“My goldfish died,” replied Lisa tearfully without looking up, “and I’ve just buried him.”

The neighbor was very concerned.

“That’s an awfully big hole for a goldfish, isn’t it?” he asked.

Lisa patted down the last heap of dirt then replied, “That’s because he’s inside your cat.”

k home yall have a great night! 

Sincerely
___________

Wow. So many (improperly spelled) words to say so very little. I bet you had to take a nap after all of that nonsense.

Whatever: even if you don’t believe in god, don’t attribute everything bad that happens to him

We don’t and, we don’t even attribute the good stuff to him ... COS HE DOESN’T EXIST!!
Sheesh – can nothing penetrate that firewall? Information? Doubt? Reason?
Most of us believe in one less god than you do. One day you may wake up from the scam slumber and believe the same - until that time ...
Remember when you believed in Santa, the Bunny and the Fairy? Well the god stuff you believe in is absolutely like that. It was invented to keep control of the masses; to keep them as slaves - you are being controlled by perceived outside forces … but, we aren’t so therefore we are free, non-slaves, and the feeling is extremely liberating.
You mentioned up there somewhere that Sodom was wiped out cos of the actions of a coupla gays.
I wonder if you’d feel as casual if god said that he wiped out the Twin Towers cos a coupla gays were there ... as well as your straight parents (I’m assuming). Don’t you think it’d be a bit extreme?
C’mon, you’re allowed to judge god – he doesn’t exist no matter what those parasites you call priests and pastors say.

but I don’t see why we cant teach two THEORIES… one Evolution… and 2 Intelligent Design… both are possible.

One reason is the separation of church and state stuff you may be familiar with.
Another is that one is science and the other is only religion no matter how you dress it up – a rose by any other name is still a rose.
Another reason is that ID/Creationism comes from a babbling book that is so archaic, simple and not science you wouldn’t have a gun, car or plane let alone computer or phone if that’s what the inventors relied on.
Science is what allows you to do what you’re doing here, NOT god.
Wake up, mate – study and read and search out information – it’ll set you free.

I dunno why I’m wasting my time ... your love, subordination and enslavement to the concept of this invisible man in the sky is immune to any logic.

Peace

What’s with the current flood of inarticulate proselytizers?

les… nah… i didnt

lunkyjohn… right… read a little towards teh top… itll help you immensly… actually all of the above… information… doubt.. “can he stil not see waht im saying?” reason… “of course he can, he just doesnt want to, casue answering to a creator for his actions, would hinder his lifestyle. and promote guilt.. that would be uncomfortable.  “ yup all three…

you can prove there is no santa, you can prove there is no tooth fairy (at least not one that does everything it claims, but you canont prove there is no god,

u mactually both sodom and amelek were wiped out becasue the entire nation had turned fro mgod, adn went there own way. entire isnt obviously refering to 100 but majority, so you analogy, while moving is inaccurate, lets put it in a better light, to be blunt, Mine. if the twin towers were wiped out, becuase it was the gay heaquarters of america, and my straight parents weree one of the 10 straight people in there, i would have to wonder why they were working in a place where they should be working. it is just like lot, who ALMOST died with sodom, except for gods grace, who gave him a way of escape.  but he had no buisness being in sodom. yet he was tehre and ALMOST died there. 
parasties… there is that bitterness again!

OH GOOD! i was HOPING somone would throw that in!  would you mind telling me wehre that phrase is from? and make sure you check it out b4 you tell me… yup… and furthermore, the intention of that was that the STATE would not chose a government defined religeon. as was teh case under teh rule of the king.  infact, te men who wrote the laws for ourcountry were on the majority VERY religeous. and that is evidenced in our constitution, adn or pledge of alegiance. youd like to take that out, but it just hasnt seemed to work yet- has it?  so where does evolution come from, a man who later stated he didnt even believe what he wrote. you cant prove evolution and to the contrary, god gave us teh brains to invent, and the curiosity to want more. we were inteligently designed.  furthermore, if you love your sience is so great, what holds protons together? explain that, what started the bigbang, where did life originally come from? has the earth always been here? wehre did whats always been here come from?  all those questions sience wont answer… i want more.

you want me to wake up, you want me t obe set free, that is only cause you see me hindered by the chains of my faith, that is not the case. you think you are free t odo as you please casue you believe i nnothing, i say if you are truly free, leave your sin. you think you are free but you are bound by the tightest chains imagineable.  i am not trying to soud judgemental, but i as well, have little power over sin, but as a christain, i have the power of god the son, jesus, helping me to defeat my sin nature. a power you have never known.  so you say i should be set free, believe me the TRUTH, is what WILL set you free, and it is the freedom to conquer sin that you lack.

i dunno why i am wasting my time, your love of you sin, subordination and enslavement to a dead, fairytale writer(darwin), is imune to all logic

peace~

elwedriddsche~~

Its just one guy who cant type, and yes i would be VERY happy if you saw the gravity of your situation, and i have something that helped me i feel compelled to share, and whenever yall are ready for me to leave, quiit responding and i will know its time to go, and also if you want me out casue i dont see things the way you do, i understand that too!  anyhow, nice use of big words big long name person

take care yall

solio de gloria

ttyl

You can prove there is no santa, you can prove there is no tooth fairy (at least not one that does everything it claims, but you canont prove there is no god,

You also can’t disprove the existance of leprachans and fairies, yet we don’t create religions worshipping them and we don’t beat people over the head with our false religion’s Book of Lies whenever we can’t counter their arguments.

u [sic] mactually [sic] both sodom [sic] and amelek [sic] were wiped out becasue [sic] the entire nation had turned fro [sic] mgod [sic], adn [sic] went there [sic] own way. entire [sic] isnt [sic] obviously refering to 100 but majority [sic], so you analogy, while moving is inaccurate, lets put it in a better light, to be blunt, Mine [sic]. if [sic] the twin towers were wiped out, becuase [sic] it was the gay heaquarters [sic] of america [sic], and my straight parents weree [sic] one of the 10 [sic] straight people in there, i [sic] would have to wonder why they were working in a place where they should be working. it [sic] is just like lot [sic], who ALMOST died with sodom [sic], except for gods [sic] grace, who gave him a way of escape.  but [sic] he had no buisness [sic] being in sodom [sic]. yet he was tehre [sic] and ALMOST died there.

I quoted the above passage because, quite frankly, your spelling and grammar is terrible.  Did you say you are a mathmatician?  Perhaps you should have taken a few classes in English.  I find it ironic that you criticize someone for not understanding the meaning of the word suicide, yet you yourself fail to string together a simple sentence without errors.

Some Random Comment Troll: You can prove there is no santa, you can prove there is no tooth fairy (at least not one that does everything it claims, but you canont prove there is no god,

Your ignorance is pretty stunning. Are you aware that it is impossible to prove a negative? No, I can’t prove that there is no god any more than I can prove that there is no Santa. However, I think that the likelihood of either existing is about the same (i.e. not very high). I certainly don’t believe that your conception of god exists. If he did, you can be damn sure that I wouldn’t worship him.

ntyb- if you’re sixteen or older, you can legally drink beer in Austria.
What holds protons together?  According to Jack Chick, Jesus does: “by Him are all things held together” (Collossians 1:17).  According to science, the strong nuclear force, which is not completely understood, but is quite accurately measurable and predictable, does.  Which sounds more likely to you? 

And while there is no ultimate explanation (so far) uniting the weak and strong nuclear forces and electromagnetic force with gravity, the incomplete models we have now are stunningly accurate.  As Richard Feynman pointed out, “If you were to measure the distance from Los Angeles to New York to this accuracy, it would be exact to the thickness of a human hair.”

Scientific models of the world, while necessarily imperfect and incomplete, conform immeasurably better to observations than the Bible does, and are able to make predictions that can be confirmed, unlike the Bible.  Not surprising, given that the Bible was written by prescientific nomads millenia ago.  Why should we regard the Bible as anything other than a quaint relict of our past?

And speaking of the Bible- I notice you mentioned the Amalekites.  Could you explain to me in your own words why God told the Israelites to kill all the Amalek babies?

Sadie: Your ignorance is pretty stunning.

Girl, you’re just too smart to be so delectable (I sent my 30 yo nephew a link to another thing in SEB - he emailed back “old sexy sadie’s is not bad, and smart” ... I haven’t acknowledged yet - what should I tell him? This is not a trick question.).

Zilch - the poor kid’s fucked and too far from home (I think it’s a saying but I’m too pissed to care about this child’s future).
GOD - YOU CAN HAVE HIM!! ... why wasn’t there a sign? ... Next ...

I’m going to the club ...
Have a great ... ... what day is it again?

you can prove there is no santa, you can prove there is no tooth fairy (at least not one that does everything it claims, but you canont prove there is no god

If you were to put a condition that in one night santa would have to travel to x numbers of houses,
with an average distance between equal to y, total distance xy would require santa to travel at a speed xy/24hours not counting the time spent in each house, the friction caused by air resistance from travelling at such speed would generate enough heat to vapourise santa as a physical being extremely quickly, as such it wouldn’t be possible for one lone santa to deliver all presents as theorised
source of info:
http://attrition.org/misc/humor/xmas-proof.html

as a side note i always find it a wierd idea a possible god would create people only to worship him, but i can’t make judgements about stuff i have no way of knowing

nottellingyoubasturds: Your response made no sense—whatever—*plonk*

I’m not sure whether to be amused or appalled by his responses. There’s a little of both to be found in them.

Zilch: if you’re sixteen or older, you can legally drink beer in Austria.

And if you’re eighteen or older you can legally make ANY decision, including to drink or not to drink, in Australia.
Obviously North Americans are immature.
Ya know what amused me? When I was in Vietnam in 69 North American kids were old enough to go to war - kill men, women and kids BUT were not old enough to drink - there was strangeness in the air ... the government obviously knew their slaves’ limitations ...

the thickness of a human hair

Mmm ... love that stuff ...

prescientific nomads

Aaahh – love that also, TOO. 

I think we have to give up on this child - remember the old Jesuit saying: give me child till he’s seven and he’s mine for life … the kid’s gone troppo … he’s owned.
Fare thee well kid - come back if you want some REALITY - otherwise keep your sermons for brown-skinned people who can so much more easily be sucked into your insanity ... you know ... the type of people your WASPs like making war upon.
The only white-skinned people y’all ever made war upon were Germans but that’s only cos they wanted to rule the world and hell .. that’s your job. 
Fuck, I amuse me – musta had not enough to drink - I can still see the keys. 
It’s 1am - I’m going to bed.

nottellingyoubasturds wrote:

where do protons come from

By the way each proton consists of 3 quarks held together by gluons. There are 3 types of quark, quarks have mass and (i think) account for the positive charge of the proton. A different combination of 3 quarks gives the neutron with neutral, and so implies not all quarks have the same charge, or at least they don’t all add charge. Though there are forces that hold a nucleus together i don’t know why the hell there should be considering protons are all positive, could be to do with spin, since different isotopes have different numbers of neutrons and different overall spins of the nucleus and different nucleur stability. Certainly neutrons are involved in the attraction.
I couldn’t tell you why gluons hold quarks together, but you may find it interesting that a high energy electron is essentially no different than an antiquark, note energy and mass are interconvertable with relativity so its ok to say it becomes an antiparticle with negative mass, and you could account for it having a whole charge (and not 1/3 as you may expect when i said 3 quarks make a proton) by saying each quark of a certain type has a whole charge and one type has no charge, you can combine (add or subtract) different combinations of 1 for electron or 3 for proton and neutron to account for charges.
There remains the question why there are more quarks than electrons if electrons were the way of disposing of antiquarks after the big bang in a way that won’t eliminate matter, i couldn’t tell you, but you may find interesting that antimatter would behave the same as matter if time, spin, mass and charge were inverted but as time cannot be inverted they behave differently which may account for why it was the antiquarks that changed into electrons and why the number of quarks outnumbers
a possible theory is that most antimatter (and some matter) was projected back in time at the point of the big bang to allow something to be created from nothing, some antimatter was projected forwards to allow electrons but most might not have been. still i couldn’t tell you why the hell the big bang happened when it did, the scale it did, or why it hasn’t happened again since
a problem for big bang theory is that at the start matter would have been so dense that gravity would have been many times that of a black hole, and so no expansion should have happened, possibly presence of some antimatter had a negative gravity that pushed the universe outwards and possibly accounts for the apparant accelaration we see in expasion today
gravity would appear to be a time related force, though i couldn’t tell you why time goes forward at the rate it does. people say everything has it’s own sense of time, though i can only understand it by comparing relative time to absolute time, in otherwords you need two types of time to define rate of time in terms of time
i couldn’t tell you why any forces should apply in the universe, why spin affects energy, why charges attract/repel, why gravity should apply, etc

LJ: The only white-skinned people y’all ever made war upon were Germans but that’s only cos they wanted to rule the world and hell .. that’s your job.

Ah, Carlin…

That man is about as close as I come to having a personal deity. Seen him live three times, own all the cd’s, books and HBO specials and I’ve watched/read/listened to them all at least 100 times.

LuckyJohn: the kid’s gone troppo … he’s owned.

I suspect that this guy really is ruined for life. It’s too bad that his utter asininity makes him unworthy of sympathy.

And speaking of “going troppo,” I can’t believe it’s been five years since ol’George left us.

And speaking of “going troppo,” I can’t believe it’s been five years since ol’George left us.

ol’George? To whom do you refer, Sadie?

To whom do you refer, Sadie?

This lovely soul--the one and only Quiet Beatle.

KPG: Do you have Carlin’s first album, the one covered with photo vending machine pictures, in which he has no facial hair and short hair?  I found a copy in a cut-out bin at a Woolco store when I was a kid, over 30 years ago.  I had no idea who he was when I bought the album, it was like a dime or so, and I liked the album cover.

Woolco was Woolworth’s answer to K-Mart.  A friend of mine got busted at the Woolco store for suspicion of shoplifting, and Woolco called the cops.  The cop lifted my friends shirt, and found what he supposedly had shoplifted tucked in the waistband of of his pants—it was his own wallet.  Woolco blamed the whole incident on my friend!  Needless to say, word got around at school and all of a sudden there were a bunch of kids carrying their wallet under their shirts when they shopped at Woolco.

Distant Claws - great explanation although a little too deep for children and other simple people like me.
I doubt the child was expecting anything quite so elaborate when he posed the throw-away question.
‘Dr Dino’ would have given a much simpler explanation.

KPG: Ah, Carlin…

Yeah, Carlin; the clever bastard. 

Sadie: the one and only

He was my favourite too - is a bloke allowed to say that about another bloke? Do I care?