Kierkegaard’s Teleological Suspension of the Ethical(TSE) happened only twice in the Bible and only needed to happen twice.  No more TSEs are needed or allowed.  Of course the Catholics don’t interpret Abraham and Isaac like Kierkegaard does (most protestants don’t know and likely don’t care).  But the Catholics have yet to come up with a better explanation.

But the Catholics have yet to come up with a better explanation.

I agree one hundred percent with you there, theo.  We’re on a run! 

she said God was telling her to jump out a window.

Why didn’t obey that order?

At least there’s a silver lining to this tragic story. According to Looking4Truth those kids are all up in Heaven now thanks to their Mom.

There’s that at least.

Why didn’t obey that order? 

Why didn’t she obey that order?

Alright, you want a believer’s word?  I’ll give you some.  Need I remind you that the example of Genesis 22 is moot because God later told Abraham to NOT kill Isacc through his angel!  BTW, you have faied to mention that the woman in question was also a classified loon.  Anything else you would like to try and throw?

Gunny writes…

Alright, you want a believer’s word?  I’ll give you some.  Need I remind you that the example of Genesis 22 is moot because God later told Abraham to NOT kill Isacc through his angel! BTW, you have faied to mention that the woman in question was also a classified loon.  Anything else you would like to try and throw?

You’ve completely missed my point. How do you know she’s a “classified loon” if you accept the account given in Genesis 22 as being truthful? How can you say for certain that God wasn’t speaking to her and instructing her to kill her kids? Perhaps God had good reason to tell this woman to kill her kids. Do you somehow magically have the ability to know God’s will?

The fact that you accept Genesis 22 as true completely undermines any argument you might make as to this woman’s mental state.

What Les said and ...

Gunny: ... through his angel!

I’m so glad Abe was sane enough to hear an angel and not believe it was the devil playing tricks.
It should be quite obvious to everyone the woman in the story may have thought the devil was telling her not to do it.
If only the Christian God of Love and Goodness had used his Omnimax powers, and saved them.

… you have failed to mention that the woman in question was also a classified loon.

If she was a classified loon, then who in their right mind left her in charge of the kids?
Shouldn’t they be charged as accessories?
Why wasn’t she a guest of the government in one of their lock-ups?
Shouldn’t some gov’t lackey be charged with ‘aiding and abetting’?
Where did she get the ideas from, about how god could even suggest such a thing as killing a kid?
Shouldn’t the babble be held up as a fragment of some fool’s imagination and cut to shreds?

Anything else you would like to try and throw?

I know they’re silly questions but have a go at one of them.
Not the last one of course. Using the babble-of-contradictions to justify and quote from, any xian can get out of any situation.

I know why she didnt, cause the catholic church has a hard time swallowing the fact that women are worthwhile people, and because she was so “in touch with god”, she couldnt soil catholic heaven with her female presence!

Wow im sick…

In Genisis 22 the Lord was testing Abraham to see if he would obey him in all things and put the Lord first in his life.  Never was it the intentions of the Lord nor his desire that Abraham actually killed his son.  The sacrifice in Genisis of Abraham’s son is a symbol of the Great Sacrifice God was willing to make on behave of all mankind, the sacrifice of his son Jesus Christ.  The story was ment to be a lesson and a prophecy of that great day of the redemption of man.  The key part of the story was the fact the God in the end did not require Abraham’s son’s life because He is merciful and because the actual act of killing his son would be contrary to God’s principles and teachings.  A human sacrifice was only required once, and it was offered freely by God himself, he would never require any other because no other was qualified to save mankind from sin.  It was enough that Abraham was willing, and that is all the Lord wanted.  As christians believe, God puts us all through what has come to be known as our Abrahamic test in life, to test each of us to see if we are willing to obey all his comandments.  But in so testing us, he will never require blood of the innocent from any of us.  Therefore this woman who said God told her to kill her children we know is a loon.  As he did with Abraham, he would have stopped her first.  I believe the story of Genisis 22 and therefore I cannot believe God told this lady to kill her children unless he also prevented her from carrying out the act.  I believe God does nothing except it be for the bennifit of us all, Abraham’s experience was a symbol, a prophecy and a fortelling of the coming and mission of Christ.  It taught us of the Love God has for us, the story in Genisis is supposed to horrify us, that someone would be willing to do such a thing.  But when we think that Jesus Christ died for us we realize how much he loved us.  But what purpose does the death of three innocent children have for mankind?  What would God want to teach us with the murder of his children?  Absolutley nothing, and therefore we can easily say that this woman was not told by God to kill her children and that she is a loon.

How can you be sure, Me?  We are talking about a God who purposefully drowned new born babies.  How can you be sure of God’s higher purpose?

“Me” writes…

In Genisis 22 the Lord was testing Abraham to see if he would obey him in all things and put the Lord first in his life.  Never was it the intentions of the Lord nor his desire that Abraham actually killed his son.

Abraham had no way of knowing what God’s intentions really were and as such asking Abraham to sacrifice his own son only to pull back at the last minute is just plain old fashioned cruelty. Hardly the hallmark of a loving and compassionate God. One more good reason to write the Bible off as nonsense.

The key part of the story was the fact the God in the end did not require Abraham’s son’s life because He is merciful and because the actual act of killing his son would be contrary to God’s principles and teachings.

And yet Abraham was perfectly willing to do it anyway. That’s one sick fuck.

It was enough that Abraham was willing, and that is all the Lord wanted.  As christians believe, God puts us all through what has come to be known as our Abrahamic test in life, to test each of us to see if we are willing to obey all his comandments.

Because the greatest test God can give you, apparently, is one that completely contradicts everything he’s ever taught you about how to live a good life. What utter bullshit.

But in so testing us, he will never require blood of the innocent from any of us. 

If you already know that then how is it a test? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

Therefore this woman who said God told her to kill her children we know is a loon.  As he did with Abraham, he would have stopped her first.

No more loony than you for buying into this claptrap.

Too bad Andrea Yates and her children were “ Put on Hold, or disconnected altogether during their Test”. Maybe God was busy on the other line with something else. I can’t really blame him though, I am guilty of the same thing when I do the laundry, I forget about the clothes in the washer, Usually I am watching some HOTTIE on TV.

And Les this person makes perfectly good sense. Why must you constantly find fault with everything? All the Carnivals are in Florida for the winter, we have a shortage of entertainment, and now your trying to pull the plug on the clowns.

Maybe she thought her kids were Amalekites (I Samuel 15):

2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.

3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

Speaking of which, I just got around to checking out Kierkegaard’s “Teleological Suspension of the Ethical”.  Seems that Kierkegaard was troubled by a few cases of unpleasant behavior by God, specifically in telling Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, and in sending Jesus to his death on the cross.

Now, Kierkegaard was certainly not alone in noting certain dissonances in the Bible.  The cognitive dissonances caused by faulty science, and the empathetic dissonances caused by God’s tetchiness, have led many to conclude that the Bible is not what it claims to be.  If tossing the Bible is not an option, though, for whatever reason, then you have to either rationalize these dissonances or just toss logic and empathy.

Kierkegaard rationalizes the “just kidding” demand to sacrifice Isaac and the for-real sacrifice of Jesus by invoking God’s Higher Ends: testing Abraham’s faithfulness on the one hand, and redeeming our sins with the life of His Son on the other.

Which leaves me with a few questions.  One- don’t the butchered Amalekite sucklings demand a TSE?  Killing innocent babies is a no-no for most people too.  Two- if God is Good, why does Kierkegaard have to invent excuses for anything God does, since Everything He does must be good by definition?  Who are we to judge God?  If He wants to waste sucklings, it must be good, somehow.  Three- why do there have to be two and only two TSE’s?  That sounds like a TSL to me: a Theocratical Suspension of the Logical.

Well put zilch.  Very well put.

After all, why use logic when you can rub out anyone you want and say it was God’s will?  But how much more quickly and deadly would such action be when you replace swords with Colt .45s, bows with M16’s, and cavalry with drive-by attacks and M1 Abrams’s?

BTW, you have faied to mention that the woman in question was also a classified loon.

a) No, he mentioned it. Paranoid schizophrenic, etc.

b) She was only classified as a loon because she was trying to obey God’s will. So really, she’s just being persecuted, right?

If she was a classified loon, then who in their right mind left her in charge of the kids?

Paranoid schizophrenics are not usually dangerous. She was hospitalized when she tried to kill herself, and probably released 3 days later with a bunch of drugs. Locking all of them up permanently would be excessive. It could be argued that locking them all up permanently would be a good idea, but that’s not how the government does it. They dope them up, and provide special homes, government programs, and hospitals when their disease gets really bad. Paranoid schizophrenics usually make better parents than the foster system.

The key part of the story was the fact the God in the end did not require Abraham’s son’s life

No. This woman did the exact same thing Abraham did. The key difference is that in the Bible, an angel prevented Abraham from actually doing it. Why didn’t an angel fly by and pluck the kids out of the ocean?

-Bob

Why didn’t an angel fly by and pluck the kids out of the ocean?

For the same reason that God doesn’t heal amputees.

Deft, Zilch; deft.
It’s a pity ‘me’ was a fly by but, I enjoyed the progression. 

You all are prolly the stupidist people ever… ONE you obviously have no life if you have this much time to waste posting, i cant believe i even read this entire blog, i happened to stumble across it as i was doing some research- and i found it intriguing that so many people could be viewing this.  let me just say, from a mathmeticians view, look at the age of her oldest kid, 6… look how many different parents there are.. 2 different fathers… she was only 23… a six year old… she was a whore who didnt know how to use a condom!  you think a 16yr old is in gods will doing that?!? doesnt sound like she really tried very hard to discern if god was telling her to really kill her kids does it? read the story of abraham, how many times did he pray if this was gods will? he was also sorrowful… i would be very surprised if this was the case with the 23 yr old whore. it says in the bible, that god will give people over to a strong delusion, and satan will have all but full control of them. again. 2.) god gave us a free will, if he were to always sweep in and protect people, catch babies out of the ocean, would there be any free will? why wouldnt we just be robotically ALL good? incapable of sin?  he created us with the purpose of glorifying him by SHOOSING to serve/honor him. obviously there is a choice. and he gives everyone that same choice. you have the option to- Admit- Admit your sin- a sin-nature u inherited from adam, has been passed down to you casueing you to sin. you have sinned just like e eryone else in the owrld, sinned enough to send you to hell. sin seperates us from god, becasue he can not have un paid for sin in his perfect heaven. its just like if i had the man who murdered your mother.  he raped her and murdered her by cutting her to little pieces til she bled to death. if a judge let him go, adn said just dont do it again you would think thats bullshit… and rightly so. your sin lands you as guilty b4 god. and he CANNOT be just. and love the rest of the world if he makes exceptions. would you tihnk the judge was loving if he let the murderer go? no you would think he was unjust.  god cannot overlook your sin. so you have a punishment or a sentence to pay. it says the wages of sin, is seperation from god forever. so we have all had the sentence of being seperated from god in a place fo punishment called hell.  that’s all we deserve, nothing more- NOTHING LESS!

Believe- Fortunately we do have a LOVING just God.  who instead of sending us to hell for our sin nature gives us a choice. a choice to believe that he sent his son to die on a cross to shed his bled to take OUR punishment.  so we deserve teh punishment but it says god the father put the sin of the whole world, on god the son’s shoulders.  so we deserve teh punishment, but he took our place. all we have to do is believe he did that for us, and

Choose- Choose to put your trust ONLY in that.  not in what you can do to outwiegh your bad, (casue i knwo most everyone wont make that happen it is only a faith in a substitue that allows you to be pronounced innocent and be allowed into heaven. 

one final note. i do beleive god told abraham to offer his son as a sacrifice. i do beleive that abraham never would have thought of that on his own. and i do believe that god would have had abraham tried to continue to kill his son that god would have interfeered(sp?) and stopped him. i do NOT believe that this woman was comanded by god to kil her kids. i beleive that was her own idea, or the devils, and for god to interfear would be hindering free will. and i am not saying i understand everything about why there is war, adn why god allows murders to live, but i do know, that i have a faith in him, and i know that has cahnged MY life, and i do know that when I die, and stand before my CREATOR and savior, i will know why i should be let into heaven, and it isnt becasue i went toshurch for 10 years, it isnt casue i gave money, it is beace his son took MY punishment, and i cling to nothing but that.

have fun picking this apart you guys, but it worked for me and changed my life, what do you have to say abotu taht?  oh yeah and if you wanna make fun of the spelling you can too

Another drive-by True Christian™…

*yawn*

have fun picking this apart you guys, but it worked for me and changed my life, what do you have to say abotu taht?

What I have to say about that is: if Christianity worked for you and changed your life, nottellingyoubasturds, more power to you.  Just keep your beliefs out of public schools, and live and let live, and we won’t have any problems.  Cheers, zilch

why the hell would god ask someone to kill their child anyway(in the bible), even if he did not mean for it to really be done. god would have to be an insecure sick bastard, and even if there was a god that asked me to kill my child, i would tell him to fuck off.
this story is another example of how damaging and dangerous religion is.

Nottellingyoubasturds...Did you ever think that your life and purpose on earth, was just to serve as a warning to others not to eat lead based paint chips as a snack. And yeah your writing skills are pathetic. Congratulations on putting the least amount of effort possible into something that is apparently a very serious subject to you. I’m impressed. Now shut the fuck up and go away.

ntyb; she was a whore who didn’t know how to use a condom!

Hmmm, That’s interesting; a christian who is not only being judgmental, but doesn’t realize that it is the christian right who have lead a fight to keep condom education out of schools.

now this is cool… like 5 responses in about an hour… i gotta make this short cause basketball practice beckons… but let me point some stuff out… zilch, you propose that i keep my beliefs out of public schools? why dont you keep YOUR aithiesitic(sp?) beliefs out of them? it is the same thin if I think my kids(that i dont have) should be able to carry a bible and not get it taken away as you thinking that school oficials shouldnt shove a bible in the hands of your kids.  both are stupid. if a kid has religeon, i think more power to them, and if you have a leader telling them to have another religeon(atheism) how is that productive. thats a school forcing religeon on a kid!  i will say i agree that there should be way less influencing kids in public schools.
j0ry- you say why would he ask someone to kill thier child- first if you are going to make statements lets use correct words shall we? the correct term would be sacrifice, if you dont know what that means, look it up… in the old testament they had to pay for sin, through a blood sacrifice, a lamb, doves, some “shedding of blood” to have thier sins forgiven, iasic was to be that sacrifice which god required to atone for sins.  it was not in the mindless shedding of blood, it was in the obediance to gods commands that had the atonement.  so he wasnt insecure, he was testing the faith to see if abraham could tackle great jobs.  just like your boss, if you have a job) has definetaly asked you to do more challenging things to see how capable you are.  you say this is another one, give me some others right if “god” told you that nowadays, that would be foolish, but the whole thing is at that time, there was a need for blood to be shed to fulfill gods demands. now god the father gave hios sone to shed that blood so we wouldnt have to offer sacrifices…

paul- no i havent… no more than i thought my life would involve ever talking to yall- but paintchips and oil based paint REALLY arent all that bad for.. hiccup… you… um actually yes my god is VERY important to me, but yall arent.. no offense.. but i dont know any of yall.. adn couldnt care less of what yall think of my typing…

it dont matter....  yeah.. i am not saying that everything every christain does is great… i think elementry age school kids should get a talk from their parents about sex, but unfortunately, most parents wont, so schools have to, i am disspointed in parents… but not totally against school sex-ed… sry fundamentalists! i am getting struck by lightning i think… oh.. and yeah i did realize that… do you realize it is athiests who lead in the ideology of killing babies to make room for the wildlife?  do you think thats good? i dont! and i also dont think that just casue you dont believe i nmy god, that you are heathen. adn that you are wicked… but when yall wanna talk about my god the way you are, you bet your ass i will defend it. 

even if you dont believe in god, dont attribute everything bad that happens to him, that is why we have a president no… just choose not to believe in him, and work to make the worl a better place, by not messing and trash talking those who do. what diff does it make you ?  k gotta run

God Bless

ntyb, Don’t worry, the chances of getting struck by lightning are exceedingly small unless one is outdoors in an open area (such as golf courses).  What do you mean by:

do you realize it is atheists who lead in the ideology of killing babies to make room for the wildlife?

Are you speaking of abortion?  If so, abortion is the killing of zygotes or embryos, not babies.  If you are speaking of abortions, what does that have to do with wildlife?

I am a heathen but I am not wicked.  My previous post said nothing bad about your god and I really don’t give a flying fuck about your imaginary friends.  The point is that you have no business calling me wicked because I don’t believe in gods.  I suppose that you would also have a problem with the fact that I fuck other guys up the ass—without a reach around.  You really need to get a clue.