Faith and intellect are apparently incompatible—which explains a lot doesn’t it?

Please, Les? Pretty please? Can we please invite them here to circumnavigate our collective atheistic intellect? I know that I personally have a conscience. I’m sure that others here do as well. Let’s give them a shot at it. It would be such fun!!

Right.  Since intellect is of Satan, and conscience (that uneasy feeling you get when tossing cuddly babies into an alligator pond) is from God…

Oh, wait - THAT DOESN’T MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL!!!  I must be in the grip of Satanistic intellect!  Help! Someone save me!

Sheesh.

I’m sure it would be different from every other time wingers show up here though.  No doubt they wouldn’t trot out the same busted arguments, etc.  It would probably be an interesting and worthwhile exchange with everyone feeling like they learned something afterward.

Heh, I think that I have just OD’ed on sarcasm!
I think that the Fundies have given up on this site. lol

“Circumnavigate the intellect?” Is that what they’re calling it? Hm, always thought it was known as “inane babbling.” Well, if you can’t blind ‘em with science, blind ‘em with stupidity.

Thanks, Les, I needed the laugh. 

Is anybody aware of research that compares professional proselytizers to other sales staff? Is there any discernible difference in technique?

Ha! Thats what Kirk Cameron has done with himself?
Not that he was anything before. I hope its getting him laid. His career wasnt doing that for him I’m certain.
Give an idiot a dollar and watch him waste it just like you did. I am so sick of this type of shit. You think humanity would have found something better to do with itself by now. What the hell, its been like 50000 years and the majority seems to keep getting more and more retarted. How is it the stupid ones reproduce in higher volume and get the survival rate? All just to clog my airwaves with senceless bullshit and tell me how I’m immoral or I’m going to hell. Now I dont believe in any of it but I tell ya, if hell is where they aren’t im suited just fine.
When the fuck are we gonna buck up and do something with ourselves and understand that things would be better if all of the drones were united and served me instead? We could build some shit humanity would be proud of. They say you cant put a value on human life - you bet your ass I can with stupid shit falling out of peoples heads like that. Its nice to know the informed are all saved and in charge.

Reality check, People.

Stupidity Is a Survival trait, and its being evolutionarily selected for.

The intelligent people just do not see the point of restricting their freedoms by having children.

I whole heartedly agree that accidental reproduction is what is causing the intelect vaccuum. But if the system really worked it wouldnt be an issue.. we would be graciously welcome the new taxpayer into the collective. We can tell its a loosing proposition after all, look at the national debt.
I think that maybe there is some comfort for good ‘ol Kirk and friends in thier little religious group for two reasons. 1) They can effect thier environment and potentially see the results 2) They feel like they belong.

This is so easily exploited by a failing government and guys running for office because the general public isnt capable/willing to learn eneough about it and organize to change the system for the betterment of the group. I know they have it in them to do it but the exploitation of the stupid is just so blatant at times...and they just dont see it. So they dont focus on the problems at hand and fix governmental issues, instead they focus on what they can control which is what really matters to religous groups.

People follow any successful structure of which they feel they belong. Most will perscribe to the standards of a group (to include conversion, etc) as long as they get more out and quality of life is better. Add an easy button for the people and you win the election. There isnt one for it so candidates pick religon and use that to thier instead. To hell with the issues that matter is he a good christian?

showing my tenth grade education again.
perscribe should have been subscribe. Thats alright, give a noob here some shit. I can take it.

Sorry Qoayn, you’re gonna have to do worse with your grammer before we take potshots at you.

elwedriddsche, there’s a great deal of social psychology research on the topic of influence and persuasion (e.g., appeal to authority; liking; reciprocation; larger-then-smaller request; foot-in-the-door etc.) They’re techniques that are actively used by sales people and evangelicals alike. (See any of the work by Robert Cialdini—esp. “Influence: the new psychology of modern persuasion.” and “Influence: Science and practice")

Really, if you think about some of the posts here, it is easy to see evangelicals’ use of these techniques:

Appeal to authority: e.g., the bible is the word of God therefore you must accept it.

Foot in the door: Don’t you find the universe wonderous? (yes, of course it is.) Wouldn’t you agree that we have no absolute scientific proof that God doesn’t exist. (yes, this is true . . .)

Friendship/liking: Think about all the public service fronts they use for missionary work.

Appeal to the emotional, etc, etc, etc

Here’s a kind of fun internet thesis on the topic: http://www.skeptic.com/submit03.html

Oh, and of course they use ‘personal relevance’—an appeal to the conscience.

Is anybody aware of research that compares professional proselytizers to other sales staff? Is there any discernible difference in technique?

Nope.  It is an obvious truth that any type of persuasion, whether engaged in a discussion amongst friends, in a debate, giving a sales pitch, or pitching the Lord, will by involve persuasive techniques.

I thought this went without saying. What I don’t understand is how this is a knock on proselytizers?

I am completely amused at your writings (everyones!) It does prove to me, as a young seminarian student, that I do not want to be the kind of moron that says one thing and completely does another.  I do what I preach - to the best of my ability - and do not preach anything any normal human being with a faith couldn’t acheive.  I appraciate all the input as it helps me develop a conscious about atheist understanding.  I would try to twist your arms - even if you begged me.

Most Sincerely - reverend.

and, of course, I should use spell check more often.

You all rock.

reverend

What’s worse than the intellect and honesty of a Used Car Salesman?
Answer: A Used God Salesman. In both cases you are stuck with junk that doesn’t work and with a worthless warranty.
Mr. Death is right. George Bush is a textbook example of stupidity coming to the fore and spreading it on the entire country. How else can you explain the fundamentalist upsurge?

Reverend said:

“It does prove to me, as a young seminarian student, that I do not want to be the kind of moron that says one thing and completely does another.”

May I ask exactly what kind of moron does your seminary turn out?

Peter,
For the most part, there are some of us that have a considerable amount of human compassion - don’t get me wrong, I am very well-adjusted, even agreeing that the “George Bush’s” of this world like to take scripture our of context in vile attempts to justify his own means - “god bless America” really gets my own goat - every time it is used to stir up american support for blowing other to bits.  My own classmates are probably more conservative than I could ever be - I am a member of the United Church of Christ - the seminary is not.  The U.C.C. is responsible for the advertising campaign that the major TV stations refused to show because of its “controversial message” - they’d rather show you the commercial of the young man wearing cologne who gets hit on by his girlfriends MILF of a mother - not controversial at all, unless, of course, you switch the roles of the male and female parts in the ad - Oooo, then you’d really piss off the conservatives.  If there are any understanding folk who have faith and are not morons like the above described “kirk Camerons” of this world, I hope I am one of them.

Regards,
reverend.

Glad to make your aquaintance, reverend. 

We’re all trying not to be morons too.  It’s harder than it looks! 

decrepitoldfool - believe me, when it comes to my profession there are plenty of us that make being a moron look really easy - K.Cameron, Jim Baker, Benny Hinn, Jimmy Swaggart, more than 90% of government servants (political wingnuts), and the often quotable, less notable, jerry falwell (just to name a few) - When the scriptures read “...and Jesus wept...” I think these few were what he was thinking about...I’d cry, too.

There were a few (a very few) months when I was an AVON lady.  The representative district assembly reminded me of the tent Revival meetings that my mother dragged me to when I was a child.  Even the AVON chants had some of the same rhythm and tunes as Bible school songs.
The selling of goodies (be they nice smellums or eternal salvation) has a similar mindset for getting started on the path to persuasion.

Ahh.. you smell that? Its vanity…
Under normal circumstances I would bag on the avon ladies. But damn. I havnt met an ugly one yet. They all work thier asses off at thier popularity contest dont they?. A shining [albiet piss poor] example of a collective functioning as a unit. I think there is a tactical lesson here. 

Rev- you cant polish a turd. sell it any way you want, its still nothing more than shiny shit. Keep it up, nonconformist + religion = revoloutionary.
You gots potential hangin out with heathens like us.

Having survived a very successful two-year mission to Brasil (I became a district leader the last 9 months), after an intensive 3-month training in Portuguese and Proselytizing at BYU, I can say that the aforementioned is the most effective, and is the way to succeed in converting a person. As I have stated numerous times, the strongest human motivation is fantasy. How do you develop a fantasy in someone else? By appeal to the emotions, not the intelect. Ask any really successful lawyer, salesperson, politician, evangelical minister, etc. In the OJ trial the facts were boring, but the fantasy that the lawyers developed in the jury won!!

When I first ran across Kirk Cameron’s site I thought it was satirical.  I couldn’t believe that anyone could seriously believe anything as stupid as what Cameron seems to be pushing.  I wonder if he was always this nutty.

Consigliere said: I thought this went without saying. What I don’t understand is how this is a knock on proselytizers?

Just when they come across as blatant salesmen.  It may work fine on someone who can count to twelve but has trouble getting to twenty b/c they forgot to take their shoes off.  I tend to tune out the sales pitch and look for facts/data if I’m going to buy(into) something.