From The Obvious To The Obvious

Posted by Brock on Monday, September 05, 2005 at 01:48 PM. Read 1788 times. Tags: ,
{name} pic

From “I don’t think anybody could have predicted that these people would take an airplane and slam it into the World Trade Center” to “I don’t think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees” the Bush administration is showing remarkable ability to miss everything between easy clues and outright revelations.

Are they really this unimaginative? This stupid? Unlikely!

In both cases they were given sufficient warnings like:

The federal government should consider aviation security as a national security issue, and provide substantial funding for capital improvements. The Commission believes that terrorist attacks on civilian aviation are directed towards the United States, and that there should be an ongoing federal commitment to reducing the threats that they pose.”
Gore Commission final report, February 12, 1997
http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/212fin~1.html

The 2004 hurricane season was the worst in decades. In spite of that, the federal government came back this spring with the steepest reduction in hurricane and flood-control funding for New Orleans in history. Because of the proposed cuts, the Corps office there imposed a hiring freeze. Officials said that money targeted for the SELA project—$10.4 million, down from $36.5 million—was not enough to start any new jobs.

There was, at the same time, a growing recognition that more research was needed to see what New Orleans must do to protect itself from a Category 4 or 5 hurricane. But once again, the money was not there. As the Times-Picayune reported last Sept. 22:

“That second study would take about four years to complete and would cost about $4 million, said Army Corps of Engineers project manager Al Naomi. About $300,000 in federal money was proposed for the 2005 fiscal-year budget, and the state had agreed to match that amount. But the cost of the Iraq war forced the Bush administration to order the New Orleans district office not to begin any new studies, and the 2005 budget no longer includes the needed money, he said.”

The Senate was seeking to restore some of the SELA funding cuts for 2006. But now it’s too late.

One project that a contractor had been racing to finish this summer: a bridge and levee job right at the 17th Street Canal, site of the main breach on Monday.

The Newhouse News Service article published Tuesday night observed, “The Louisiana congressional delegation urged Congress earlier this year to dedicate a stream of federal money to Louisiana’s coast, only to be opposed by the White House. ... In its budget, the Bush administration proposed a significant reduction in funding for southeast Louisiana’s chief hurricane protection project. Bush proposed $10.4 million, a sixth of what local officials say they need.”

Local officials are now saying, the article reported, that had Washington heeded their warnings about the dire need for hurricane protection, including building up levees and repairing barrier islands, “the damage might not have been nearly as bad as it turned out to be.”

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313

Earlier I made a comment to the effect that looters were basically saying, “What can I steal for myself during this tragedy” and I wanted to clarify the presumption that they were acting like criminals. Stealing medicine, food and clothing in order to survive is understandable. Yet from the beginning I noticed videos of looters taking other things.

Law enforcement efforts to contain the emergency left by Katrina slipped into chaos in parts of New Orleans Tuesday with some police officers and firefighters joining looters in picking stores clean.

At the Wal-Mart on Tchoupitoulas Street, an initial effort to hand out provisions to stranded citizens quickly disintegrated into mass looting. Authorities at the scene said bedlam erupted after the giveaway was announced over the radio.
While many people carried out food and essential supplies, others cleared out jewelry racks and carted out computers, TVs and appliances on handtrucks.

Some officers joined in taking whatever they could, including one New Orleans cop who loaded a shopping cart with a compact computer and a 27-inch flat-screen television.

Officers claimed there was nothing they could do to contain the anarchy, saying their radio communications have broken down and they had no direction from commanders. . . .

Inside the store, one woman was stocking up on make-up. She said she took comfort in watching police load up their own carts.

“It must be legal,” she said. “The police are here taking stuff, too.”

http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_Times-Picayune/archives/2005_08.html#075179

While these rubes were having the shopping experiences of their lives, others were drowning. How many could have been saved if the looters were concentrating on saving lives instead of portraying contestants in an un-filmed episode of “Supermarket Sweep“?

If these are examples of what society will resort to when laws cannot be enforced, it is shameful. I cannot imagine being in a situation where jewelry or a clothes dryer would be so easy to steal but I hope that I would pass the opportunities by. Someone’s insurance may cover it but the principle is what counts. You don’t act like that during a situation like this one. Not if you’re a decent human being.

Comments:

Page 1 of 3 pages  1 2 3 >

JC1958 United States Posted on 09/05/2005 at 07:51 PM

JC1958 pic

It has been said we must all conserve on energy. How much fuel does Air Force One and its entourage use with their fly-bys of the devastation down south? Like Bush really cares. Big deal, they pooled in the same jet. Real concsientious and conservative.

Matt United States Posted on 09/05/2005 at 10:33 PM

Matt pic

regarding the lack on action after Katrina, I didn’t notice any posts about responding to the potential rescue of people.  How come people didn’t act before the event passed?  Anyone who is criticizing the lack of action , needs to refer back to their previous posts alerting people to evacuate.  Looks like the government already put up all those warnings a long time ago.

UDX United States Posted on 09/05/2005 at 11:31 PM

UDX pic

It’s bad enough that people are looting the now chaotic New Orleans.

But when Law Enforcement joins in the looting process, it just proves that the law is slowly falling away at New Orleans and something has to be done without resorting to killing people.

Frumpa Australia Posted on 09/06/2005 at 09:00 AM

Frumpa pic

Well - I’ll tell you why those people did’nt evacuate Matt..More than likely most of the people left behind we’re the poor and homeless and had no damn means of removing themselves from an area as large as the UK.
Petrol here costs $1.40 a litre in Australia,so i shudder to think what it costs you folks over there;by all reports we hear here,the average wage is just $7 per hour in the south.
So Matt..Stop watching Fox and pull your head out of your arse.(gently though)

 Signature 

“We were somewhere around Barstow,on the edge of the desert - when the drugs started to take hold” Hunter S.Thompson

Daniel Medley United States Posted on 09/06/2005 at 11:39 AM

Daniel Medley pic

most of the people left behind we’re the poor and homeless and had no damn means of removing themselves from an area as large as the UK.

Most of the people left behind were able bodied. The last time I checked it didn’t cost anything to put one foot in front of the other.

Ulfrekr United States Posted on 09/06/2005 at 11:59 AM

Ulfrekr pic

Are you seriously suggesting that people should have just WALKED out of New Orleans? I mean, I can’t imagine why so many of the people who stayed behind when they easily could have left chose to do so, but I also can’t imagine anyone just walking the miles and miles to safety.

Daniel Medley United States Posted on 09/06/2005 at 12:31 PM

Daniel Medley pic

Considering the alternative, yes I am suggesting that. Also, a good 5 or 10 miles inland is all it would’ve taken. That’s not very far at all.

I find it unbelievable that someone would find it so difficult to imagine actually walking 5 or 10 miles. For the able bodid it’s not far.

I know for damn sure that’s exactly what I would’ve done.

Ulfrekr United States Posted on 09/06/2005 at 01:47 PM

Ulfrekr pic

If it were only 5 or 10 miles, that does seem doable. I was under the impression that many people would have much further to go, especially given that even the areas that did not flood were not necessarily safe to be in, due to the other weather effects. I guess I can just understand why someone might think they would be better off staying in their home rather than setting out on foot, if those were really their only options, especially since previous hurricanes had not been nearly as bad and the people whose options were so limited probably didn’t have much indication of how bad it was going to get. And I can certainly understand that for some people, say, the 350 lb diabetic woman with several small children who I just heard about, the option of walking or staying was no real option at all. I mean, some people were just going to be effed by this situation no matter how you cut it, and I am hesistant to assume that everyone who died only did so because of their own poor decision-making. Now, what I CAN’T understand is why some people are STILL refusing to leave when they have the chance.

Daniel Medley United States Posted on 09/06/2005 at 02:23 PM

Daniel Medley pic

I agree with much of what you say; I qualified what I said with “able bodied”.

Up until Katrina actually touched land it was a cat 5. Even down-graded to a cat 4 I find it difficult for someone to not be aware of the danger. A few miles inland would certainly be better than in a house next to a levee in an area under sea level.

The day after the flooding I remember a woman crawling from the water and yellilng into the camera, “When are you people gonna get us outta here?!” Compare that attitude with the young man who proactively boosted a bus, drove around and picked people up, pooled their money for gas, and then drove to Texas. One sat around waiting for help and paid the price. The other took some initiative and responsibility for their own safety and faired much better.

I’m just saying.

Brock United States Posted on 09/06/2005 at 04:24 PM

Brock pic

Even as I wrote this entry I was wondering to myself how I would have acted during and after Katrina if I had been in the middle of it.

I’ve been in a couple of hurricane scares since I moved to Charleston and evacuated for another one. The one I evacuated for was pretty scary, according to the friends I had who stayed for it. Still, even though they knew it could be very dangerous to stay, they approached the ordeal with a sense of adventure and wonder at the immensity of the storm and a persistent certainty that it wouldn’t bring disaster.

I, on the other hand, was stuck on the road for 36 hours of stop and go traffic and my car had a clutch. My foot became bruised and I was completely worn out with the ordeal. I kept wishing I had stayed.

One lesson you learn when living in a hurricane prone area is that evacuations take allot of energy and patience. For that reason alone, I understand why so many stayed.

Too, even though they may have heard all their lives about the dangers of a category 4 or 5 storm and that the levees would be useless then, they had always seen the hurricanes pass them by and the levees had always been adequate for the ancillary storms they received. Even if you have the means to leave, in the past it had always been safe enough to stay.

As for the looting and gun play, those are alien actions to me. I can’t imagine being in a state of mind where those responses would be natural, acceptable expressions. Apparently many in the midst of the disaster found a way to reconcile disgust for unlawful behavior. They must have felt very alone and desperate.

Others saw opportunities to benefit from the lack of order and material possessions left unguarded. These would be very selfish individuals no matter how bad or easy the going got.

I also cannot imagine how scary it might feel to know you had nowhere to escape to; no money to make the escape possible and children to care for as you considered your lack of options. I feel many had no options to go but plenty of options to fashion their actions as they stayed. We could have seen better behavior from too many.

Then again, I wasn’t in the ordeal. When you’re experiencing something like that you tend to go with the crowd and do as they do. For all I know, if I had been there, I could now be the owner of 10 TVs and no place to house them.

 Signature 

“At six I was left an orphan.  What the hell is a six year old supposed to do with an orphan?”
Unknown

decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 09/06/2005 at 05:56 PM

Justice United States Posted on 09/06/2005 at 07:24 PM

Justice pic

Even those looting material goods might have done so for survival. If I lost absolutely everything in an environment where it seemed only the strongest would survive, I can’t say I’d be “above” looting some jewelry to sell later --I have people depending on me for their own survival. (I would think people without houses aren’t looting televisions for a personal stash, but maybe so) I’m not saying none of those looters represent our worst kind, I just hate to assume I can tell them apart from this side of the news media.

BunBun United States Posted on 09/06/2005 at 09:19 PM

BunBun pic

The thing that gets me is how easily this could have been averted. Bush could have given the requested money to the people working on the levee. I heard somewhere that the average cost per day in Iraq was multiple millions of dollars(I dont know if that is true but it sounds like it could be). I cant quite remeber now. Bush could have waited a few days and he would have the money for the levees. Or maybe not have built about 20 cruise missiles which I belive are priced somewhere around 2 million apiece. That would have given 40 million dollars more to the levees. So I guess war is more damaging than most americans seemed to have thought…

Cheers BunBun

 Signature 

Cheers BunBun[color=red]

shana United States Posted on 09/06/2005 at 09:40 PM

shana pic

RE: evacuating on foot...even able-bodied people would have been in great danger out in the middle of a storm.  And how could they have brought enough provisions?  I mean, similar to what Brock said, they could be stranded in a flooded house or out in the open with little food or water.  The best strategy--it’s a toss up.
Plus, I can imagine a bit of fear about what could be perceived as stealing a bus or losing what little bit of home and resources you have to the storm.

 Signature 

“Like reindeer in the sky you can.”

JC1958 United States Posted on 09/06/2005 at 09:57 PM

JC1958 pic

Well said. We can sit in the comfort zone called home and say “i’d do this: I’d do that. We do not know. we can only speculate.
The blatant lies by the Bush administration is what I feel is appalling. How come FEMA head known as Brownie didn’t “know” about the people at the convention center in NO and I’m here at my computer in Peoria, IL and I knew about the people there before Thursday.
It seems to me that it is the action or lack thereof by the Feds that mirror how they feel about the poor, whether they are red, white, black, or any other color.

ingolfson Germany Posted on 09/07/2005 at 03:32 AM

ingolfson pic

Whatever the ups and downs of evacuating on foot - there were multiple hospitals right in the flood zone which were neither evacuated beforehand nor within an acceptable timeframe afterwards…

Daniel Medley United States Posted on 09/07/2005 at 04:20 AM

Daniel Medley pic

The blatant lies by the Bush administration is what I feel is appalling.

What blatant lies would you be talking about? Do you have an example or a source that refers to “blatant lies”? Why do people keep trying to push the responsibilities of city and state government onto the federal level? Bottom line; all facts point to failures on the state and local level as to why this tragedy happened.

The Washington Times says:

Ray Nagin, the mayor, ordered a “mandatory” evacuation a day late, but kept the city’s 2,000 school buses parked and locked in neat rows when there was still time to take the refugees to higher ground. The bright-yellow buses sit ruined now in four feet of dirty water. Then the governor, Kathleen Blanco, resisted early pleas to declare martial law, and her dithering opened the way for looters, rapists and killers to make New Orleans an unholy hell.

Also, the Army Corps of Engineers says:

. . .a lack of funding for hurricane-protection projects around New Orleans did not contribute to the disastrous flooding that followed Hurricane Katrina.

I know that you Bush haters are drooling at the prospect that you can use this tragedy as a means of getting him but that dog doesn’t hunt. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for pissing all over GW but this isn’t one of them. By attempting to use this tragedy for leverage you are simply marginailzing any legitimate gripes you may have.

I’m just saying.

Frumpa Australia Posted on 09/07/2005 at 08:25 AM

Frumpa pic

I have no political agenda Daniel;But I tell you I reckon most people cling to the basics whether logical or not..this is home, these are my friends,surely this could’nt happen to us!...so we damn these people for thier ignorance and complacence? - well personally i’m symphphetic and I feel sorry for you with your little heart of stone.

 Signature 

“We were somewhere around Barstow,on the edge of the desert - when the drugs started to take hold” Hunter S.Thompson

Patness Canada Posted on 09/07/2005 at 10:40 AM

Patness pic

In Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada, in 1999, I had a friend whose father was on the police force. They’d already put the officers on standby to enter a state of martial law in case Y2K brought about pandemonium. I’d imagine that with as many people staying behind as there were in NO, the order would have been in effect almost immediately. I think, at this point, finger-pointing is useless. To be fair, it took everyone of any importance lying, screwing up, and covering their own butts to let things slide wickedly out of control.

Also, I can’t see funding into research leading to reinforced weather defenses anytime soon; so I don’t think the gripes regarding the funding for Army Corps is legitimate, and being that they have asserted the same suggests that the GW bashers are the reason why there are any gripes at all, on that front.

And, Frumpa, I have to agree with Mr. Medley here; it sucks that there are so many people that didn’t get out of there, but I’m not gonna pity them. They made a choice - a hard choice, but a choice - and they ended up on the wrong side of it. Nature isn’t kind; it’s primitive and brutal. As individuals, we typically set ourselves in unhealthy paths long before they ever become problems. But it’s like most of us to complain that there are problems as soon as they arise. They may have been naive, but, as of yet, it isn’t practical for the responsibility for those decisions to lie on anyone but the individual.

I don’t require that everyone make the right decisions for their own lives, but I don’t require that everyone survive a hurricane, either. People of note live and die all the time without my knowledge - they don’t need my knowing so for it to be any more or less important, if you place any value on human life across-the-board.

 Signature 

The Kidney Punch Of Legendary Peace

One sure and primary and fundamental fact is the joint existence of a subject and of its world. The one does not exist without the other. I acquire no understanding of myself except as I take account of objects, of the surroundings. I do not think unless I think of things — and there I find myself. - Bruce Lee

Daniel Medley United States Posted on 09/07/2005 at 12:30 PM

Daniel Medley pic

well personally i’m symphphetic and I feel sorry for you with your little heart of stone.

Is that your only argument? Feeeelings will do nothing to help prevent this from happening again. Learning from the reality of what and why will.

Ulfrekr United States Posted on 09/07/2005 at 02:34 PM

Ulfrekr pic

Feeeelings will do nothing to help prevent this from happening again. Learning from the reality of what and why will.

Don’t you think that having some empathy for the people who stayed behind will better enable us to understand WHY they did so, and thus prevent other people from making that choice in the future? Tbe fact of the matter is that everyone who stayed behind was not necessarily either stupid or ignorant, and writing them off as such does little towards advancing our understanding of this situation. Of course, some of the people who stayed behind probably did do so for stupid and/or ignorant reasons, and addressing that problem is also a necessary step in preventing this from happening again. Maybe we ultimately can’t save people from their own ignorance, but we probably have a moral obligation to try our best to do so. That means trying even better the next time this happens.

Ulfrekr United States Posted on 09/07/2005 at 02:46 PM

Ulfrekr pic

And from a purely pragmatic, entirely selfish standpoint, the next time this sort of this happens I’d rather my tax money be spent on really helping people to get the hell out than on medical treatment and body disposal, which is almost certainly more expensive. I don’t think it does me any good to just say “Fuck the ignorant people.”

Daniel Medley United States Posted on 09/07/2005 at 03:07 PM

Daniel Medley pic

Don’t you think that having some empathy for the people who stayed behind will better enable us to understand WHY they did so, and thus prevent other people from making that choice in the future?

No, I don’t. This sort of thinking baffles me and it’s completley pointless. People make choices and bear the consequences.

The Mayor made the choice to not call for an evacuation in a timely manner.

The Mayor chose to not follow N.O.’s evacuation plan that called for using municipal buses for the evacuation and instead chose to let 2000 buses be destroyed.

Many able-bodied people made the choice to ignore the evacuation and suffered the consequences.

Hell, even now people are refusing to leave. Who’s fault is it when they suffer the consequences, Bush?

Tbe fact of the matter is that everyone who stayed behind was not necessarily either stupid or ignorant, and writing them off as such does little towards advancing our understanding of this situation.

Did I ever say anything about anybody being “stupid or ignorant”?

Ulfrekr United States Posted on 09/07/2005 at 03:34 PM

Ulfrekr pic

Don’t you think that having some empathy for the people who stayed behind will better enable us to understand WHY they did so, and thus prevent other people from making that choice in the future?
No, I don’t. This sort of thinking baffles me and it’s completley pointless. People make choices and bear the consequences.

This would be fine, expect we’re ALL bearing the consequences, not just the people who made the choices. From the tax dollars being spent on medical care and emergency evacuation to the extra hours of government time that will be spent on this rather than other issues, we’re all paying for the people who chose to stay behind, whether we feel any personal concern for them or not.

Hell, even now people are refusing to leave. Who’s fault is it when they suffer the consequences, Bush?

I never said anything about my opinions on who’s fault this was. I’m not pointing fingers. And I really can’t drum up much sympathy for anyone who thinks they shouldn’t be even nominally responsible for their own welfare, in any situation. I’m just saying that simply because something is YOUR fault doesn’t mean it can’t also be MY problem. And I just don’t see why anyone would take umbrage with the notion that it really sucks that so many people stayed behind, for whatever reason, and it couldn’t hurt for us to try and figure out what to do about that in the future. Is that really such a radical viewpoint?

Patness Canada Posted on 09/07/2005 at 04:38 PM

Patness pic

I dunno Ulfrekr, when the refrain comes up about why they would ever stay, I think Frumpa really answered the question already. I agree that we should be trying to understand, but it’s almost impossible to say what should be done when we already know that the best way to survive a Cat.5 hurricane is to simply not be there. That’s, in part, why I mentioned martial law in a previous post - it’s the only legal way to move people who can’t move (take the example of a debilitated person). For everyone else, if the threat of imminent demise isn’t enough, then you always have the option. It’s shameful, though. So much more could have been done, and really, we know what needed to be done. We just didn’t do it.

 Signature 

The Kidney Punch Of Legendary Peace

One sure and primary and fundamental fact is the joint existence of a subject and of its world. The one does not exist without the other. I acquire no understanding of myself except as I take account of objects, of the surroundings. I do not think unless I think of things — and there I find myself. - Bruce Lee

Page 1 of 3 pages  1 2 3 >

Name:

Email:

Location:

URL:

Smileys


Remember my personal information

Notify me of follow-up comments?

Submit the word you see below:


<< Back to main