Frank Turner wants us to pray more.

Posted by Les on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 at 09:26 PM. Read 4548 times. Tags: , ,
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This particular rant won’t mean much to anyone who doesn’t live in the Metro Detroit area and it’s really just me bitching about the same thing I usually bitch about. In other words, if you don’t live in the Metro Detroit area or are just sick of hearing me bitch then you might want to skip this entry.

Tonight while watching the news on the local ABC affiliate (WXYZ Channel 7) I found myself suddenly being berated or implored (I’m not sure which) by local news personality Frank Turner to pray more often. To help out those viewers who were dumb enough to actually ask their TV sets just who the hell Frank thinks they should be praying for, he went on to provide us with a short list of all the people he thought could use an extra devotional or two on their behalf.

Seems Frank is concerned that folks just don’t pray enough and thinks it’s sad that the government has to have a National Day of Prayer to encourage folks to engage in this vital civic duty. I tend to agree with Frank that it’s sad that our government feels the need to encourage us to pray, but for different reasons than the ones he holds.

The fact is, Frank, not everyone holds the same religious outlook as you do. Some of us, such as myself, don’t buy into the idea of a god or gods that are so emotionally needy and insecure that It/They had to create an entire universe and populate it with little beings that have no real purpose beyond telling him how fucking wonderful he/she/it (the god or gods in question) is. Isn’t it bad enough I have to live with a President who got the office by judicial fiat instead of the actual results of a popular election telling me every time I turn around that we all need to pray? I don’t need to hear that crap coming from a local news reporter who’s supposed to be presenting, of all the things, the NEWS.

Yes, yes, I see from your bio on the Channel 7 web site that you are an active member in the local chapter of Life Application Ministries, a fun bunch of people who like to think that all diseases are a result of sin and as such you can cure whatever ails you by seeing your local clergy and getting right with god instead of doing what most people do and visit your local medical doctor. I especially love their claims that you can even overcome genetic diseases that run in your family tree with nothing more than a simple prayer and a lot of faith. Not that it helped a number of people over the years who have refused proper medical treatment in lieu of prayer only to end up dieing from an easily treatable condition. I guess they must have just really pissed god off. Let’s just say that this particular bit of knowledge doesn’t lend much credibility to the idea of you as a spiritual leader.

Which is beside the point anyway. I turned on your newscast in order to get caught up on the news, not on your personal opinions about how often and for whom you happen to think people should be praying. I suppose it’s really my fault in the end because I knew there was some reason that it’s been about 4 years since I last seriously tried to watch a newscast on that particular channel. After your little bit of public proselytizing it suddenly occurred to me that I stopped watching news on that channel because I felt the level of journalistic professionalism displayed by the anchors actually made the folks at the local FOX station look like absolute news geniuses. So here’s my totally unsolicited personal opinion that I hope you’ll take to heart: Concentrate more on providing the news and less on trying to be a TV evangelist and perhaps I’ll try watching the station again in another 4 years.

Comments:

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Les United States Posted on 01/30/2004 at 03:46 PM

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Here we go again…

I, for one, agree with Frank. Those of you who don’t give your hearts to God willfully will never experience true inner peace. You value money over family, and value material possessions over friendship and love.

Pardon my language, but how the fuck would you know if I value money over family and material possessions over friendship and love? How do you have any clue how close to “true inner peace” I might happen to be, whatever it means in the first place. You don’t know jack shit about me, lady. If you had spent some time reading this blog over the course of many weeks you might have some insight into what I value, but then if you had done that you wouldn’t be making the statement you made above ‘cause you’d already know it’s not true.

Prayer is a way of creating inner peace. Imagine if Osama Bin Laden would’ve learned about forgiveness and was walking the Christian life? 5 000 people would still be alive today. The U.S. would not be at war.

Perhaps. Of course, it’s not like Christians aren’t responsible for bloodshed of their own. If the Catholics and Protestants weren’t constantly at each other’s throats in Ireland then there’s lots of people there who wouldn’t be dead now either.

Before my rededication in last October, I was someone who went to bars, argued with my parents frequently, decided I could succeed without needing God. God’s idea of success is huge compared to yours. You dream of working for the big 3, He dreams of you developing more sucess and making more money than you could ever imagine, but not without experiencing His level of happiness.

If I’m not supposed to be concerned about material possessions then why would God dream of me having more success and earning more money than I could ever imagine? And I already work for one of the “big 3” so there’s nothing dream about in that regard. For that matter, I don’t believe in God and yet I also don’t go to bars, argue with my parents or worry about succeeding. Sounds like the only difference between us is that you need an imaginary playmate to do what I did on my own.

Prayer works only if it’s not done selfishly.

I’ve yet to see even selfless prayers have much of an effect, but whatever floats your boat.

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All I know is the wine lasts longer when you don’t gotta share it with someone
All I know is my steak tastes better when I take my steak tastes better pill
-- I Feel Fantastic, Jonathan Coulton

Vicki United States Posted on 02/07/2004 at 08:28 AM

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Hey, (I have a new e-address, I’m not hiding)...anyway...what or who do you non believers thank when you have a good day or when you see a beautiful sunset or look at a brand new baby.  I thank GOD!!!

Tish Australia Posted on 02/07/2004 at 08:55 AM

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If a good day is due to another human being’s actions..I’ll thank them if I can. Thanks Les :wink:

If I see a beautiful sunset, I sometimes thank my physics lecturers for their explanations. Otherwise it’s a totally natural event, why does anyone need to be thanked for that?

As for the baby, I’d thank the parents for not giving birth to a really ugly sprog :devil:

Les United States Posted on 02/07/2004 at 11:32 AM

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I’m with Tish on this one (and you’re welcome Tish).

Why do you think we need to thank anyone for something that happens naturally that we find amazing? It’s kind of a stupid question, really.

Certainly if you believe God created everything then you might be inclined to “thank” him for the good parts, but then that begs the question of: Do you bitch God out for all the bad parts he created to go along with it?

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All I know is the wine lasts longer when you don’t gotta share it with someone
All I know is my steak tastes better when I take my steak tastes better pill
-- I Feel Fantastic, Jonathan Coulton

Vicki United States Posted on 02/09/2004 at 11:38 AM

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I’m curious, where do people go who happen to be independent of a God of salvation.

Les United States Posted on 02/09/2004 at 11:50 AM

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Where do we go? To Denny’s. They’re open 24 hours you know.

Silliness aside, I’m assuming you meant to add “when they die” to the end of your sentence. In which case the answer is “we” don’t “go” anywhere. “We,” as an active and self-aware entity, no longer exist after “we” die. But then you probably knew that answer already so one has to wonder why you’d ask it.

Was it just to avoid answering the questions we asked of you previously? Or are you planning to address them sometime soon?

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All I know is the wine lasts longer when you don’t gotta share it with someone
All I know is my steak tastes better when I take my steak tastes better pill
-- I Feel Fantastic, Jonathan Coulton

Brock United States Posted on 02/09/2004 at 01:08 PM

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Vicki, I’m getting the impression you don’t really believe what you say you believe and are looking for discussions to shore up your considerations.
If believing in a singular God makes your life worthwhile, more’s the better, but I get the impression you still doubt your faith’s validity.

Besides offering trite platitudes and nebulous absolutes, what have you really got to say? That God loves us and wishes us to know him? Then he should do a press conference or two! He should stop sneaking around and start bashing the heads of the infidels. So far all we have to go on to justify belief in him is sunsets, furry little puppies and hate filled preachers who make far too much money and do very little to positively represent a just and loving God. In fact they seem to enjoy the smiting and vengeful aspects of their God more than the child loving, homeless helping, miracle creating aspects.

Listen to anyone talk about his/her faith and sooner or later he or she will get around to emphasizing the certainty of hell and damnation. If Christianity is such a great deal, no one would need to use intimidation and fear tactics to justify it - You only go that route when what you’re proposing lacks merit and appeal.

For the record, I believe we continue to exist after death, but we don’t suffer judgment by a supreme being who will then chuck or keep us according to His estimation of our worth.

So, knowing that about me - what’a ya got for me?

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“At six I was left an orphan.  What the hell is a six year old supposed to do with an orphan?”
Unknown

Vicki United States Posted on 02/25/2004 at 09:27 PM

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Ahh...So you don’t think im grounded in my belief.  Well, you are wrong.  Im just not sure how you feel so sure about something you don’t know.  I believe in God and in life with Him after we die.  I also believe He gave His son, Jesus, to save me from hell.  He died for me and ...like it or not...you.  I can’t debate in anger or it just becomes a mud bath.  I am more into understanding why you don’t believe in God.  I see Him in everything.  Yes, even in the horrers of life.  We messed up...not God. I fully expect to be jumped on for this one...but thats how I feel. I love God and am certainly not ashamed to say so.  Everyone believes in something.  If not God, than its going to manifest into believing in something.  God has put that in us.  So I guess my question is, what do you believe in? If you believe there is something after we die...than what is it?  I have said before, I don’t know how or why I believe in God, I just do.  That isn’t any different than you NOT believing in God. 
God is the most important part of my life.  He IS my life.  I’m not one of those so called HATE FILLED preachers.  If they are preaching down to you I have to question their walk with God.  I really do love people and that is what is lacking in so called Evangelical Christians.  We are not suppose to judge you or anyone else who doesn’t have an understanding of God or His ways.

Les United States Posted on 02/25/2004 at 10:15 PM

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Vicki, put a cork in it for chrissakes. You sound like every other broken record who shows up here anymore. You love God, you believe in God, God died for all our sins whether we like it or not, blah blah blah blah…

Great. I’m happy you’ve bought so fully into your fantasy, but no matter how many times you repeat the same tired mantra that’s not going to make it any more of a reality.

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All I know is the wine lasts longer when you don’t gotta share it with someone
All I know is my steak tastes better when I take my steak tastes better pill
-- I Feel Fantastic, Jonathan Coulton

Pedro United States Posted on 06/14/2005 at 06:40 PM

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[Those] who have an excessive faith in their theories or in their ideas are not only poorly disposed to make discoveries, but they also make very poor observations.
--Claude Bernard (1813-78) French physiologist, 1865.

Shall I refuse my dinner because I do not fully understand the process of digestion?
--Oliver Heaviside (1850-1925) English physicist.

The chess-board is the world; the pieces are the phenomena of the universe; the rules of the game are what we call the laws of Nature. The player on the other side is hidden from us. We know that his play is always fair, and patient. But also we know, to our cost, that he never overlooks a mistake, or makes the smallest allowance for ignorance.
--Thomas Henry Huxley (1825-95) English biologist.

Innocence about Science is the worst crime today.
--Sir Charles Percy Snow (1905-80) English novelist and scientist.

Nature and Nature’s laws lay hid in night,
God said: “Let Newton be!”, and all was light.
--Alexander Pope (1688-1744) English poet.

If we dont play God, who will?
--James Watson on uk TV channel 4, DNA The Story Of Life. London 8 th March.

Om India Posted on 09/25/2005 at 04:26 PM

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ewwwwwwww.
You do look weird, stupid and evil.
lol.
Anyway.
Be good.
Bye.
lol.
lol.

Brock United States Posted on 09/25/2005 at 06:05 PM

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I’m thinking Om is too young to comment on here. Commenters should be at least 10 years old, in my opinion.

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“At six I was left an orphan.  What the hell is a six year old supposed to do with an orphan?”
Unknown

Les United States Posted on 09/25/2005 at 07:31 PM

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It’s always nice to see the idiots are getting a chance to learn how to use computers.

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All I know is the wine lasts longer when you don’t gotta share it with someone
All I know is my steak tastes better when I take my steak tastes better pill
-- I Feel Fantastic, Jonathan Coulton

LuckyJohn19 Australia Posted on 11/28/2006 at 06:30 AM

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I’m much more optimistic - I’d like to think some of them ‘try’ to read a little too and you never know when or how seeds will flourish.

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I’ve discovered that it all boils down to brain wiring: your brain is wired to worship magic or it isn’t, either it’s wired to utilize logic or it isn’t, either it’s analytical of myths or it isn’t.

jory United States Posted on 11/28/2006 at 02:51 PM

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can i cure my narcolepsy with a prayer to? thats all i had to do? prayer is a complete waste of time, the time others spend praying, they should be spending taking action to make change.

prayer is a way of creating inner peace

if that does it for you, as for me, talking to myself never helped.

Josh United States Posted on 12/13/2006 at 09:52 PM

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The notion that faith in Christ is to be rewarded by an eternity of bliss, while a dependence upon reason, observation and experience merits everlasting pain, is too absurd for refutation, and can be relieved only by that unhappy mixture of insanity and ignorance, called “faith.”
-- Robert Green Ingersoll, The Gods

Bahamat Great Britain (UK) Posted on 12/13/2006 at 10:11 PM

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Even if god did exist I doubt he would create people only to worship him, but who knows?

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You don’t need to end all existence to end all suffering

Jeremy United States Posted on 12/28/2006 at 11:52 AM

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All we can really do is pray for Les people.  He has turned away from God.

Les United States Posted on 12/28/2006 at 04:11 PM

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Pray all you want to, Jeremy. It’s not done any good so far and I doubt your efforts will be any different.

 Signature 

All I know is the wine lasts longer when you don’t gotta share it with someone
All I know is my steak tastes better when I take my steak tastes better pill
-- I Feel Fantastic, Jonathan Coulton

tonetones United States Posted on 08/13/2007 at 09:04 AM

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let’s just suppose for a moment that God really does not exist- we are here until we die- some live a good healthy life- others a horrible one - when we die that’s it- were done-

How do you get up every morning to this evil, miserable, hateful world - where anger and hatred reign supreme?

WHAT IS THERE TO LIVE FOR?

JUST CURIOUS!

elwedriddsche United States Posted on 08/13/2007 at 09:15 AM

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Let’s just suppose for a moment that God really does exist. How do you get up every morning to this evil, miserable, hateful word—where anger and hatred reign surpreme?

Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. If God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?

--Epicurus

No problem for atheists. Shit happens and you roll with the punches.

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Science is answers that must always be questioned.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.
Religion is answers that must never be questioned.
Politics is answers that lobbyists pay for.

Bahamat Great Britain (UK) Posted on 08/13/2007 at 04:06 PM

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tonetones: WHAT IS THERE TO LIVE FOR?

Only emotions can give existence any meaning, god or no god. If the world doesn’t please you, perhaps shape it into an image you find more pleasing, or just accept it

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You don’t need to end all existence to end all suffering

Les United States Posted on 08/13/2007 at 05:27 PM

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TonesTones asks…

WHAT IS THERE TO LIVE FOR?

Well, for a start, there’s sex and ice cream.

Not necessarily in that order or necessarily separately.

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All I know is the wine lasts longer when you don’t gotta share it with someone
All I know is my steak tastes better when I take my steak tastes better pill
-- I Feel Fantastic, Jonathan Coulton

Matt United States Posted on 01/08/2008 at 11:08 PM

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I’ve read this chain of posts and I must say Les, you da man! Although I try to be a spiritually motivated person, I certainly don’t judge and choose to disrespect those whose beliefs differ from my own. As some 12-step groups say, “Live and let live”. Kepp on keepin’ on, brother!!

Let me just address a couple points here. Firstly, I remember when Frank Turner got fired from his TV job due to his alcoholism. And I remember as well when he found God and got sober. Fuck, the whole of southeastern Michigan should well remember it because Mr. Turner was, after all, going on TV every chance he got telling the whole world what a wonderful man he was now that he was newly sober, how his life had turned completely around, how everyone should live the life he’s lived and found God the way he did. His arrogance and ego were plastered all over the TV as he practically begged TV stations to give him a job. He chose to display himself as the example of real recovery from alcoholism using the 12-steps of AA. Being a recovering alcoholic in AA myself for a bit over 15 years, I’ve learned a few things. 1. In general, and as stated in AA’s “Twelve Traditions”, our type of recovery is based on ‘attraction rather than promotion’. Mr. Turner apparantly didn’t read that part of the AA program as he was basically whoring himself to every televised news outlet in the metro Detroit area. And for those that didn’t know, as soon as he got his job back he left AA and went into preaching in church (not to mention the thing about telling people to pray more whilst he is supposed to be delivering the news). If Mr. Turner was actually ‘working the program’, as we say it, he wouldn’t have felt any need to run around all over the city doing everything he could possibly do to use AA as a means of getting a job. He is a fraud in my humble opinion, and I have no respect for him or his recovery whatsoever.

Secondly, to Vicky and the others who claim to be Christians: Who are you to judge? Where does your bible tell you that it’s ok to judge others, and look down your nose at those whose beliefs, thoughts and mores are different from your own? Where did God himself ask you to speak for Him? You are all frauds as well. You claim to be such good, loving, faithful people...and yet you curse others, judge them, convict them for their beliefs, and worst of all you condescend and act as if you’re better than everybody else simply because....what? Because God loves you more? Because you think you can speak for God (as if he needs your tiny little voice to speak for Him in the first damn place)? What, oh wonderful Christians, ever happened to “Love Thy Neighbos As Thyself!”? “Do unto other as you would have done to you”? “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”? Pull your heads out of your collective asses and start practicing what you preach instead of acting, if you’ll pardon the expression’ holier-than-thou. You don’t represent God, and you certainly don’t represent God’s love. You are the reason people turn away from God, because of all your long-winded judgementalism, hyprocrisy and twisting of words and truth to fit your own personal agenda.

Stop questioning peoples intelligence, character, moral fabric and honesty unless and until you seriously question your own. Why worry about the sliver in your brothers eye when you have a plank in your own? I’d close by saying that I will pray for you all but I won’t, because I have no intention of praying for you. Mainly because God’s gonna do what God’s gonna do whether I pray or not. As opposed to you and your ego, I don’t really think I am so important in God’s plan that he needs my approval to do His will, so I’ll leave the prayers for you to do. But when you do pray, please ask Him to open YOUR eyes the same way you want Him to open the eyes of all you have judged today.

The Man United States Posted on 02/28/2008 at 11:19 AM

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Have you seen this on Frank Turner yet, turns out you are not his only fan…

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Frank_Turner

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