Interesting that Renee and Rebecca share the same IP address. You’d think the person involved would at least try to disguise their typing when switching from one name to the other. Perhaps they suffer from Multiple Personality Disorder?

Gotta love Christians who resort to dishonesty to try and prove their point.

Les

I�m Mild Bill�s �good� twin Righteous Bill.  Mild Bill is a jerk and he is evil and so are you too also and I hate both of you because you are evil and are jerks and I�m going to pray for you because I love you both.  Sybil/Renee/Rebecca is/are/am right about you.  Your IP address is probably 666.666.666.666, whatever an IP address is.

I know what you�re thinking�you need 10-bits to represent the number 666 in binary.  Well if you had faith, not only could it move mountains, you could represent 10-bit numbers with only 8-bits, whatever a bit is and whatever binary is.  I believe they are both the work of Satan, just like Evolution and telemarketers.  See, that�s proof that you are a loser and god does exist!  I almost forgot, Mild Bill is a jerk and you are too also.

It is possible that Rebecca/Sybil/Renee is/are/am just sharing a computer Les, just like me and my evil twin Mild Bill.  Did you ever consider that Les?  They should call you Hope-Les.  You�ll have a lot of time to think about that in hell, where they only have dial-up service and no quality of service guarantees�no broadband for sinners (whatever broadband is).  Oh oh, here comes Mild Bill�gotta go!  See you later my friend.

Righteous Bill

Hey Les, how goes it? I’ve been busy and have not had time to write lately.  It’s nice to know some things never change though.  You still are the sniveling, delusional whiner you’ve always been.  Your arguments are as puerile as ever.  When you can’t come up with what you percieve to be a clever put down, you resort to the old Madelyn Murray-O’Hare cliches from Atheism 101. It must be frustrating to be such a bitter person. Is it so bad where you are, that you have to “rant” about so many things?  I can guess that it must be depressing to believe that there is no real truth to know; all knowledge is subject to change depending on what is in vogue at any given time.  And with no belief in a God or higher power there can be no absolutes, therefore no right or wrong.This is the underlying flaw in your thinking, because to follow your reasoning to its logical conclusion means that all opinions are equally valid and you have no reason to rant about anything. What a colorless world you must live in, where nothing has any lasting meaning and nothing really matters. For in a 100 years we’ll all be dust. Take care of yourself, buddy.  John.

Hey there John. I see you’re still the same self-delusional asshole who thinks he has everyone figured out and only hears what he wants to hear. Don’t know why you bothered to come back, you had nothing new to offer last time and it’s clear you still have nothing new to offer now.

Please oh great and wise John...relay unto us feeble mortals the absolute truths.  I wish to thirst not, but drink in the abundant well of knowledge that is John.  I eagerly await the virtual world, nay galaxy of knowledge thou shalt deliver unto us.  Be cautious brother John, yes cautious my hale friend, for it is written when you believe in things you don�t understand you suffer.  It would cause me great pain to know that a kindly Christian gentleman, which you obviously are, would have to suffer.

I also caution you about being so judgmental Friar John, for it is also written that he who judges shall not judge lest he be judged by a judge...here come da judge...here come da judge�or something like that.

Come on guys.  Are you going to argue the God thing forever?  Either you believe in God or you don’t. If you can still find your Bible, try looking up 1Corinthians 2:14.  It’s not your fault if you don’t understand.

I understand perfectly, I just do not agree. The bible is a book written by men, interpreted by men, reproduced on printing presses built by men. All of the stories in this book were accounts given by...you got it, men.

Have you ever played that game where a classroom full of people whisper a message from one person to the next and when you finally get to the last person the message is usually so horribly mangled that even the basic message has been lost? Now imagine playing it with billions of people over two thousand years. You obviously have more faith in mankind than I do.

For those without a Bible handy…

1 Corinthians 2:14 :: New International Version (NIV)

1 Corinthians 2
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Yeah, that’s the same statement your professional “psychics” and UFO Nuts like to make as well. One of the best ways to counter criticism is to claim the person making the criticism isn’t capable of understanding what he’s criticizing. Convenient to be sure, but a cop-out at best.

I’ve always been partial to counter the citing of 1 Corinthians 2:14 with yet another Bible verse: Proverb 14:15 which says, “The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.”

He also said (1 Corinthian 1:27) But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise;.  I can plainly see that you are a very intelligent man.  I have read a lot of your responses and am quite impressed.  But, what I also see, is a man who really can’t be called an athiest.  You see, you already know of Him.  So the more you try to prove He is not God the more I believe you really do know there IS a God!!! You might just run into Him trying to prove your case.  Besides, stop feeling so intimidated by us who happen to believe in an awesome God.  What if the Bible were really true?  I have assurance.  And if it’s not true, than at the very least, I have led a moral life and kept out of a whole lot of trouble.  Before me and my husband got in touch with God we were sooooo messed up and God just changed our lives.  (Even if it was one of your aliens, we still have a changed life) So what’s so wrong with us trying to be happy and want others to grab the rope of the ark?  Anyway, I did see your Wedding pictures of you and your family.  You are a very blessed man.  You have a really honest web site and I love honesty. I hope you are not to hard on me for my opinions, cuz I’m a nice person.  (Even before I got saved) Thanks Les,

oh yeah, Hey Eric, If you read about anything that happened over 50 years ago do you believe it?  Because, you see, everything that is HISTORY was written by man, for man and about man.  So your theory is very weak.  Every thing that happened before you were born is subject to interpretation!!  Have a nice day!

Have a nice day? That’s your version of so there?

Anyhow, I happen to take everything with a grain of salt but that does not mean that I assume everything is false. Your big invisible friend god has never been seen (okay maybe as a burning bush here or there) but that is a little too wizard of oz for me. The point I was trying to make is everyone puts their own spin on the story as they it tell to others, and then the person who heard the story adds a little here and forgets a little there until the story is a little different (usually better because let’s face it, who wants to be known as a bore?). I heard a story about how I almost got into a fist fight with a female customer and that had happened one night before, sure I thoroughly pissed her off by standing my ground and refusing to make several color copies of copyrighted work (way beyond ‘fair use’) and she stormed out in a huff after asking for and receiving my manager’s name, but if that is a fist fight I will eat my feet.

Do you believe EVERYTHING you are told, or read, or see in films or on TV? I believe everything IS subject to interpretation if you have any self respect otherwise you will just end up a gullible buffoon. I am happy that your interpretation allows you to believe in something greater than yourself which gives your life direction and meaning. I simply demand greater proof before I dedicate my entire life to the worship of an unproven entity.

Vicki, Vicki, Vicki,

If I read about something that happened ten minutes ago it�s history!  I heard a bomb went off in UN HQ in Baghdad the other day and though I wasn�t there, I tend to believe it.  I worked on supersonic jet fighters for over 20 years and I never SAW one go supersonic, but I believe that they can do so.  I heard Chuck Yeager was the first man to travel supersonic (in level flight) back in 1947.  I wasn�t there, but I believe it.  The difference between these things and the Bible is that they can be independently corroborated.  There are just too many things in the Bible that scream �fable� and there is no way to corroborate events.

If you want to use the Bible to help you lead a good and moral life, that�s entirely cool, but it sounds to me like you are a firm believer in Pascal�s Wager:

What if the Bible were really true? I have assurance. And if it�s not true, than at the very least, I have led a moral life and kept out of a whole lot of trouble.

How do you have assurance of its truth and question this truth at the same time?  I would like nothing better than the Bible to be true, but I just can�t believe it is.  I am not an atheist; I suppose I�m a waffling agnostic I�m also not a Christian, but somehow I have �kept out of trouble�.  I wouldn�t presume to call myself moral�whatever that means�but I try to help people out whenever I can.  The main objection I have with Christians is their never ending crusade to tell me and people like me how screwed up we are; that we are somehow defective because we don�t think like them.

Mmmmmmm...waffles.

Note to self...do not use food metaphors, especially breakfast food, because it distracts Eric

The “What if” quote is not for me, it’s for you.  When I said I have assurance, I mean I do believe in a Heavenly Father and a life after this one.  I in no way am in any doubt about that.  My job is not to convert anyone, it’s to share what has happened to me.  If you don’t buy it, you don’t buy it.  Simple as that.  When I said I was a nice person before I got saved, I was.  It’s just now I understand what It means to live rightious.  You shouldn’t judge me any more than me judging you.  You really mean it when you say you don’t like Christians?  I am no different than the person sitting next to you any given day.  If I offend you or any one else on this site, than please don’t be.  I never intend to.  It’s an open forum and I for one, really enjoy it. As far as interpreting goes.  If you read the Bible, it was written over 4000 years from beginning to end.  So how did these people come up with the same thing.  Interpretation is up to the reader.  If I appear gullable, so do people who believe in Darwin.  It’s just what you feel in your heart, what you choose to believe in.  I don’t give a rats rump if you believe in God or not.

That last statement is not true.  I do care.

One thing I cannot help wondering at is the amount of effort we human beings put into convincing other people of our own faith. Surely that time and effort would be better spent strengthening our own faith and building appreciation, perhaps even examining what we believe, and making sure we actually do believe it, and that it’s not just someone elses ideal we have blindly accepted?

I can see how the debate over wether there is a god or not is an important one to many people. Although I must admit I find it amusing that even among groups who accept that there is a god, they still cannot agree on exactly what he is like, or which faith he actually approves of.

After spending many years accepting the beliefs being taught me by a christian sect, I began to realise merely accepting a ready made set of beliefs wasn’t right for me. I mean if there actually is a god, and we are all personally accountable to him, then it’s not going to do much good telling him ‘Well you know what god, when you boil it all down those weren’t really my personal beliefs, they are just what I was taught...’

Vicki

I misunderstood and now realize you were directing your statements/questions about the Bible to us.  I�m glad that you care (and do rats have rumps?) I didn�t say I disliked Christians; I said I dislike those who view me as a defective person.  I guess it�s like feet.  I don�t hate people with feet, but I dislike people with stinky feet.  In summary, you could say I love the feet, but hate the stink (sound familiar?)

Seriously, I also appreciate this forum as an opportunity for open and honest discussion.  I did not mean to imply that you shouldn�t express your views; in fact you are quite civil compared to some folks.  I couldn�t be less concerned with what individuals think, it is when they try to impose themselves on me that I take exception.

Look at the nonsense up in Alabama with the 10 Commandments monument.  Alabama is running a huge budget deficit, has all kinds of serious fiscal problems, and some dude�s rock is the biggest deal in the state!  And of course our law is based on the 10 Commandments�not!  Do you know of anyone convicted lately (in an American court) of the following offenses:

Failure to keep the Sabbath holy
Dishonor directed towards a parent
Coveting a neighbor�s wife

AAAAHHHHHHH!!!  DARWIN AGAIN!!!

Why does everyone bring up Darwin; as if no one has done any work in the field for 150 years!  It would be like me quoting the minutes of the 1845 Southern Baptist Convention and demanding a present day Baptist defend it!  In his day, Martin Luther advocated the annihilation of all Jews.  I�ll stroll over to the Lutheran Church down the street and demand they apologize for Herr Luther.

In your estimation, what horrible thing did this obscure �limey� do?  Can you state something Darwin wrote, not what someone �said� he wrote, that would justify your position?  Please relate something Darwin incorrectly stated then find me someone alive today that believes it.  At the beginning of �Origin of Species�, Darwin himself explains that his theories were not completely developed and probably full of errors.  You can view the full text of �Origin of Species� and �Descent of Man� on numerous websites.  �Descent� is veerrrrry interesting, but you would be hard pressed to find someone today, with an IQ higher than room temperature, who believes many of Darwin�s �scientific findings� in that text.

Hey Mild Bill,
I love the way you respond.  You can make a point and not get any feathers ruffled.  Good job!!  I believe...hmmmmmm....anyway, I believe Darwin was the first one to show by X-ray that man evolved from a fish.  Now I could be wrong, so take it easy on me.  I did finish High School,(although I’m not sure how).  I am definatly going to look that one up.  Talk to you later.

P.S.  I do, however know that for a fact, Rats have Rumps. 

Charles Darwin’s first edition of his work Origin of Species was published in 1859 and the last printing of his sixth edition was in 1890. Charles Darwin died on April 19, 1882. The first X-Ray ever was taken by Wilhelm Conrad R�ntgen of his wife’s hand which clearly revealed her wedding ring and her bones on November 15, 1895.

Seeing as that’s a full 13 years after Darwin’s death it’s highly unlikely that Charles Darwin ever used X-Rays to show how man evolved from a fish. That hasn’t stopped the claim being very popular among Creationists, who seem keen to believe it regardless of the impossibility of it.

I plan to respond to some of your other comments, Vicki, but have limited time at the moment.

Les

I�m not sucking up mind you, but YOU DA MAN!  Not only did you know that Roentgen took the first x-ray, but you also figured out how to spell his name with an umlaut(�) As Yoda would say, �Impressed I am with that�. 

Vicki, I am no great fan of Darwin, but the guy did get the ball rolling.  Most things blamed on Darwin though come under the category of urban legend.  And many of the people making those claims (Southern Baptists) need to remove the �forest� from their eye before criticizing the speck in Darwin�s eye.

When you read his work, just remember that he was a 19th century man, with 19th century values.  You can�t really judge people from the past in the context of the present.  I�ll wager that 200 years from now, our progeny will view us as a bunch of quaint, but ignorant primitives.  They�ll wonder why millions of us died from cancer, AIDS, and other easily treatable diseases when the cures were so simple!

A big ol “good job” guys.  I love people who know there stuff.  I want this debate to go on, but Im pressed this weekend.  Keep them cards and letters commin!!:)

Spend eternity praising god ?
This is a reward ?
Jeeze (sic) what an ego.
Wouldn’t a card on his birthday be enough ? (oh right ,sorry)

I have to say I always love hearing about idiots being idiots especially when they are far away from me so kudos Les for this wonderful story. Though it makes me wonder what it would be like to get a christian rocker to listen to that song “sympathy for the devil” from guns n’ roses.

I, for one, agree with Frank.  Those of you who don’t give your hearts to God willfully will never experience true inner peace.  You value money over family, and value material possessions over friendship and love. 

Prayer is a way of creating inner peace.  Imagine if Osama Bin Laden would’ve learned about forgiveness and was walking the Christian life?  5 000 people would still be alive today.  The U.S. would not be at war. 

Before my rededication in last October, I was someone who went to bars, argued with my parents frequently, decided I could succeed without needing God. God’s idea of success is huge compared to yours.  You dream of working for the big 3, He dreams of you developing more sucess and making more money than you could ever imagine, but not without experiencing His level of happiness.

Prayer works only if it’s not done selfishly.