I like music, but I wonder why. There is no clear reason why music (or art for that matter) have effects on the mind, yet they do. Music is different from noise in that it can have direction, symetry, repeats, and other patterns.

Music doesn’t correspond with much in nature so it’s difficult to see that it was specifically intended by evolution but it could be an unintended side effect of improvements to the mind. Music with no words also sounds nice so it isn’t to do with actually meaning something. Stranger still music can instill emotion, even fear in the case of the music you hear as for example you see Frank in the film Donnie Darko.

TSO will be happy.

The Foundation’s website and the search engine (very slow at the moment)

I am most pleased!

Distanct Claws: Music doesn’t correspond with much in nature so it’s difficult to see that it was specifically intended by evolution but it could be an unintended side effect of improvements to the mind.

Music is a form of art, and it has generally been believed that art is strictly a human endeavor (although in recent years there has been some speculation to the contrary). After all, it is that elusive concept of culture that has been used to distinguish humans from all other animals, and music is as much an aspect of culture as language. Culture is perhaps the primary non-biological mechanism by which humans have evolved over the years. In that sense, music can be viewed as beneficial in an evolutionary sense, even if it may not be hard-wired into our genes.

I think I am incredibly stupid or sumptin, but I cannot get any music to play.  And yes speakers are on, sound works and all that jazz…

distant claws: I like music, but I wonder why.

Maybe you’re a savage beast?

distant claws: Music doesn’t correspond with much in nature so it’s difficult to see that it was specifically intended by evolution but it could be an unintended side effect of improvements to the mind.

I had to read that a couple times to get your point, but I see where you may have some misconceptions - or at least where your post just made it a bit unclear.  The issue I saw was that you implied that music evolved. 

Music didn’t evolve, and neither did the mind, for that matter.  In fact, people don’t even evolve - at least - not individuals.

Instead, species (like Homo Sapiens) evolve.  The fact that our species evolved to become capable of both producing and receiving musical information indicates that - if it were an evolved trait - it must have provided some selection advantage for those individuals who had the trait.  So - if you could come up with a decent account of how music - and specifically - how the ability to create and/or appreciate music - provides a sexual selection advantage, then you’re most of the way to seeing were it fits in nature.

So - what might be an advantage of musical ability?

I’ll tell you: Musicians get laid.  A lot.  There it is - selection at it’s best - musical ability could be one factor in human mate selection. 

OK - that was a bit glib, but there are parallels all throughout nature: Whale songs, bird song, amphibian croaking and even the chirping of crickets.  I don’t have a reference for this, but I’d bet that the best musicians in nature get laid more than their tone deaf peers. 

And Mozart?  If he had lived to be 60 years old, I suspect he would have had 30 or more kids.

Sexy Sadie: (although in recent years there has been some speculation to the contrary).

That’s some cool stuff right there.

SS: Culture is perhaps the primary non-biological mechanism by which humans have evolved over the years. In that sense, music can be viewed as beneficial in an evolutionary sense, even if it may not be hard-wired into our genes

Culture has changed, but my understanding of evolution is entirely based on the statistical chance of genes being passed on, and therefore i’m mainly talking in a biological context. Music does influence the young before they have been much exposed to our culture afterall (i.e. cot music), so there must be something biological.

Music and art could be indirect side consequences of the biological evolution of the mind which occurred under survival pressure to become creative with manipulating the environment; the only thing humans really had going for them when facing predators. As far as direct advantages go the only thing i have heard argued is that it may unite people into a group able to protect each other, but i don’t agree because dogs/wolves don’t require such elaborate instincts to form a pack

Language has clear advantages for survival using pack instinct tatics and since there are dedicated parts of the brain for it, it must also be genetic.

I had to read that a couple times to get your point, but I see where you may have some misconceptions - or at least where your post just made it a bit unclear

I should have phrased it clearer, as you can see above I only see evolution biologically and was trying to identify advantages as being direct/indirect. My reference to not occurring much in nature meant the physical environment that affects our ability to survive as hunter-gatherers such as landscape, weather, food and shelter, not other animals we can’t interpret which may be using it more as language

MP: Musicians get laid.  A lot.  There it is - selection at it’s best - musical ability could be one factor in human mate selection

Well I never have (i’m not a musician), but I’m saving up for it. Anyway I wonder why evolution hasn’t made every animal want to constantly get laid with whatever’s closest, it’s one of those things you would have expected there would be great selection pressure to appear, just like you would expect the need to go to sleep to disapear. Aspects of human thought that resist laying everyone in sight make no clear selection advantage, and yet you have loyalty, different levels of attraction, commitment etc.

D.C.: Language has clear advantages for survival using pack instinct tatics and since there are dedicated parts of the brain for it, it must also be genetic.

You’re quite right about language being a function of the human brain; as such, its acquisition is surely genetic. Current research reveals that the development and widespread use of language most likely went hand-in-hand with the rise of human culture. In that sense we see both biological and non-biological factors working together to influence human evolution.

Michael Peacock: Musicians get laid. A lot.

Of course they do! They’re some of the sexiest people on the planet. 

The creative arts (music, dance, painting, etc) are the unintended consequences of imagination.  Early humans were successful if they could imagine various scenarios and prepare in advance (i.e., prepare tools, save food, etc.).  If they could imagine the consequences of various acts, they would be better prepared to survive them.  So, those who could imagine survived and reproduced. 

Ergo, a healthy imagination leads to survival and Mozart.  Simple, really.

And, yes, I do play the piano, including several works by Mozart.  Many scientists are also musicians.  Probably because science is so creative!
SG

Sadie:

What’s the difference between a musician and a large pepperoni pizza?

The pizza can feed a family of four. 

Consi:

Giggle.