Ending the Myth of Horus

Posted by Consigliere on Monday, January 10, 2005 at 06:43 AM. Read 66003 times. Tags:
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[Editor’s Note: It was my intent to have a reply ready before posting this, but I’ve found myself putting it off due to a busy weekend so I’m going to go ahead and post it as is. I’ll address it properly in the comments as soon as I have the opportunity though I’m sure there are several regulars who will probably be more than capable of addressing it first.]


I’ve heard repeated here several times that Horus, an Egyptian god, is carbon copy of Jesus.  The obvious implication by those that have made this statement is that Jesus is a copycat version of an earlier Egyptian deity.  The purpose of this entry is to disembowel that proposition once and for all.   

When I first heard that Horus was the inspiration for Jesus several years ago, I didn’t give it much credence because I couldn’t establish any source material for the claims.  I still can’t, but the internet is as adept at allowing anybody and everybody to pass on misinformation. 

Upon further research, I’ve concluded that this theory originated with Gerald Massey, an English poet, born 1828, died 1927.  He published primarily poems, but had an interest in Egypt.  He parlayed that interest in Egypt into several books and lectures in which he set forth the proposition that Horus was in essence the first Jesus, and Jesus was a cheap imitation.  The primary basis for his writing is the Egyptian Book of the Dead.  This is available on-line and you can easily look it up to read it yourself.  Be forewarned that forced reading of this would be an extremely efficient form of torture. 

It should be noted that Massey’s actual proposition was that Jesus was a copycat from more than just Horus.  According to Massey, Jesus was a compilation of an innumerable number of Egyptian deities.  There were over 2,000 deities who had every human and godlike characteristic one can think of, excepting Superman’s power to stop a speeding bullet.

Since Massey, there is a dearth of anybody with any credentials that has adopted a straight Horus=Jesus theory.  There is a one individual that has adopted some of Massey’s thoughts and incorporated them into a book-The Christ Conspiracy.  This appears to be the basis for the claims that I see.  The author is Acharya S.  Her website is http://www.truthbeknown.com  I note that Richard Price, a noted Christ Myther, and one that I take much more seriously then Acharya, said the following:

“Those of use who uphold any version of the controversial Christ Myth theory find ourselves immediately the object not just of criticism, but even of ridicule. And it causes us chagrin to be lumped together with certain writers with whom we share the Christ Myth butt little else…..

His other criticism, like mine, is that she uses very dated sources (19th Century) who were in Price’s words “eccentrics, freethinkers, and theosophists.“

Les, I am using your post from 1/3/05 as an example of the claims because you carry more credibility than most. That said here are the claims and what I have found:

Claim #1-Horus and Jesus are born from a virgin. 

Horus’s mother is Isis.  Isis was married to Osiris.  We do not know for what length of time, but presumably the marriage was consummated.  Whether it was or wasn’t doesn’t matter though.  After Osiris is killed, Isis puts him back together again (he was hacked into 14 pieces) except for his penis which was tossed in a river or a lake.  Iris fashions a substitute penis for him, humps him and here comes Horus.  There is nothing virginal about that.

Claim #2-Both Horus and Jesus were born to a Mary and Joseph. (Seb)

As noted Isis is Horus’s mother’s name not Mary.  In addition, Seb is not Horus’s father, Osiris is.  Seb is Osiris’s father.  Further, Seb is a distinct name from Joseph.  Putting them side by side does not make them synonyms, and that appears to be what was done here.

Claim #3-Both were born of royal descent.

This is accurate.

Claim #4-Both births were announced by angels and witnessed by shepherds. 

I can find nothing that mentions that the birth of Horus was announced by an angel or witnessed by shepherds.  I have found that Horus was born in a swamp, which is a pretty unlikely place for shepherds.  In addition Acharya mentions that Horus was born in a cave.  Massey makes no mention of this, although he does represent that Mithra was born in a cave. 

Claim #5-Both were heralded by stars and angels. 

There is no star that heralded Horus’s birth nor is there any angel announcing it.  Archarya in a footnote in The Origins of Christianity indicates that that there are three stars named the three kings in Orion and then relates this to the birth of Jesus.  When we look to the stories regarding Horus, we find no star or angel announcing his birth.  To the extent that Acharya S relies upon Massey and Massey relies upon what is depicted in the panels at Luxor see (from an atheist) further regarding virgin birth and pronouncement by angels http://www.frontline-apologetics.com/carrier_luxor_inscription.htm 

Claim #6-Both had later visitors (Horus-3 deities and Jesus-3 wisemen.) 

There is no indication that there ever were 3 wisemen.  The bible never mentions the number of wisemen, nor is there any document that reflects 3 deities at the birth of Horus.  See the website referenced in Claim #5.

Claim #7-Both had murder plots against them. 

There is mention that Seth did want to kill Horus, and Herod wanted to kill Jesus.  so this is accurate.

Claim#8-Both came of age at 12, were baptized and their baptizers were executed. 

There is no indication that Horus was preaching in a temple when he was 12.  In fact, Massey indicates that Hours the child was depicted as a “weakling.”  That doesn’t jive with story of Jesus preaching in the temple.  Again this appears to have been a confabulation from Acharya and repeated by others. 

Horus was never baptized in any of the Horus stories.  In addition, Acharya mentions that John the Baptist is actually Anup the Baptizer.  This individual is never mentioned anywhere in any Horus account.  There is not even a footnote in Archaya’s on-line work The Origins of Christianity to support this.  There is nothing.

Claim #9-Both had 12 disciples. 

According to the Horus accounts, Horus had four semi-gods that were followers.  There is some indication of 16 human followers and an unknown number of blacksmiths that went into battle with him.  Horus did not have 12 disciples. Jesus reportedly did.  Acharya failed to give a footnote to support this.

Massey points to a mural in the Book of Hades in which there are twelve reapers.  Horus is not present in this scene.  For Massey to make this connection he goes to a different scene within the same mural.  In this scene there is a picture of a god whose name is the Master of Joy.  Horus is never depicted although in other murals the artists do depict Horus.  Had the artists ascribed 12 reapers in any relation to Horus all they had to do was put Horus at the scene.  They did not. 

Claim #10-Both walked on water.

Horus didn’t, or at least there is no record that I can find that he did.  Massey does not maintain that Hours did.  Massey uses wild conjecture to connect the story of fish man, Oannes, not Horus, to Jesus.  Oannes came out of the sea during the day, and went back into the sea at night.  Massey makes the two analogous because by his calculations, Jesus walked on water during the day. 

As to Acharya, she as usual provides nothing to substantiate this. 

Claim #11-Both performed miracles. 

This is true although the miracles were different in scope and nature.

Claim #12 Both exorcised demons and raised Lazarus. 

The actual claim is that Horus raised Osiris from the dead and that the name Osiris morphed to Lazarus.  It doesn’t matter because Horus did not bring Osiris back to life.  There is no mention of this in any document regarding the story.  Horus did avenge Osiris’s death, but that did not raise Osiris from the dead. 

Claim #13-Both held a Sermon on the Mount; both were transfigured on a mountain, died by crucifixion along with two thieves and were buried in tombs where they paid a quick visit to Hell and then rose from the dead after 3 days time, both resurrections were witness by women, and both will supposedly reign for 1,000 years in the Millennium.

These are the most damning claims if they were proven true in my opinion.  Yet, I can locate none of this.  No sermon, no transfiguration, certainly no crucifixion w/ two thieves, no trip to hell and no resurrection.  There was an incident in which Horus was torn to pieces and Iris requested the crocodile god to fish him out of the water he was tossed into, which was done, but that’s it.  I am at a loss to refute this because I can not find anything to support it.

Massey does compares a story about the Autumn Equinox related to Osiris, not Horus, as the symbolic crucifixion.  There is no indication that Horus is involved in any way.  There is no mention by Massey of any Sermon on the Mount.  No mention or any actual crucifixion, no two thieves, no burial in a tomb.  Massey does not maintain that anything of the sort occurred with Horus. 

In short, of the claims outlined in this entry, I find the comparison between Horus and Jesus to consist of the following: they were of royal descent, they allegedly worked miracles and there were murder plots against them. 

Comments:

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elwedriddsche United States Posted on 08/20/2008 at 03:08 PM

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Spam wink

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Science is answers that must always be questioned.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.
Religion is answers that must never be questioned.
Politics is answers that lobbyists pay for.

Last_Hussar Great Britain (UK) Posted on 08/20/2008 at 03:43 PM

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“Protestants: Doesn’t it bother you that your religion is of man-made origin?”

That’s good, that’s very good.

More Eyewitness accounts- from WWI (when the Russians were still allies).

A million Russians had apparently landed in Scotland, and were marchingthe length of the country to join the Western front.  People claim to have seen these Russians themselves, passing through villages ‘with snow on their boots’

Not the only fictional help we got

Under the fields of this corner of Europe lay British soldiers from the camp Edward III, the Duke of Marlborough and Wellington. And now at this key moment in English history the ghosts of Agincourt had been seen rising up from the ground and intervening on the English side. Visions of medieval English bowmen were seen by the soldiers; St George had appeared in the sky to inspire the English as the so-called ‘Angels of Mons’ proved that God was on the side of the English.
These stories of apparitions and heavenly bodies were widely believed at the time, although in fact their origin lay in a fictional short story written as reportage in the London News. But once this fairy tale had been taken literally soldiers became convinced that they too had seen the angels…

An Utterly Impartial History of Britain: John O’Farrell

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To be human is to look at the vast, cold, uncaring universe, and to say “We stand alone, together.“

Les United States Posted on 08/20/2008 at 04:45 PM

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Spam gone now.

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The Informer United States Posted on 08/29/2008 at 09:02 AM

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The best explaination can be found here:
search for zeigtgeist and after the intro. There is an in depth explaination. Please watch at your own risk!!! I would hate to see your bubble get popped!

Les United States Posted on 08/29/2008 at 09:27 AM

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We’ve discussed the Zeitgeist movie here before and this entry actually does a pretty good job of debunking the whole Jesus/Horus claim.

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Agnostics are just atheists without balls. - Stephen Colbert

elwedriddsche United States Posted on 08/30/2008 at 08:55 AM

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this entry actually does a pretty good job of debunking the whole Jesus/Horus claim

It does? It’s been a long time since any substantial on-topic post, but I thought it was just a demonstration of apologetic matching principles: Use a broad match to support your position, insist on a narrow match if something doesn’t go your way.

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Science is answers that must always be questioned.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.
Religion is answers that must never be questioned.
Politics is answers that lobbyists pay for.

Last_Hussar Great Britain (UK) Posted on 08/30/2008 at 09:33 AM

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elwedriddsche United States Posted on 08/30/2008 at 09:41 AM

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I loves me some QI grin grin grin

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Science is answers that must always be questioned.
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Last_Hussar Great Britain (UK) Posted on 08/30/2008 at 10:52 AM

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Do they show it on BBC America then?

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To be human is to look at the vast, cold, uncaring universe, and to say “We stand alone, together.“

elwedriddsche United States Posted on 08/30/2008 at 11:22 AM

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Not that I know of.

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Science is answers that must always be questioned.
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Religion is answers that must never be questioned.
Politics is answers that lobbyists pay for.

Josh United States Posted on 09/09/2008 at 12:31 AM

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Actually, it is pretty easy to find the part about the angels announcing the coming of Horus.  Depending on how it is translated, the line says “The Company of the Gods rejoiced, rejoiced, at the coming of Horus, the son of Osiris, whose heart was firm, the triumphant, the son of Isis, the heir of Osiris.“  The Company of the Gods can easily be thought of as angels, or an angel, or Jim from down the street, if he happens to keep the gods company.

XenoWolf United States Posted on 09/18/2008 at 01:52 AM

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I only managed to read this thread up to page 11, and there is no way that I’m going to read through the rest. I mention that because if what I have to say has already been said, forgive me.

There has been a lot of discussion about Isis and Mary being virgins. I think the comparison is moot given the etymology of the word “virgin”.

Virgin was once a label of strength and independence, it was a term of power and meant “beholden to no man” it later came to mean “Unmarried woman”. A lot of Greek and Egyptian goddesses were considered “virgin goddesses” because they were strong and independent not because they never had sex. The sexual meanings for virgin came later. So in that respect Isis was a virgin and so Horus was born from a virgin mother.

If Mary is supposed to be a copy of Isis then Mary is just a virgin under it’s new meaning, just as Isis was a virgin under it’s old meaning.

Just thought I would toss that little tidbit in. I don’t think it means Horus = Jesus though. I think Jesus is an amalgamation of several Gods/God-men, not just a carbon copy of one.

Bruno Portugal Posted on 09/21/2008 at 11:38 PM

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I was reading till 12 page then this whole thing was discredited by the attack to Lee, he battled line by line, someone who really knew something of natural law, you alienate the whole concept of the similarities between Horus and Jesus just because a missing piece.

Great men are not frightened to expose they’re opinions even if not polite, some, at a point, destroyed the conversation with attacks to his “style”, There are Dawkins and there are Hitchins, yet they can be enjoyable.

Im liking the talk ,just look a the hour, hope it stays hot, factual and believable.

Sometimes the story that explains the dots are more important then the dots.

bmwynn Australia Posted on 09/23/2008 at 10:36 PM

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Mary was raped by God and had Jesus.  That means Mary was no virgin either.  Therefore, Horus and Jesus are the same.  Oh and their names sound alike too!

Vaughn United States Posted on 09/25/2008 at 09:19 PM

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Most of the things that Horus did was copied or similarily transformed into your jesus. And it wasnt just Horus, many things were stolen from Dionysus/Bacchus. jesus supposedly turned water into wine when Dionysus turned and entire ocean from water to wine. Should I also mention the whole Isis/Hera connection to the monothiest mary?

Everything we Pagans hold dear was stolen and then we were massacred

leguru United States Posted on 09/25/2008 at 09:31 PM

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You say “massacred” like it was a BAD thing.  excaim  snake

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“What is a good man but a bad man’s teacher?
What is a bad man but a good man’s job?
If you don’t understand this, you will get lost,
however intelligent you are.
It is the great secret.“ LAO-TZU

zilch Sweden Posted on 09/26/2008 at 01:16 AM

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Just to let you know- I’m keeping a list of things you don’t think are bad, leguru.

1) Lying sacks of shit
2) Massacres
3) ?

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Last_Hussar Great Britain (UK) Posted on 09/26/2008 at 07:37 AM

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Gene Hunt: I think you’ve forgotten who you’re talking to.
Sam Tyler: An overweight, over-the-hill, nicotine-stained, borderline-alcoholic homophobe with a superiority complex and an unhealthy obsession with male bonding?
Gene Hunt: You make that sound like a bad thing.

Learn from the master, Leguru.

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To be human is to look at the vast, cold, uncaring universe, and to say “We stand alone, together.“

leguru United States Posted on 09/26/2008 at 02:59 PM

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I will be forever grateful for the master, Gene Hunt.

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“What is a good man but a bad man’s teacher?
What is a bad man but a good man’s job?
If you don’t understand this, you will get lost,
however intelligent you are.
It is the great secret.“ LAO-TZU

Rebecca Savastio United States Posted on 10/09/2008 at 02:02 PM

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This is all very interesting. The original poster might find it more helpful to examine original artworks depicting the many other mythological Gods who came before Jesus. A good God to study is Krishna. There’s some really obvious original sculptures and pictures depicting him with a halo (or sun) around his head in his mother’s arms which looks pretty identical to the depictions of the Madonna with Child. When you put the pictures side by side it is pretty stunning. There are in fact many many paintings and sculptures of much more ancient Gods which can be viewed which look almost identical to paintings and sculptures of Jesus, Mary, the apostles, etc. I think in looking at the depictions (paintings and sculptures) of these myths from the people who lived during the time period, it is much more clear and easy to see the vast similarities between Jesus and these other gods than trying to argue about points in texts, which can be open to interpretation. In bringing this argument down to a more basic level of pictures, there can be little dissent when placing such depictions side by side. It is clear to see that many images of earlier gods appear identical to images of Jesus, both with his mother as well as crushing the serpent,  the holy trinity, and many other examples which can be seen easily with a Google image search. Try checking out images of Mithra, Horus, Krishna, etc. If people really took the time to study original artwork, there could be little argument, and we would not have to rely on texts which can be easily misread or skewed.

Dan United States Posted on 10/09/2008 at 05:11 PM

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I recently issues a challenge at my blog here
http://facilis.wordpress.com/2008/10/05/the-counter-challenge/
Some of yu guys who I talked to should respond

elwedriddsche United States Posted on 10/09/2008 at 05:41 PM

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Pass. I lost interest following “the facts are”.

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Science is answers that must always be questioned.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.
Religion is answers that must never be questioned.
Politics is answers that lobbyists pay for.

Last_Hussar Great Britain (UK) Posted on 10/09/2008 at 06:56 PM

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I did my best, but its 1 am here, so am a little tired.

This thread boils down to “Is the blue unicorn a copy of the Pink Unicorn, or a completely new Unicorn”

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To be human is to look at the vast, cold, uncaring universe, and to say “We stand alone, together.“

leguru United States Posted on 10/09/2008 at 07:13 PM

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Are you trying to tell me that that image in the window at Mercy Hospital is actually of Krishna? OH, NO, I’m preying to the wrong god!  snake

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“What is a good man but a bad man’s teacher?
What is a bad man but a good man’s job?
If you don’t understand this, you will get lost,
however intelligent you are.
It is the great secret.“ LAO-TZU

Consigliere United States Posted on 10/11/2008 at 03:31 PM

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A good God to study is Krishna. There’s some really obvious original sculptures and pictures depicting him with a halo (or sun) around his head in his mother’s arms which looks pretty identical to the depictions of the Madonna with Child. When you put the pictures side by side it is pretty stunning. There are in fact many many paintings and sculptures of much more ancient Gods which can be viewed which look almost identical to paintings and sculptures of Jesus, Mary, the apostles, etc.

How does this relate to Horus?  I think it likely applies to a thesis different than that which was refuted here.

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To die one’s self is a thing that must be easy, & light of consequence; but to lose a part of one’s self—well, we know how deep that pang goes, we who have suffered that disaster, received that wound which cannot heal.
Mark Twain- Letter to Will Bowen, 11/4/1888

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