Ending the Myth of Horus

Posted by Consigliere on Monday, January 10, 2005 at 06:43 AM. Read 45839 times. Tags:
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[Editor’s Note: It was my intent to have a reply ready before posting this, but I’ve found myself putting it off due to a busy weekend so I’m going to go ahead and post it as is. I’ll address it properly in the comments as soon as I have the opportunity though I’m sure there are several regulars who will probably be more than capable of addressing it first.]



I’ve heard repeated here several times that Horus, an Egyptian god, is carbon copy of Jesus.  The obvious implication by those that have made this statement is that Jesus is a copycat version of an earlier Egyptian deity.  The purpose of this entry is to disembowel that proposition once and for all. 

When I first heard that Horus was the inspiration for Jesus several years ago, I didn’t give it much credence because I couldn’t establish any source material for the claims.  I still can’t, but the internet is as adept at allowing anybody and everybody to pass on misinformation. 

Upon further research, I’ve concluded that this theory originated with Gerald Massey, an English poet, born 1828, died 1927.  He published primarily poems, but had an interest in Egypt.  He parlayed that interest in Egypt into several books and lectures in which he set forth the proposition that Horus was in essence the first Jesus, and Jesus was a cheap imitation.  The primary basis for his writing is the Egyptian Book of the Dead.  This is available on-line and you can easily look it up to read it yourself.  Be forewarned that forced reading of this would be an extremely efficient form of torture. 

It should be noted that Massey’s actual proposition was that Jesus was a copycat from more than just Horus.  According to Massey, Jesus was a compilation of an innumerable number of Egyptian deities.  There were over 2,000 deities who had every human and godlike characteristic one can think of, excepting Superman’s power to stop a speeding bullet.

Since Massey, there is a dearth of anybody with any credentials that has adopted a straight Horus=Jesus theory.  There is a one individual that has adopted some of Massey’s thoughts and incorporated them into a book-The Christ Conspiracy.  This appears to be the basis for the claims that I see.  The author is Acharya S.  Her website is http://www.truthbeknown.com I note that Richard Price, a noted Christ Myther, and one that I take much more seriously then Acharya, said the following:

“Those of use who uphold any version of the controversial Christ Myth theory find ourselves immediately the object not just of criticism, but even of ridicule. And it causes us chagrin to be lumped together with certain writers with whom we share the Christ Myth butt little else.....

His other criticism, like mine, is that she uses very dated sources (19th Century) who were in Price’s words “eccentrics, freethinkers, and theosophists.”

Les, I am using your post from 1/3/05 as an example of the claims because you carry more credibility than most. That said here are the claims and what I have found:

Claim #1-Horus and Jesus are born from a virgin. 

Horus’s mother is Isis.  Isis was married to Osiris.  We do not know for what length of time, but presumably the marriage was consummated.  Whether it was or wasn’t doesn’t matter though.  After Osiris is killed, Isis puts him back together again (he was hacked into 14 pieces) except for his penis which was tossed in a river or a lake.  Iris fashions a substitute penis for him, humps him and here comes Horus.  There is nothing virginal about that.

Claim #2-Both Horus and Jesus were born to a Mary and Joseph. (Seb)

As noted Isis is Horus’s mother’s name not Mary.  In addition, Seb is not Horus’s father, Osiris is.  Seb is Osiris’s father.  Further, Seb is a distinct name from Joseph.  Putting them side by side does not make them synonyms, and that appears to be what was done here.

Claim #3-Both were born of royal descent.

This is accurate.

Claim #4-Both births were announced by angels and witnessed by shepherds. 

I can find nothing that mentions that the birth of Horus was announced by an angel or witnessed by shepherds.  I have found that Horus was born in a swamp, which is a pretty unlikely place for shepherds.  In addition Acharya mentions that Horus was born in a cave.  Massey makes no mention of this, although he does represent that Mithra was born in a cave. 

Claim #5-Both were heralded by stars and angels. 

There is no star that heralded Horus’s birth nor is there any angel announcing it.  Archarya in a footnote in The Origins of Christianity indicates that that there are three stars named the three kings in Orion and then relates this to the birth of Jesus.  When we look to the stories regarding Horus, we find no star or angel announcing his birth.  To the extent that Acharya S relies upon Massey and Massey relies upon what is depicted in the panels at Luxor see (from an atheist) further regarding virgin birth and pronouncement by angels http://www.frontline-apologetics.com/carrier_luxor_inscription.htm

Claim #6-Both had later visitors (Horus-3 deities and Jesus-3 wisemen.)

There is no indication that there ever were 3 wisemen.  The bible never mentions the number of wisemen, nor is there any document that reflects 3 deities at the birth of Horus.  See the website referenced in Claim #5.

Claim #7-Both had murder plots against them. 

There is mention that Seth did want to kill Horus, and Herod wanted to kill Jesus.  so this is accurate.

Claim#8-Both came of age at 12, were baptized and their baptizers were executed. 

There is no indication that Horus was preaching in a temple when he was 12.  In fact, Massey indicates that Hours the child was depicted as a “weakling.” That doesn’t jive with story of Jesus preaching in the temple.  Again this appears to have been a confabulation from Acharya and repeated by others. 

Horus was never baptized in any of the Horus stories.  In addition, Acharya mentions that John the Baptist is actually Anup the Baptizer.  This individual is never mentioned anywhere in any Horus account.  There is not even a footnote in Archaya’s on-line work The Origins of Christianity to support this.  There is nothing.

Claim #9-Both had 12 disciples. 

According to the Horus accounts, Horus had four semi-gods that were followers.  There is some indication of 16 human followers and an unknown number of blacksmiths that went into battle with him.  Horus did not have 12 disciples. Jesus reportedly did.  Acharya failed to give a footnote to support this.

Massey points to a mural in the Book of Hades in which there are twelve reapers.  Horus is not present in this scene.  For Massey to make this connection he goes to a different scene within the same mural.  In this scene there is a picture of a god whose name is the Master of Joy.  Horus is never depicted although in other murals the artists do depict Horus.  Had the artists ascribed 12 reapers in any relation to Horus all they had to do was put Horus at the scene.  They did not. 

Claim #10-Both walked on water.

Horus didn’t, or at least there is no record that I can find that he did.  Massey does not maintain that Hours did.  Massey uses wild conjecture to connect the story of fish man, Oannes, not Horus, to Jesus.  Oannes came out of the sea during the day, and went back into the sea at night.  Massey makes the two analogous because by his calculations, Jesus walked on water during the day. 

As to Acharya, she as usual provides nothing to substantiate this. 

Claim #11-Both performed miracles. 

This is true although the miracles were different in scope and nature.

Claim #12 Both exorcised demons and raised Lazarus. 

The actual claim is that Horus raised Osiris from the dead and that the name Osiris morphed to Lazarus.  It doesn’t matter because Horus did not bring Osiris back to life.  There is no mention of this in any document regarding the story.  Horus did avenge Osiris’s death, but that did not raise Osiris from the dead. 

Claim #13-Both held a Sermon on the Mount; both were transfigured on a mountain, died by crucifixion along with two thieves and were buried in tombs where they paid a quick visit to Hell and then rose from the dead after 3 days time, both resurrections were witness by women, and both will supposedly reign for 1,000 years in the Millennium.

These are the most damning claims if they were proven true in my opinion.  Yet, I can locate none of this.  No sermon, no transfiguration, certainly no crucifixion w/ two thieves, no trip to hell and no resurrection.  There was an incident in which Horus was torn to pieces and Iris requested the crocodile god to fish him out of the water he was tossed into, which was done, but that’s it.  I am at a loss to refute this because I can not find anything to support it.

Massey does compares a story about the Autumn Equinox related to Osiris, not Horus, as the symbolic crucifixion.  There is no indication that Horus is involved in any way.  There is no mention by Massey of any Sermon on the Mount.  No mention or any actual crucifixion, no two thieves, no burial in a tomb.  Massey does not maintain that anything of the sort occurred with Horus. 

In short, of the claims outlined in this entry, I find the comparison between Horus and Jesus to consist of the following: they were of royal descent, they allegedly worked miracles and there were murder plots against them. 

Comments:

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Tomorer Great Britain (UK) Posted on 05/21/2008 at 05:47 PM

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Why did you ‘’nuke’’ my post?

Tomorer Great Britain (UK) Posted on 05/21/2008 at 06:49 PM

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Read thru twice and cant decide if its random babble or not? Its not actually, neither, was, it verbatum! I wrote the original comment a while ago and none wrote any sort of reply. There was room for improvement too so I took the opportunity to correct some typos and expand its content a bit. I did hope, with some improvements it might get a response. This response is not in line with a cut and thrust forum such as this though… is it? It seems you either want to sweep it under the carpet, or you simply find it too complex to fathom. It is though quite a simplifaction of the complexities otherwise rife here. This is really my point. I can see it may be a alot to get to grips with. It is not, though, a rant (though there is nowt wrong with a rant) and full of aimless sentances, but a ramp for your lauch to a different way to see things.

elwedriddsche United States Posted on 05/21/2008 at 07:14 PM

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none wrote any sort of reply

Nobody considered it worth their time to do so, if they even read the original comment.

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Les United States Posted on 05/21/2008 at 07:17 PM

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Tomorer, I nuked it because it was more or less a copy of the comment you left on March 30. Duplicates get deleted.

As for replies, what Elwed said. If it’s meant as a “ramp” for us to “launch to a different way to see things” then all I can say is that it’s ineffective at best. If anything it muddies the waters.

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Tomorer Great Britain (UK) Posted on 05/21/2008 at 07:43 PM

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Ok… fair enough. Muddies the waters though.. heck!?! It must be ineffective. I suppose it asks too much with no reason, as far as people want to participate in forums to say their piece, for anyone to pay it too much heed. It certainly doesnt ask a little. I, myself, though, think these things, or this opinion, on the things in consideration, allow me to get on the high-ground (one might say), for avoision of the muddy waters. It is an endless argument, afterall, if neither side is right. My argument draws a line, I think, and attempts a critical dissection of the situation on the basis of the facts, and the fictions, with no desire to mess with theological conundrums far beyond the pale.

I accept there is truth in Christianity, as well as falsehood, and there is alot to reason with. If the reason you operate with is bound by the constraints of prejudice though, you will ultimately be unreasonable. I think if this thread is to draw any proverbial nectar from the fruit of life, it is the prejudice we must discuss. Otherwise there will be hipocracy, and the ironic masquerade it entails. There really is only one way to be right. Its the right way, not a right way, the, right way. This is surely the fundamental of fundamentals, to be right. If you are fundamentally wrong… well, you can imagine. My point is there is rightness, as well as wrongness, on the parts of the Atheists, and the Bible Bashers, and the cunundrum of dubious slants on the truth, rendering each other’s validity unrendered, means there is alot of agrravation over the construction of a castle of sand, at high tide. If we want our render to be solid, it must be pure. This is our task… to purify the truth, rather than unpurify it.

Les United States Posted on 05/21/2008 at 07:58 PM

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I think part of the problem is that your comment has nothing to do with the original intent of the thread, which was the question of whether or not the myth of Jesus is largely copied from the myth of Horus.

From the sounds of your latest comment it seems you’re trying to claim that both atheists and theists have some claim to the “Truth,” but neither has it completely right. About all I’d argue about in that regard is whether or not there is a Truth (with a capital ‘T’) to be right about. I, as an atheist, certainly don’t make any claims to infallibility.

At any rate, this isn’t really the proper thread for such a discussion. Not the least of reasons being that it’s already over 650+ comments long and would get lost. You’ve registered an account with his here at SEB so I invite you to make use of the SUBMIT tab in the top menu to submit something for consideration as an entry unto itself. You’ll want to take the time to be as clear as you can be on exactly what point you’re trying to establish. I’ll give it a look over and, if it seems interesting enough, post it for others to comment on.

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Tomorer Great Britain (UK) Posted on 05/21/2008 at 08:13 PM

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Well. I suppose this might be just the thing. Maybe it should be something to do with the existence of an ultimate Truth, or not!?! And the conundrums arisen from science and religion in this era of discovery, and their embattlement!?! I will think of something to write. Maybe seek some inspiration first, or course. In the mean time though, feel free to look at my youtube page (some things maybe a bit adolescent). The videos on the main page are basically the foundation of my point of view. Maybe you will be able to understand me better if you watch these. Hopefully you will. There is a whole realm of truth to discover. Its fundamentals are really plain for all to see though. If you want to see them. Cheers.

Ataist (not atheist!) Australia Posted on 06/08/2008 at 07:57 AM

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Can I also be an evil bastard (not stupid though). Is it possible that you want to sell your jesus for the same reason you want to sell your half jewish half black obama to us??? For crying out loud there is not a word of originality in the bible all stolen from other (e.g. Summarians). christianity does not even want to recognize anything older than them (e.g. Mu) and would gladly kill me and other thinkers because we do not want to believe (or declare the lack of knowledge) in their lies. Think my fellow souls and throw this garbage back to where it came from, the dark deserts of stupidity (Africa to be exact)! May the Force be with us grin

Nunyabiz United States Posted on 06/15/2008 at 02:52 PM

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“you forget nunyabiz that there is no historical documentation of horus, horus was a man with a falcon head, therefore , imaginary. jesus the human being was in fact real and flesh ecause of the letter writtin by tacitus and the reports of the death of jesus. and just like any impresssive and great human being like jesus a mythology forms around him and of course they take the mythology of the past in order to portray his greatness. but regardless of the mythology jesus as a preacher who had a simple message to love thy neighbor and thats all you should look for.”

Not going to bother responding to poor old Dan as he is clearly delusional on the level of hopeless so no reason to waste time refuting every word he said, just a pointless venture.

I will respond to this poor soul since it was directed at me personally.
There is plenty of documentation of the purely fictional Horus, exactly the same as the purely fictional Jesus.
Tacitus what little he allegedly wrote was known to have been written at least 40+ years after any alleged death of the mythical Jesus.
All it even mentions is that some cult existed that worshipped “chrestus” well good as this is not in dispute we all know that Christians existed and there was a cult at that time.
So what?  this proves zero as you can say exactly the same thing about Zeus, Apollo, Jupiter, Mithra as so on.

I will personally write you a check for $1000 for each and every shred of evidence that was written DURING this alleged godmans supposed lifetime.

Jesus is purely fictional.

leguru United States Posted on 06/15/2008 at 03:07 PM

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According to the N.T., Jesus was a “Rabbi” and my understanding of that title indicates one who both reads and writes in some language, usually the ancient Hebrew, or at least in the current political or philosophical language of either Greek or Latin. I will personally write you a check for $1000 for each and every shred of evidence that was written BY JESUS during his supposed lifetime.
I have a feeling nobody’s going to get rich from you or me, Nunya.

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DrZaius United States Posted on 06/17/2008 at 02:35 AM

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I think I read the first 4 pages or so of comments… and then went straight to the last page.  Man, these comments just keep on going, don’t they?  Anyway, was this debate supposed to be about whether or not the stories of Jesus and/or Horus were true or whether or not the two figures are similar?

Falcon Morocco Posted on 06/21/2008 at 07:57 AM

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There is still and unanswered question? Horus was born on december 25...Like Jesus...Pure Coïncidence?

Spocko United States Posted on 06/21/2008 at 12:01 PM

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Greetings, Falcon. I’d say no coincidence at all!

The December Solstice is the most logical choice for the “birth” of sun-gods. This is when the sun is “youngest”.

People on the different sides of the planet with no contact at all will still dream up similar sun-god myths. One myth may or may not be a copy of another. We all start with the same source material - the sun, the moon, the stars, flora and fauna, and the weather. It should surprise no one that the gods look familiar to disparate groups.

Julian India Posted on 06/21/2008 at 12:14 PM

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There is still and unanswered question? Horus was born on december 25...Like Jesus...Pure Coïncidence?

Did they even have a 25 December back then (whenever the Horace mythology was the christianity of the day)?

I mean I know they did not have a 25 December like we have today, but did they follow a regular solar calendar, where we could in fact say with some confidence that Horace day fell on what would correspond to the 25th December of our calendar?

Riddle: Why do computer programmers confuse Christmas with Haloween?

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Edd Great Britain (UK) Posted on 06/21/2008 at 03:35 PM

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If the first and last posting dates are accurate, then this argument has been going for over three years! Methinks that it’s time to take a break!
(sorry, a fat lot of use that comment was, but I’m tired)

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DrZaius United States Posted on 06/21/2008 at 06:30 PM

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I don’t think the Bible lists December 25th as the date of Jesus’s birth.  And yeah, I’m curious about Julian’s question.

leguru United States Posted on 06/21/2008 at 10:20 PM

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The Bible is mute as to the date of Jesus’s birth. Dec 25 was chosen by the Catholic Church at the council of Nicaea about 325 AD.

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“What is a good man but a bad man’s teacher?
What is a bad man but a good man’s job?
If you don’t understand this, you will get lost,
however intelligent you are.
It is the great secret.” LAO-TZU

Last_Hussar Great Britain (UK) Posted on 06/22/2008 at 06:04 AM

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My Primary school teacher said that shepherds would not have been watching flocks in December.

Rabbi may not have been a ‘official’ position- it means ‘Teacher’, and even if Jesus was not an officially recognised Priest, it may have just been the followers calling him it- like all those weird cults that have ‘priests’ now.

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Messenger. Iceland Posted on 06/28/2008 at 09:21 PM

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Christianity is a prison religion. Passed on throug generations just now are people starting to notise. If you dont look at the simularity’s witch are shown right infron of ya well i just say belive in what ever you want to belive and see how deep the rabbit hole really is. Christianity is so powerfully connected throug illuminati. We all worship a cross then “Horus had a cross and jesus died on a cross where does this cross relate too” our astrological cross. They are really smart bastards. The 12 zodiacs the 12 disiples. The 3 wisemen the orion belt. Jesus and the devil are defined as the Morning star. Horus is the sun and the moon. Set is the darkness. This is the same thing as the greec mythology evry god had a planet. We are beeing controlled by misunderstood vibrations. Too be honest christianity isint really spiritual or helthy for the soul. Christians dont seem to understand the higher powers spirituality really brings until they start to understand what it is try meditation and see what it brings. It is time for the bible/idle worshippers to wake up.
The Earth is not owned by us, The Earth owns us as long we are on it becouse we are trying to live on it.
The thing is we are beeing controlled by “Religion, poletics and the media”. Let me explain the media first fashion directory. It means it can controll, how we should look like. how we should act like to be less ridiculed in school, work and public and ect. we see it on tv alot. Comersials telling us what to buy what to look at, what to do on our evry day, what car, house, bank and insurance all this crap we should buy/get. The News: Well we only hear one side of the story evry time so dont be so sure to get evry single truth out of that. What too belive in, i know christians have so meny facility’s helping poor people around the world with a bible you guys are litterally forcing them to belive in it. This is wrong. Spain invaded south america and forced them to convert them to christians. That was a real slaughter, allso in north america 60 million native americans dead too around 80 thousand native indian were left in north america. Who are the real bad guys here? Did we kill all these people for jesus… man if we really did damn he would have mutch to answer for. Why is the vatican in rome the same enemy that put jesus on the cross. Poletics we all know the make some minor fixes here and a few rules there to make our box smaller. Now what are they really up too? figure that one out and ill give you a gum. Search for “Illumunati, David Icke, Alex jones or royal blood lines. If you dont give a crap well we will be screwed over by the idiots in power. bb raspberry

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