So it’s OK to be a scam artist as long as you pay your taxes eh?

Well, all the IRS cares about is getting its cut; it doesn’t much care where it came from.  That’s someone else’s department.

Typical syndrome at work here:  plenty of unscrupulous religious people decide they’re above secular law, and whatever “God” wants them to do should override everything else.

“America has no king but Jesus,” as our Attorney General once said. Of course his king did say to “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s” and paid his taxes while (according to some) incarnated as a human being.

I don’t understand why having some kind of faith should exempt anybody from taxes. It’s stupid! Donations to religious organizations should only be tax deductible to the extent that they are used for charitible purposes. Moneys paying the reverend’s salary and the church mortgage ought to be taxed to the donor.

Apparently you folks didn’t read the part about “no charges”. You seem to be ready to convict because of a mans faith. He is no scam artist. I don’t know if he is guilty or not, but I do know that the ideas he put forward are just as valid as anyone elses. You may choose not to believe, but to ridicule shows the true nature of why.

No charges as of yet, this is true. I’m willing to wait and see if there’s any actual reason to convict Hovind, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there is as the man is a fraud. It has nothing to do with his faith. His ideas are no where near as valid as anyone else’s as they are based on no scientific evidence of any kind. The ridicule he receives is well deserved.

mike, this is not Hovind’s first brush with the IRS. Go here and then follow the link to see the court’s finding in his 1996 bankruptcy hearing.

Hovind’s beliefs regarding taxes have little if anything to do with his religion. It is a fairly well established fact that there is no constitutional, legal authority for the federal tax system. This, to my knowledge, has been Hovind’s reason for not paying the taxes demanded by the feds. Many non-religious folks have protested federal taxation on the same grounds, incidentally.

I’m not sure I agree with Hovind’s reasons for avoiding federal taxes. But at least I’ve taken the time to understand them. I’d expect people as clearly intelligent as yourselves to try to get the facts straight regarding his case before yammering on about it. Using this case as a hammer against Hovind’s creationist views only makes you look like biased, unreasonable asses. It’s entirely irrelevant AND YOU KNOW IT.

If fairness interests you, read Hovind’s tax letter posted at http://www.drdino.com.

DL

DL, you need to re-read the responses. No one here is attacking Hovind’s creationists views because of his views on taxes. As for it being a “fairly well established fact that there is no constitutional, legal authority for the federal tax system” I would suggest you stop reading Hovind’s silly books and try reading the U.S. Constitution.

U.S. Constitution, Section 8, Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

I don’t know about you, but that pretty much sounds like a Constitutional legal authority for establishing a federal tax system. So, yeah, we might look like biased and unreasonable asses, but you look pretty fucking stupid right about now.

Also check the 16th ammendment:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

The tax evaders try to get out of taxes by claiming the 16th ammendment wasn’t properly ratified.

Without the 16th ammendment the gov’t wouldn’t be able to collect taxes the way they currently do because it isn’t uniform among the states (that is why they needed the “without apportionment” language in the 16th ammendment).

DL,

Had you followed my link you would have seen that, in an previous case, Hovind claimed that since eveything he had belonged to God, he didn’t have to pay income tax.

For some reason the court did not find in his favor.

If you dont find Jesus then you will burn. Try staying cool then.

If God is not real then why do you people spend so much time trying to prove he doesnt exist or attacking thos who beleive obviosly you must have doubt in your own mind as to whether he really exist or not. Other wise you wouldnt have whole websites dedicated to this matter. Anyway God is real and he is coming whether you believe it or not is your matter let your blood be upon your own shoulders. Funny how an atheist website will now say that God does exist. Ha Ha Ha

Exactly which God are we referring to here?

Well duh Forrester… The REAL one! Isn’t it obvious?

And my submission word: ‘fact’. How much more burning bush can you get?

obviously you must have some doubt in your mind as to whether he really exists or not

Not really.

And the reason unbelievers discuss it so much is because of the rather substantial number of believers who insist on using their fantasy as a justification for passing laws that dictate how the unbelievers can, or cannot, live their lives.

I don’t care if the guy next door thinks that his dog is talking to him.  That’s none of my business.  If the guy next door thinks that his dog is telling him that he should shoot me, --then-- I’m concerned with it.

But understanding this requires basic thinking skills.  So read that last comment again, r e a l l y s l o w l y.

I’m betting you STILL won’t get it.

capcha “brock” LOL.

Whenever I have excess bleeding I use…

I tried looking for Jesus, but he wasn’t anywhere to be found. Not even behind the refrigerator and whenever you lose something it’s almost ALWAYS behind the fridge.

I was moving once and thought I’d found Jesus behind some old boxes.  Turns out it was just a dusty Jesuit.  The search for God is like ‘Where’s Waldo’ without the book.

If God is not real then why do you people spend so much time trying to prove he doesnt exist

Because people keep trying to prove he does with inane shit like “A bird pooped on me!  God DOES exist!” or “That idea is too complex for me to understand, so it obviously had to be created by God”. 

If you dont find Jesus then you will burn.

Maybe if he got chipped, he’d be easier to find…

Hey Eric;

Betcha my God is more forgiving, omniscient, and omnipotent than yours! 

Sound familiar? It should, if you remember your history, especially world history. More blood has been shed fighting over religious belief than over any other issue. Don’t forget even the Nazis believed in God, fervently. Consider the Vatican’s position during WW2, they stayed remarkably distant during those trying times, (probably because they liked the idea of having a bulwark against communism and Judaism).

Heard about the Vatican pipeline to South America? Yes, God’s representatives are great indeed!

On the opposite side communists are heathens, yet they have been among the worst in making people disappear, (mostly in the middle of the night) -witness Stalin, Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge.

In a historical sense, whether you believe does not make a difference when it comes to butchering people and the victor always writes history.(( As an aside, and for an interesting twist on the “belief� theme check out Bill Joy’s concerns on “luddite thinking� expressed well in his opinion, through Ted Kacinzski’s (the Unibomber), manifesto.)) Any search engine will do.

My point: fanaticism is dangerous, excessive belief may be dangerous to your/our collective health especially when magnified by demagoguery.

Keep a wary eye on the religious right, especially since they have the ear of the most powerful cowboy in the world! (Yeeeehaahhhh)

God bless!

Hey Forester,

Do you realize you are speaking to, mostly, atheists here? You seem, at times, to be preaching to the choir and then you end you post with “God bless”. Do you see Eric’s sarcasm or are you using your own? I can’t tell!

I believe Forester is relatively new to SEB and Eric hasn’t been particularly active lately so it’s likely he’s not familiar with the fact that Eric is an atheist and was trying to be humorously sarcastic in his response.

Les and Spocko;

Eric’s comment was an opportunity to rant, although I could not be sure about his sarcasm. Sarcasm begets more sarcasm.

Les is right, I’ve recently come across SEB, and I like its irreverent nature, albeit cerebral and civilized comment threads.

As to the belief part, I haven’t set foot in a church for anything other than site seeing. Admiteddly getting married (Yikes!)in one of them is a scary prospect.

Zig heil!

Welcome to the club, Forester (however you believe).

PS. I’ve been married twice - used a judge both times!

May you live long and prosperous Spocko!