Weston- what do you consider “proof” for creation?  There’s mounds of evidence for evolution, from detailed fossil sequences in many lineages, to comparative anatomy of living creatures, to evolution visible right now.  If you’re interested, start looking here at TalkOrigins.  If that doesn’t convince you, come back here and we’ll tell you why we consider evolution a fact.

I believe what he says is true. if someone could sow me some solid facts for evolution. then i would believe it but as of right now there is more proof for creation.  Some one show me some proof please.

I would imagine his “more proof for creation” is the bible. In which case, Zilch, he’s not going to believe anything at TalkOrigins.

Remember, stupid feeds on itself.

Zilch, you misunderstand. He’s looking for Bible quotes in support of evolution, not something like factual observations, scientific theories, and how the twain meet. Or speciation being demonstrated. Or computer simulations that explore and showcase the scientific theories.

He might settle for proof of their strawmen, though, like an airplane evolving into a watch after being hit by a thunderstorm. Or was it an eye mutating into a mousetrap? I can’t keep creationist canards straight anymore…

I believe in the bible because i believe in the creation theory, not I believe in creation because of the bible.  Things like the flagellum tail on bacteria, confuse me.  how would a tail that spins at 100,000 rpm evolve.  Or the distance of the moon from earth.  Most factual evidence for evolution has been proven wrong, or is not can not be proven.

I believe in the bible because i believe in the creation theory, not I believe in creation because of the bible.

Why the Bible, Weston?  The Koran has a creation theory too; so does the Bhagavadgita. They’re all equally plausible, and all equally supported by the evidence.

Things like the flagellum tail on bacteria, confuse me.

Believe me, it confuses me too.  But just because things are complex and not fully understood is no proof for a Creator.  People used to think there must be gods who threw thunderbolts, too.

Or the distance of the moon from earth.

What of it?

Most factual evidence for evolution has been proven wrong, or is not can not be proven.

Do you have any idea how much factual evidence there is for evolution?  “Most” of that would be a mindbogglingly large amount of information, orders of magnitude larger than the Bible.  I suspect what you mean is that Piltdown Man was found to be a hoax, and therefore evolutionary theory is defunct.  And what exactly do you mean by “prove”?  You can’t “prove” that the Sun will rise tomorrow, but you can still be pretty confident that it will indeed rise.  Scientists overall confidence in evolution, while the details are still not understood, is of this order.

I believe the bible because it suits my life style well. and makes the most since to me.  Just like you believe in evolution because it suits your life better.  The flagellum tail consfuses me because in evolutionary theory every thing evolved from something else(legs to wings, ect.) but the flagellum tail came from nothing.
    As For the moon,  It continues to move away from earth at 3.8 cm a year. at billions of years old the moon would be so close to the earth. That the tides would flood twice every day.
    The piltdown man was one of the many hoaxes. like Nebraska Man, java man, and the Neanderthals. Has there been missing links that have ben found that haven’t been proven wrong.

Weston, you’re a fuck-knuckle - get a fucking life - you’re UNknowledgeable about what, how and why and totally outa your depth here (here = not a place fundies have ANY success) - there are people here who’re a bit (a mild Aussie understatement   ) smarter than you ... I don’t consider myself one of them but I don’t give a shit cos I know I can and, do, THINK - ever tried it?
It’s un-slave-ing-lish-ly cool.

I believe in the bible because i believe in the creation theory, not I believe in creation because of the bible.

Fuckwit!
Lesson one: don’t try and con a conman, mate.
You believe in the shit of the bible cos you believe the bible shit - end of conversation.
Q-E-fucking-D you dumb cunt.     
Jack Daniel’s talking here … and she’s getting mildly a-fucking-gressive. 

Segue for no apparent reason ...

ZILCH: Why does Compay Segundo (he HAD to be in his 80s) remind me of you in 30 years?
Hope you can make it with the same love moves as the old bloke with the 7 string guitar or the singer with the straw hat ... WOW! 
BUT, the old bloke in the straw hat has nothing on Ibrahim Ferrer ... notice Omara shaking her head in love and wonderment of his voice ... or him.
Why do I love the way he dries her tears? There’s no cure for romanticism, is there? 
Full circle. 

I find it funny that you get so mad that i’m asking question that you can’t answer.  I’m trying to learn and understand what you believe and your shooting me down because I seem to make a little since.  Your not helping me believe what you believe.  I’m not saying I’m right, Or that your wrong. I’m saying I BELIEVE that i’m right and I BELIEVE that your wrong. Also I never claimed that i was smart.

I’m a newbie here but If I knew how to quote a post, I’d be a quote whore. I was a believer once. I believed in the tooth fairy, santa, the zombies under my bed and that a dead spirit would solve all my problems if only I believed and prayed hard enough. Then one morning, I caught my mom sneaking Santa’s gifts under the tree, one night my dad putting a quarter under my pillow, and one day my parents got a divorce, my beautiful young niece died and a slew of other horrific things occured that no merciful loving god would have let happen. Essentially, I woke up and grew up. I laugh at the crap I used to believe in wondering how I could have been so blind-but hey I was a child-my parents forced their fears and crutch on me. I believe in the humanity in people and the good that can come of it and that I am here because my mom and dad did the nasty-not because the angels sent me from heaven. I teach my kids that they alone are responsible for their actions and that they are the only ones that can fix their mistakes, work for what they want, and to live their lives with honesty, integrity and giving. It is however interesting that this is a board for like minded Atheists and people come in denouncing us and damning us to their imaginary hell for not beLIEveing in their buybull. We didn’t invite you people here and we don’t want you here. Seriously, do any of us lurk in christian boards waiting for the perfect opportunity do disprove any of your beliefs? Sure it sounds fun but I think we’re all more adult than that.

Also I never claimed that i was smart.

Strangely enough, I imagine that no one else will either.

Mostly well said Deadly Nightshade, but I disagree that we didn’t invite Christians here. There may not be a big “Welcome Christian” sign at the top of the main page but I think most of us see open discussions as a good thing. At the very least, Christians, and especially fundies, show us how differently others can think and allow us opportunities to practice our debate and reasoning skills.

Aside from that, the link from your name is trying to sell us something so you should understand how others might want to sell us a pig in a poke instead. /off topic

To quote, highlight what you want to put in a quotebox and then click on the “quote” button above the comment box.

Back to my point: Certainly we’ve had some on here lately that make me ashamed to know they’re Americans but generally I want to think this is a place where people can feel free to reveal their perspectives on life and what could come after. Also though, I want to believe they came to their conclusions independent of force and fad.

To be honest, I thought LG was a bit rough on Weston because Weston seems, to me, to be slightly smarter than most of the true believers we’ve met here lately and honestly curious. He needs to find a spell check program though and he’s gotten ahold of some bad information but maybe he can be reasoned with. After all, reason is what this site is about, to a great degree.

Sorry, meant to say LJ and not LG. Hi LJ.

I agree debating is a good thing (without trying to sound like Martha) but when it takes a turn and they try to force their beliefs down my throat and go so far to say that we (or I) are evil to the core and are viscious

...viscious

viscious sp? about doing so it offends and disgusts me. We as a family debate all the time but there comes a time when you have to bow out gracefully. As far as my husband’s link goes, it’s there if any of you are interested, if not, you dont have to go there. Much like if someone had a link from their name that would send me to an Evangeical site, I would choose not to go.

(sorry, I didn’t have a brain fart, my son was on while I went into the kitchen, just read it all as one post)

Brock: I thought LJ was a bit rough on Weston because Weston seems, to me, to be slightly smarter than most of the true believers we’ve met here lately and honestly curious

Fair enough, Brock. In that case I won’t post what I was going to post.
What was I going to post, I hear you ask?
Just this bit of drivel.

Weston: I find it funny that you get so mad that i’m asking question that you can’t answer.

I don’t get mad - I get even.
BUT, why is it I can’t find a single ??QUESTION MARK?? in any of your shit?
Cos you’re a fuck-knuckle ... and you think you’re the first.
Could it be you’re a time-wasting, energy-sucking troll?
Yep, cos you’re a fuck-knuckle ... and you think you’re the first.

Weston: I’m trying to learn and understand what you believe and

Bullshit - you’re a time-wasting, energy-sucking troll.

Weston: your shooting me down because I seem to make a little since. 

There’s an outside chance you meant YOU’RE and SENSE and you’re right - you don’t ... because you’re a time-wasting, energy-sucking troll.

Weston: Your not helping me believe what you believe.

There’s the difference between you and me - I don’t give a fuck what you believe and why cos I don’t get extra points for conversions.

Weston: I’m not saying I’m right, Or that your wrong. I’m saying I BELIEVE that i’m right and I BELIEVE that your wrong.

Oh, you know about semantics. Good onya mate.
Looks like you’re saved and I’m not.
One problem - you mixing me up with someone who gives a fuck. 

Weston: Also I never claimed that i was smart.

Whoa - you’re being far too smart here - I’m starting to believe you’re super-smart ... only kidding.

May I remind you all of the SEB Wiki? Specifically, this section that eagerly awaits content?

One way to keep the creationist trolls at arms length and simultaneously offering an educational resource would be to answer creationist canards there. It could be as simple as a list of “stumper questions” and links to their respective debunks.

Weston: your shooting me down because I seem to make a little since. 

Newsflash, Weston: you’re not making any “since.“ The reason many of us are getting irritated with you is partly because we get creationist trolls here frequently and we find ourselves having to explain ad nauseam why they are wrong, and partly due to the fact that, despite your claims to the contrary, you’re not receptive to any evidence that contradicts your beliefs.

Your not helping me believe what you believe.

You’ve made it clear that you have no intention of believing anything other than what you already believe. That’s unfortunate; what’s even more unfortunate is that there are countless others like you.

One way to keep the creationist trolls at arms length and simultaneously offering an educational resource would be to answer creationist canards there.

I vote the job is delegated to zilch.

Well, I’ve added a couple of headings. It’s a wiki, so anybody who feels like it can pitch in.

I don’t get mad - I get even.

Good one.  Get even with what? My question?

BUT, why is it I can’t find a single ??QUESTION MARK?? in any of your shit?

Thats because i didn’t use any question marks.  I didn’t proof read it. Sorry(like it makes a difference, if you can’t tell when its a question with out a question mark, go back to school)

it seems that this site doesn’t want to debate the different theories, they just want to bash creation and get mad when someone asks a question.

LJ said:

you’re a fuck-knuckle - get a fucking life - you’re UNknowledgeable about what, how and why and totally outa your depth here

Fuckwit!

Q-E-fucking-D you dumb cunt.

I would be remiss were I not to point out to you that one should not lose sense of their manners. 

The aged, the infirm, the insignificant, the dependent; all, in short, who are afflicted “in mind, body, or estate,“ are suitable recipients of the most expressive courtesies of manners

So, when dealing with a particularly troubling troll you might employ the following sage advice:

The comparatively vacant mind readily admits an impression from without; hence, he “who whistles for want of thought” will whistle more cheerily for the introduction of an agreeable remembrance, into the unfurnished “chambers of imagery”

(Both quotes from The American Gentleman’s Guide to Politeness and Fashion, 1860)

Surely the same philosphies employed by others with you, here, merit imitation.   

Weston: it seems that this site doesn’t want to debate the different theories, they just want to bash creation and get mad when someone asks a question.

There is no present theory regarding speciation or variation that even comes close to competing with evolution. The theory of evolution is at the heart of all the life sciences. The evidence for it is overwhelming; anyone who is aware of this evidence and still rejects evolution is being wilfully ignorant, and that is not a character trait that deserves any respect.

Furthermore, creationism is hardly a scientific theory. At best it is a belief that has no supporting evidence; at worst it is a silly delusion. Either way it does not merit consideration or respect.

Consi: Surely the same philosphies employed by others with you, here, merit imitation.

*nods head*