Do You Consider Atheism a Religion?  No?  Well You Should.

Posted by Christopher Robert Prokop on Thursday, December 09, 2004 at 06:59 AM. Read 921 times. Tags: ,
{name} pic

When I answer with Atheism to the question: “What religion are you?” I often get responses like, “Atheism isn’t a religion; it is the absence of religion.” Mike Newdow handles the topic pretty well in a sermon presented to his church, the First Amendment Church of True Science. While I’m not going to regurgitate everything that he has said so far, I am going to focus on a separate issue, with this being that Atheism should be considered a religion, else Atheists will have fundamentally less rights than America’s traditionally religious folk.

Let us assume that I, Christopher Robert Prokop, want to get into the business of murdering children by means of abstaining from vaccinations, like our good friends the Christian Scientists. Under many state’s laws, people are allowed religious exemption rights if a government policy explicitly violates the codes of their religion (in the Christian Science case, it is the rejection of germ theory, the most important, experimentally verifiable development in biology of the past millennia). In this case, Christian Scientists fundamentally have a choice, and thus more rights, in a situation where other religions do not. This rule exists in many different permutations, but if your ideology isn’t divinely inspired, you are shit out of luck. As a fundamental rule, Atheists have less rights than mystical religions; how can this problem be solved? The first step is demanding all basic rules that religions get and apply them to the non-theistic beliefs. The morality of Secular Humanists, Agnostics, and Atheists still deserve the same respect that Christians, Muslims, and Hindu get.

The other breaking point is tax exemptions. When people spend their time frightening impressionable youths with tales of fire and sodomy, they get rewarded by the government with a tax exemption. Meanwhile, if I were to preach the word of immorality, personal freedom, and logic, my paltry income would still be taxed. Why are organizations founded in faith and dogmatism viewed as more worthy of tax exemptions than those that require open discussion and the development of ideas? If those dependent upon Houses of God, Allah, or Zysnarch can take their income tax free, then so should the International House of Prokop.

All non-theists, not just Atheists, deserve the same benefits that believers receive. If this requires labeling your belief system as a ‘religion’, so be it. It does nobody any good to waive fundamental rights over semantics.

Comments:

Page 2 of 2 pages  <  1 2

zilch Austria Posted on 12/10/2004 at 02:48 AM

zilch pic

Coming late to this thread, all I can add is my two cents’ worth of playground insults.  Nyah nyah in everyone’s general direction!  Now that I’ve gotten that out of the way…

Nowiser- what I would have said, but better.  We hear over and over from fundies that atheism (or evolution, or science) is also a religion, or a faith, and you cogently explain the difference.

elwed- thanks for the apposite quote.  Perhaps you knew this already: Santayana was an atheist Catholic.  An anonymous wag caricatured his position as “There is no God, and Mary is His Mother”.

Neon glowed: There are an awful lot of words out there that are necessarily subjective and loaded with meanings that can differ from person to person.

There I will agree with you, and certainly some of the typical characteristics of the religious can apply to sports fans, skeptics, etc.  But a fairly hard and fast line can be drawn between theists and atheists on the basis of faith, or lack of it, as Nowiser points out.

Neon again: ...but every time it gets into religion and God, suddenly everyone’s a monstrously arrogant know-it-all presuming to tell others how to live their lives.

Here I agree with you too, except for “everyone” I would substitute “every fundamentalist”.  I don’t recall a single post where one of us atheists, or one of us liberal theists, has told anyone else how to live their lives.  That’s a specialty of the fundies.

 Signature 

You were born.  And so you’re free.  So happy birthday.
- Laurie Anderson

Mick Australia Posted on 12/10/2004 at 04:15 AM

Mick pic

I expect religion to mean at the very least a shared philosophy or collection of beliefs (belief in a god or gods no longer seems to matter in this world where atheistic mysticism and buddhism are becoming so common), so while I’d be fine with seeing secular humanism registered as one (beyond the fact that I don’t believe religious organisations should get benefits, and thereby endorsement, from the government at all, including atheistic organisations) I could never accept atheism, which describes no philosohpy or belief, but merely the absence of belief, to be a religion - just as I would never describe myself as religious.

My grammar is probably terrible, but it’s late and I’m moving in a few days, so I’m naturally excused from such restrictions as full stops and proper spacing.

elwedriddsche United States Posted on 12/10/2004 at 06:53 AM

elwedriddsche pic

(zilch)Perhaps you knew this already: Santayana was an atheist Catholic.  An anonymous wag caricatured his position as “There is no God, and Mary is His Motherâ€?.

Yup. Interesting fellow.

 Signature 

Science is answers that must always be questioned.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.
Religion is answers that must never be questioned.
Politics is answers that lobbyists pay for.

elwedriddsche United States Posted on 12/10/2004 at 07:44 AM

elwedriddsche pic

There’s a huge difference between a discussion and an argument that descends into thinly-veiled insults and presumptuous arrogance.

Granted, but you wrongly assume that are arguments that don’t start at the insult and arrogance level in the first place.

 Signature 

Science is answers that must always be questioned.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.
Religion is answers that must never be questioned.
Politics is answers that lobbyists pay for.

Frumpa Australia Posted on 12/11/2004 at 03:47 AM

Frumpa pic

A bit off topic,but I was most interested in what Les wrote concerning passages in the “good” book.Having little more than distain for the bible an its deluded followers(and thus not bothering to read the whole thing),Im rather amused that intellegent folk would follow a text that demands they dont question its inconsistancies.*ALARM BELLS RING* - surely its obvious this is no book of god,but only a book of decietful men,whose first and foremost love is POWER.Like the rapist and wifebeater,these crooks must be shunned.Oops..very off topic in-fact..sorry!

Frumpa Australia Posted on 12/11/2004 at 03:50 AM

Frumpa pic

By the way;how do I attach a funky little picture to my posts?

zilch Austria Posted on 12/11/2004 at 05:53 AM

zilch pic

Frumpa- just go to
http://www.gravatar.com
Even I was able to follow their instructions, so anyone should be able to do it.

 Signature 

You were born.  And so you’re free.  So happy birthday.
- Laurie Anderson

zilch Austria Posted on 12/11/2004 at 06:00 AM

zilch pic

DoF: I don’t collect stamps.  Apparently my hobby is: “Not collecting stamps.â€?

Oo! Ooo!  We have the same hobby!

 Signature 

You were born.  And so you’re free.  So happy birthday.
- Laurie Anderson

Frumpa Australia Posted on 12/11/2004 at 07:32 AM

Frumpa pic

Hmmm,having trouble withGravitar..What are JPG,GIF and PNG images? - (Sorry for posting tech questions guys..noone else to ask though) question

 Signature 

“We were somewhere around Barstow,on the edge of the desert - when the drugs started to take hold” Hunter S.Thompson

GeekMom United States Posted on 12/11/2004 at 08:16 AM

GeekMom pic

Frumpa, those are the different formats that a digital picture can have on your computer.  For example, if you put the cursor over the delicious pic of zilch, and right-click, and choose “Save Image as ...” the filename that it will offer you will have a “jpg” at the end, showing that it is in JPG (or JPEG) format. 

Hope this helps ...

Frumpa Australia Posted on 12/11/2004 at 08:39 AM

Frumpa pic

Seems to only give me the option to save as Bitmap (BMP)..Then again these computer thingies have always been a struggle for me!  confused

 Signature 

“We were somewhere around Barstow,on the edge of the desert - when the drugs started to take hold” Hunter S.Thompson

decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 12/11/2004 at 09:11 AM

decrepitoldfool pic

Frumpa, when you save a picture from a web page, it just downloads it and saves it to your hard drive in whatever format it’s already in.  Try poking around in the “file save as” menu a bit to see what little hidden features it has.

Here is an article I wrote about xnview, a free image-management program that is pretty easy to use.  It will allow you to crop images, size them (to a specific number of pixels, like “80” for Gravatars) and save as .jpg or .gif.  The Help function in that XnView is very helpful and self-explanatory. Good luck.

elwedriddsche United States Posted on 12/13/2004 at 06:30 PM

elwedriddsche pic

A quote I picked up somewhere:

If atheism is a religion, then health is a disease.

 Signature 

Science is answers that must always be questioned.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.
Religion is answers that must never be questioned.
Politics is answers that lobbyists pay for.

Spocko United States Posted on 12/13/2004 at 06:49 PM

Spocko pic

Excellent quote elwed!

elwedriddsche United States Posted on 12/13/2004 at 08:35 PM

elwedriddsche pic

It’s from this page. You may also enjoy the flowchart at the very bottom.

 Signature 

Science is answers that must always be questioned.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.
Religion is answers that must never be questioned.
Politics is answers that lobbyists pay for.

Spocko United States Posted on 12/13/2004 at 08:41 PM

Spocko pic

Ha - love that flowchart! LOL

DeathToHumans Australia Posted on 05/18/2006 at 03:57 PM

DeathToHumans pic

I’m a bit of a late comer to this thread, but i’ll add my two cents for the benefit of those who will come after.

The Church of Atheism debate reminds me of a conversation i had with an Islamic friend. He told me (rather sheepishly - he’s fairly moderate) that by not believing in any ‘divine’ (i prefer supernatural, but divine seems more specific) being, i was actually worshipping the devil. i tried to point out that ‘any’ was quite inclusive, to which he replied that, regardless of my opinion on the matter, in terms of his religion, his faith, by rejecting his god i was doomed to hell. for him to think or say that there would be no consequence for my ‘apathy’ (another term i don’t like - i quite actively think organised religion [and finance] is the bane of mankind) would be a rejection of his indoctrinated beliefs. i think this reflects the atheism as a religion debate, in that religious types see a religious outcome for atheists, or else they cannot justify their own beliefs. thus THEY see atheism as a religious choice, regardless of the atheists feelings on the matter.

I wrote this elsewhere, but it seems quite relevant to this thread. Also the above link to the flow chart is now dead. the main site has moved here but i haven’t perused it yet to find this amusing chart

DeathToHumans Australia Posted on 05/18/2006 at 04:45 PM

DeathToHumans pic

the amusing chart was hidden in plain view at the top of the page i linked to previously, and so amusing i’m prepared to revive this old thread to draw the attention of those that have not yet seen it, to it. so go here and check it out for a laugh. the link from silent daves page to the actual chart is still active. i think the chart is just an excuse for nasty old men to hang around youth chat rooms.

itdontmatter United States Posted on 05/18/2006 at 08:42 PM

itdontmatter pic

Here I agree with you too, except for “everyoneâ€? I would substitute “every fundamentalistâ€?.  I don’t recall a single post where one of us atheists, or one of us liberal theists, has told anyone else how to live their lives.  That’s a specialty of the fundies.

I agree with you if you include Roman Catholics as being fundies (even if as a special case).  Catholics and fundies have allied themselves to become the “religious right”.

Back on-topic, I do not believe that atheism itself can be a religion any more than theism can be a religion; however, I believe that a religion can embrace atheism just as conventional religions embrace theism.

Page 2 of 2 pages  <  1 2

Name:

Email:

Location:

URL:

Smileys


Remember my personal information

Notify me of follow-up comments?

Submit the word you see below:


<< Back to main