Having no moral guidelines to adhere to, I guess that you could be having lots of “fun” with your life, but how do you explain where you came from and why you are here?  With no hope and no significant purpose, life can get pretty depressing.  The only thing that makes me truly happy, aside from knowing that God loves me and wants me to be happy, is loving and being loved.  So, maybe that’s what Jesus came her to tell us.  Love is all we need.  Love conquers all.  Love makes the world go ‘round.  And how do we love?  Maybe, knowing that God loved us so much that he sacrificed his son for us so that we may know the truth and have eternal life, will give us a clue about how much we are loved and can love.  My life might not be as exciting as it was before I accepted Christ into my heart, but I have faith now, and I know that there is no problem that I cannot turn to God for help and answers. Why are we here?  To love and be loved.  What else really matters?

Erin writes…

Having no moral guidelines to adhere to, I guess that you could be having lots of “fun� with your life, but how do you explain where you came from and why you are here?

Who the fuck are you to tell us that we have no moral guidelines? Just because our guidelines are not your guidelines that doesn’t mean we don’t have any.

You start off on a very bad foot when you arrogantly decide to tell us about how we have no moral guidelines and then you make my opinion of you worse by preaching to us. You want to believe in an invisible sky fairy who hands out wishes for the asking then more power to you, but don’t think it gives you any authority to speak about what the rest of us believe or how immoral it makes us that we don’t buy into your delusion. Stop being an arrogant asshole and maybe you’ll get some of that lovin’ you seem so desperate to receive.

So, if not from God (the 10 commandments), where to you get your guidelines?  All I am saying is that I am human.  I am not better or worse than you.  I do not profess to know any more than you and I am glad to have the help.  If your language is any indication of your character, then I guess your hell on earth is created by your own devaluation of your self.  Do you think that maybe you might have a better opinion of yourself if you know that someone greater than you (hard to believe?) loves you?  I am sorry to have offended you.  I didn’t mean to do that.  But, hey, you seem to thrive on abuse or at least abusing.

Erin,

yeah, Les seems to have low self esteem and is extremely reactionary whenever someone brings up the subject of God.
Perhaps God is beginning to work in his heart. I thank God everyday that he saved me from the “hell on earth” that Les appears to be experiencing.
Without a true purpose in this life and what you’re here for, how can you even go day to day? It’s not only drudgery, it’s insane.

Andrew

Andrew, do you know what “reactionary” means? 

Erin & Andrew, Les’ ire reveals nothing other than having had the same garbage thrown in his path over and over by presumptive jerks like you.  Really, who are you to drop in, obviously having not done much reading on this site, and start saying his life, or anyone’s, has no purpose?  Or that he, or anyone, lacks a moral foundation?  And then say; “Gee, I didn’t mean to offend anyone!”

Countless times I’ve seen Les patiently give carefully thought-out answers to comments like yours.  But after a while, it’s just another idiot showing up with an armload of assumptions. What was that old saying about assumptions again?  Oh yeah…

You can add my “reaction” to his.

decrepit,

Well, I have noticed one definite thing and that is that you, Les and others seem to like to call people (especially who disagree with you)degrading names whenever we make an observation based on our opinions or experience. It seems perfectly okay for you to make a presupposition, but as soon as someone presses your buttons all of a sudden were the jerks?
God is willing to love you, but you must be willing to receive Him.

Andrew

Erin and Andrew- if you want a taste of how we’ve hashed through all this stuff before, and why presuming our lives to be without meaning pisses us off, check out this.

Erin, you asked Les where he got his moral guidelines, if not from the Ten Commandments.  I won’t presume to answer for him, especially if Andrew is right about God starting to “work” in his heart (Les, what kind of job are you giving God to do in your left auricle?), but there are all sorts of other sources for morals, thank Darwin.  Many of them are genetically based to some extent (loving your children almost certainly, for example), and others are more-or-less enlightened self-interest (the Golden Rule is a pretty universal one).

In brief, morals are what build societies out of individuals. Morals have evolved in the ideosphere in a somewhat analogous way to organisms in the biosphere- the successful ones survived.  Gods have proven to be useful carrot-and-stick wielders to encourage acceptance of morals, especially where the individual must cede some freedom to the society (thou shalt not commit adultery).

There’s a lot more to it, of course.  But saying that atheists can have no morals and no purpose in life is insulting- and simply untrue.

Andrew: you, Les and others seem to like to call people (especially who disagree with you)degrading names whenever we make an observation based on our opinions or experience.

I didn’t call you a jerk because of your opinion, but because you were acting like a jerk.  If you had a blog and I just dropped in and started telling you what I thought of your religion, the meaning of your life, your morals, etc., how would you take it?  Especially if you’d heard it all before from people who thought it was their mission in life to set you straight? 

Maybe the first time, or the tenth time, you’d bear it patiently, but eventually you’d just tell the commenter to “bugger off”.

Decrepit,

Sorry if you thought I was acting like a jerk. The bible tells believers to spread the Gospel and Erin and I havent actually done that. My apologies.
However, it seems that by what you’ve said or seen on this blog or other websites that you’ve probably heard the Gospel quite a few times and have disregarded it.
In case you haven’t, a very good explanation of it is at the website below. Basically what it attempts to do is give you an understanding of who God is and who we are in relation/comparison and His gift of a Savior to those who would beleive in Him.
If you’ve ever read any of the bible(and I’m assuming you have)that too will give some insight to who God is.

Andrew

http://www.southsidebc.net/knowinggod.htm

Andrew,
I was once like you. Though I believe ( hope) that your intentions are noble, take it from someone ho has read the Bible as well as a number of other religious texts, conversion will not happen with the tone that you were using.Mostly because people don’t like being converted. Religious debate? Yes, that’s why most of us are here. Debate itself cannot occur without raional arguments. Condemning people to hell or telling them that they live life without a purpose only undermines any real purposeful debate

Andrew said: “Sorry if you thought I was acting like a jerk.”

Andrew, that is a politician’s apology.  You cannot apologize for my act; in this case my thought, that you were acting like a jerk.

You can only apologize for your own act; in this case acting like a jerk.  But you don’t really believe that you were, do you? 

I will accept at face value that your intentions are good.  There is an old saying about good intentions…

Don’t bother apologizing: I’ve seen this many times before.  God-shouter shows up, thinks he’s Moses and John the Baptist all rolled into one, gets dope-slapped for it, “apologizes”, says “Even though I came on like I did, God blah, blah, something, something, something...”

And yes, I some familiarity with the bible.  Many of us have.  Was there something in that website more pursuasive than the Bible?  Or just more of what you were spewing earlier?

Dammit. I had a nice lengthy reply here and the net ate it.

Short version: Erin and Andrew, you’re both being presumptive arrogant assholes. Either get a fucking clue before you try to “save” me and anyone else here or just take your nonsense someplace else where they might appreciate your idiocy for the humor value inherent in it if nothing else.

To step in as mediator quickly(and likely unwanted...ly?) Erin and Andrew take my word for it that praying for Les and the others is the most you can do.  Don’t try to argue with them unless you hold a real doctorate in something useful for debate.  These people are some of the most intelligent I’ve met on the net.  My faith has been harshly challenged here, but strengthened nonetheless.  Christian apologetics is not a basis for faith so I hope God is real to you in illogical and irrational ways because logic and rationale can be destroyed and the people here are smart enough to do it.

The people here for the most part are nice, honest and considerate people.  I’m glad to call a few of them friends of sorts.  I try to pray for them regularly myself.  The moral grounds for an atheist have already been philosophically established in secular humanism.  Click here to read about the Affirmations of Humanism if you are unfamiliar with the concept.  God bless.

Theo- kudos.  What you said.  Darwin bless.

Decrepit,

You’re right. I shouldn’t apologise for what you think. However, I would NEVER presume I have the faith and close intimacy with God as Moses, John the Baptist or any other prophet has had or will.
Decrepit, Les and anyone else that doesn’t believe in GOD, I CANNOT save you. To have faith in GOD, to be saved and any other blessings that anyone has is ALL by HIM. GOD commands believers to glorify Him and to spread the good news (Gospel). AGAIN, this is all by GOD. By His will do I glorify Him. By His will do I talk about Him. By His will would I even attempt to communicate to you or anyone else.
It’s not about us, it’s about GOD. That is why we are here. ALL of us. I pray that one day He will reveal Himself to you.

Andrew

Andrew - so we’re back to waiting for God to reveal himself to me?  I guess this conversation has gone in a complete circle.  Please see my comment of 8/17/05.

So God needs us to glorify him.  Huh.  You’d think if he created the universe he wouldn’t need semi-sentient specks like us to go around singing his praises.

You’d think if he created the universe he wouldn’t need semi-sentient specks like us to go around singing his praises.

Speak for yourself, semidecrepit!  Man, if I went to the trouble and expense of creating a choir, I’d damn well want them to sing!

Decrepit,

GOD NEVER needed us or anything. He USES us for His glory, but I assure you, GOD was doing just fine before He created the universe.
We praise Him because He is worthy of praise. He is deserving of praise. Any good thing that you receive, do you think that you deserve it? And if so, why? Why would we sinners of a GOD as holy and righteous as He, think that we DESERVE anything, but His wrath?
GOD didn’t want to condemn His creation to hell as we all deserve, but to send a Savior, Jesus Christ to take our punishment. That is who GOD is.
Why would anyone who has an inkling of who GOD is, deny His Love and Grace? That grieves me more than you’ll ever know.

Why would anyone who has an inkling of who the EASTER BUNNY is, deny His candy and eggs?

Much like Les, I’m sick to death of these folks and their never-ending condescension cloaked in the guise of “witnessing for the Lord.”

Fuck you, Fuck Jesus… keep your goddamned delusions to yourself.  If being a filthy rag in need of salvation is what makes you happy, have at it.  The rest of us, who are living perfectly good lives feeling fulfilled without the need to thank/praise/worship an invisible Sky Daddy, would like you to just shut the fuck up, and quit sullying our secular society, our government and popular culture with your idea that human beings are shit and need salvation by your god-on-a-stick.

Tell it to someone who gives a shit.

Andrew said: “GOD NEVER needed us or anything. He USES us for His glory, but I assure you, GOD was doing just fine before He created the universe.”

You assure me.  Now you can speak confidently about God’s emotional state before the dawn of time - piffle!

[Then a bunch of stuff about God is great, we are scum, blah, blah, blah]

“...That is who GOD is. Why would anyone who has an inkling of who GOD is, deny His Love and Grace? That grieves me more than you’ll ever know.”

So you know who God is.  ‘Cuz you read it in a book, you had a feeling, you accepted a myth that is popular in your culture, etc.

Andrew, are you just unable to keep from digging yourself in deeper?  I suggest you go back and read Theo’s comment again (if you read it the first time - a big ‘if’)

OB,

If you were as fulfilled as you claim, you wouldn’t have this attitude. You wouldn’t curse me or anyone else. You wouldn’t have the obvious anger that you have.
About needing salvation? You bet I need it and VERY thankful for it.
Could you define “perfectly good lives” though? I’m very interested in knowing what your opinion of that is. Because it doesn’t seem by the tone of your posting that your life is “perfect” or “good”.
All you’ve done is lash out in anger for something you don’t understand. You’ve mocked me, cursed God and have shown me nothing but contempt.
At least some of the earlier postings, some responded with their opinions without cursing or mockery. I don’t agree with them just as they don’t agree with me, but we could still remain somewhat civil to each other.
Your responses tell me that you are hurting inside and that you’re actually not fulfilled, but miserable. It’s normal what you’re experiencing, but it doesn’t have to be.

Andrew,

He USES us for His glory

Oy vey.

Andrew,

Anger is not a sign of a bitter, unfullfilled person. It is a response to stupidity or injustice. If you never get angry you either have no sense of justice or your under heavy medication.

As for the cursing, sometimes its just fun to say GO FUCK YOURSELF to a condescending little shit like you. Obviously treating you with respect doesn’t work or you would have stopped your inane ranting after Theo’s post. You don’t actually make any points, so debate is out of the question. That just leaves us with insult and ridicule.

So, as long as you continue with the silly, god loves you posts, we’re going to continue to heap abuse at you. Not because we’re angry or bitter, just because it amuses us.

So sod off you annoying little git.

your under heavy medication.

Should have been “you’re” in that phrase. Sorry ‘bout that, just woke up......

What cracks me up is comments like…

Any good thing that you receive, do you think that you deserve it? And if so, why? Why would we sinners of a GOD as holy and righteous as He, think that we DESERVE anything, but His wrath?

...and yet they try to tell me that I have a negative self-image and living a miserable existence in a Hell on Earth.

Andrew is so clueless he doesn’t understand that we’re annoyed with him, not with something “we don’t understand” as many of us do understand it, having been believers in the past. He wouldn’t know that, however, because he’s basing his judgment on what little he’s seen instead of trying to find out what we’re really like before forming an opinion. Then when we get annoyed as his arrogance he tries to tell us we’re just unfulfilled because we don’t believe in his imaginary plaything.