But anyways, if you’d like to flame me or try to convince me, send me an e-mail. ^^ Bye.

I have no desire to convince you. Trying to change the mind of a willfully ignorant person is like trying to teach a pig to sing… surely you know the rest of that tired cliche.

Well, all I want is proof. I’ve done alot of research on evolution, and honestly, it takes FAR more faith to believe life occured from nothing than it does to believe in creation. All I’m asking for is evidence. You don’t have to throw insults.

Oh, and Dr.Carl Baugh is a former evolutionist, in case you didn’t know.

You all have a very strong faith in evolution, just like Baugh did. I guess something must have convinced him otherwise. But what do you suppose that was? I mean, there must be some reason he stopped believing in evolution.

Gee, RYU, you caught us.  We just never thought about it that way before.  I guess hundreds of thousands of scientists in disciplines from astronomy to zoology who find congruent data (despite their motivation to poke holes in each other’s models whenever possible) are all wrong.  Some religious nut with phony academic credentials built a museum!!!

Have to second what Les said - go read up.  There are plenty of good links you can follow from here.  Otherwise you’re just wasting time.

I didn’t throw an insult, I made a statement of fact. If you honestly think there isn’t much evidence supporting the theory of Evolution then either you haven’t done as much research as you think you’ve done or you’re willfully ignorant of the literally thousands of research papers on the topic that exist out there and are not that hard to find. If you find the above insulting it’s only because you probably recognize the truth of the statement.

As for Dr. Carl Baugh being a “former evolutionist” (whatever that is) the fact that he went from accepting a well-supported theory to believing in total nonsense in no way lends any credence to the total nonsense he decided to start accepting as real. It also doesn’t help that there’s some dispute over how credible his claims to holding degrees in both science and theology really are:

A copy of Baugh’s CAE “diploma” (furnished by Baugh) indicates that CAE is the “Graduate Division” of International Baptist College (IBC). IBC is incorporated in Missouri (where Baugh lived before coming to Texas); however, the school is not accredited, nor certified to grant degrees in any subject. In fact, IBC appears to be as lacking in science facilities and courses as CAE. When I called IBC in 1986, the man answering the phone stated that IBC is a correspondence school for Bible studies based on cassette tapes by Jerry Falwell. Further, the letterhead of IBC listed Baugh himself as “President.” Thus, it appears that Baugh essentially granted himself a science degree from a branch of his own unaccredited Bible school.

Perhaps not surprisingly, Baugh’s doctoral “dissertation” is largely a compilation of anti-evolutionary arguments on the origin of man, and includes an extensive section on missions that consists of literature by others which was photocopied and inserted.

Pacific College Incorporated (a.k.a Pacific College of Graduate Studies and Pacific International University), from which Baugh claims a master’s degree in archaeology, traces to a small, private, religious school in Australia, whose president is Clifford Wilson. Ian Plimer, a member of the Australian Research Council and professor of geology at Newcastle University, reported that PCI is not accredited or authorized to grant degrees. Plimer stated, “Any degrees from this ‘College’ are illegal in Australia and are clearly being used fraudulently in the U.S.A.

Clifford Wilson, is--or was--a close associate of Baugh, and evidently was a partner of Baugh in IBC. Wilson’s name was listed, along with Baugh’s, on the incorporation papers for IBC. Wilson also was originally listed as “Vice President, International Studies” on the letterhead of IBC, and the location of IBC was given as Melbourne, Australia on a metal plaque displayed at Baugh’s first “man track” site. Moreover, a recent booklet by Baugh states that Baugh received a Ph.D. in Anthropology from the College of Advanced Education in conjunction with Pacific International University (emphasis added). Thus, all of Baugh’s alleged science degrees seem to trace circuitously back to Baugh himself and his partner Wilson--through their own unaccredited religious schools and/or branches of them.

Last, there is no evidence that Baugh has even a undergraduate degree in any field of science.

Perhaps you would do well to pick a better example of “scientist” to use when forming your opinions on the validity of various scientific theories. If Dr. Carl Baugh is who’ve you been mainly studying then it’s no wonder you’re as ignorant as you seem to be.

You all have a very strong faith in evolution, just like Baugh did. I guess something must have convinced him otherwise. But what do you suppose that was? I mean, there must be some reason he stopped believing in evolution.

I don’t need faith in Evolution, the evidence for it removes the need for faith. I seriously doubt Baugh ever changed his mind about Evolution. Rather I suspect he’s always been a Creationist and is just lying about his former acceptance of the theory of Evolution much the same way he’s lying about his supposed academic degrees.

Incidentally, is it at all possible for you to get all your thoughts into one comment instead of three or four? Or is it just another symptom of you speaking prior to engaging your brain?

Ryu says:

I’ve been PLENTY informed on evolution… I’ve done alot of research on evolution, and honestly, it takes FAR more faith to believe life occured from nothing than it does to believe in creation.

Yes, he’s so informed that he makes the same mistake that many others have.  He is confusing evolution with the origin of life- two distinctly separate things.  Ryu, for your edification; the theory of evolution explains the diversity of life that is present throughout different epochs.  It also attempts to explain (post-Darwin evolution) the mechanisms of genotypic/phenotypic changes in species and how such changes become fixed in a certain breeding population bringing about speciation.  Evolution relies on several other disciplines of science- population biology, molecular biology, genetics, even geology, plate tectonics, and meteorology all play a role in this robust theory.  As the others suggested- do some reading and come back when you can differentiate between the theory of evolution and the various theories on the origin of life.

You people are full of it, he never claimed that the earth was 10% the size. Damn you evolutionists are pathetic, you should have seen the lecture he took on your gay little theory he ANNIHILATED IT! If hes a crazy spastic what does that make Darwin? a F&^$#@% retard thats what!

Actually, he did make that very claim. Go look at his slides yourself, it’s all right there for everyone to laugh at. The only thing he annihilated was his credibility. The only thing more laughable than his “lecture” is the fact that you bought into it.

we arn’t talking about the same person. That or you’ve got an invalid source designed to descredit him. But your theory just as rediculous as the one you claim him to have.

I’m currently reading Dan Brown’s “Angels & Demons” and I have to say, I’m sympathizing with The Illuminati. A secret organization whose main goal is the eradication of religion, where do I sign up?

he ANNIHILATED IT

Allow me to translate: Baugh adopted the right tone of sarcastic contempt, rolled his eyes frequently, scratched his chin in a thoughtful way, and then said “but you make a crucial error here, as I clearly have leather patches on the elbows of my tweed sportsjacket, sir.  Ah Ha!  You are confounded, sir, con-Founded!  Take that, you, you, [sneer]Darwinist[/sneer].”

Dud, if you think an oral debate is the proper format for testing the quality of scientific theories, then you probably think a juggling test is the best way to pick a dentist.

See?  Those are leather patches on the elbows of my jacket, son.  You are Con-Founded!

That or you’ve got an invalid source designed to descredit him.

There’s no need for a secondary source to discredit this guy, in the same way that you don’t need a secondary source to discredit someone who claims to be a ‘Classical Scholar’ because ‘earlyclay eythay ancay eakspay atinLay!”

Oink.

we arn’t talking about the same person. That or you’ve got an invalid source designed to descredit him.

Nope, same guy and he does a perfectly fine job of discrediting himself without any outside help.

But your theory just as rediculous as the one you claim him to have.

Only to those people, such as yourself, who are ignorant of the evidence in support of it.

You fools, the illuminati is controled by the pope. Stuff Dan Brown he knows NOTHING!!!!!! Plus I haven’t seen one scientic reaon you’ve presented to prove him wrong. None of you have. Its ignorance why you hate him, it hurts your precious fake little world. Plus none of you try him scientifically because the evidence supports him. Plus I reviewed the tapes and I dont know what the hell your talking about. He Never claimed that the earth was ten percent the size. You were probably stonned or heard wrong. Cause I’ve heard his theory OVER AND OVER AGAIN to see if there were any major scientific flaws. Trust me its alot more believable than your evolution theory. The Probability of a molecule exploding and forming a working universe is the same as putting a bomb under a pile of wood, and with the explosion cause a little wodden house with working windows and doors to form. Pluasable? I dont think so! Prove me wrong scientifically, IF YOU CAN!!!!!!! MUHAHAHAHAHA

Ah, he’s back to play some more…

You fools, the illuminati is controled by the pope.

Someone’s been watching too many Hollywood movies…

Plus I haven’t seen one scientic reaon you’ve presented to prove him wrong.

You’re the one claiming he’s right. The burden of proof falls on you.

Its ignorance why you hate him, it hurts your precious fake little world.

I don’t hate him, I’m actually rather amused by him. I’m just disappointed so many folks like yourself actually swallow the crap he’s shoveling.

My “little world” isn’t dependent on Evolution being correct so I feel no threat from the possibility that it might be false. On the contrary it’s clear that you put a lot of emotional stock into your version of events so it seems to me you’re engaging in a little projection here.

Plus none of you try him scientifically because the evidence supports him.

Actually, it doesn’t. It makes him a laughingstock. Hell, even his fellow creationists think he’s a nutbag.

Plus I reviewed the tapes and I dont know what the hell your talking about. He Never claimed that the earth was ten percent the size. You were probably stonned or heard wrong.

It’s possible I may have misheard him as I was busy laughing my ass off at the time, but I don’t think I did as I recall that comment got an even bigger laugh from me. I wasn’t “stonned” though. I’ve never been “stonned” in my life.

Cause I’ve heard his theory OVER AND OVER AGAIN to see if there were any major scientific flaws. Trust me its alot more believable than your evolution theory.

And your credentials would be, what, exactly? Based on what you’ve said so far here I wouldn’t trust you to give me directions to the corner store, let alone tell me whether or not a particular scientific theory is sound. You come across as an idiot.

The Probability of a molecule exploding and forming a working universe is the same as putting a bomb under a pile of wood, and with the explosion cause a little wodden house with working windows and doors to form.

And with that you demonstrate that not only are you completely ignorant about the Theory of Evolution, but you’re also completely ignorant about Probability Theory.

Pluasable? I dont think so! Prove me wrong scientifically, IF YOU CAN!!!!!!! MUHAHAHAHAHA

I’m having more fun just laughing at you.

You sad little bogan, again, wheres your evidence, what kind of panzy agures using opinions and conotations. Damn your a retard. The only people who are amuzing is you people. People who go on about others saying how wrong they are using opinionated arguments with the biggest lack of prove. You couldn’t prove shit!

And your credentials would be, what, exactly? Based on what you’ve said so far here I wouldn’t trust you to give me directions to the corner store, let alone tell me whether or not a particular scientific theory is sound. You come across as an idiot.

Your the idiot, a complete hipocrit, wheres your scientific evidence and degree to disprove me? IN HELL THATS WHERE. You dont even use an argument based on any other thing than an unsupported opinion. The only thing YOU achieve is apealling to the baised minds of your retard brain washed little freinds. WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? GOD? ha, laugh you ignorant hipocrite, laugh it up in your meaningly excuse for an opinion I’LL BE LAUGHING TO!!!!!!!!!!

The last lecture I heard from him was filmed a little over 15 years ago, but that one made sense more then Darwin’s theory which requires more faith to believe in than all the bible and very misinformed opinion or an IQ of around 38. But still, I dont know how valid the reports are of his sinility but when I heard his lecture then, IT MADE SENSE. Even If he’s gone crazy or got demensia now, he was once on the right track and you bunch of arragant, ignorant, biased, opinionated fools are yet to desprove the track that he once walked.

sorry bout two things, had to make some corrections, you retards really need a post/edit system!

Damn you people are the nut bags, show me the link that confirms your little 10% claims our your the ones who are discredited. Plus, if you didn’t care about evolution than you wouldn’t defend like you are! Again pissy little hipocrit.

Ooooo! I must have hit a nerve with my last comment.  Pissed you off enough to generate four comments plus a duplicate. Which I’ve been kind enough to delete for you. Let’s see what we have this time.

You sad little bogan, again, wheres your evidence, what kind of panzy agures using opinions and conotations.

Once again, you’re the one making the claim he’s right so the burden of proof is on you.

Damn your a retard. The only people who are amuzing is you people. People who go on about others saying how wrong they are using opinionated arguments with the biggest lack of prove. You couldn’t prove shit!

Blah blah blah. You’re just wasting your breath here.

Your the idiot, a complete hipocrit, wheres your scientific evidence and degree to disprove me? IN HELL THATS WHERE. You dont even use an argument based on any other thing than an unsupported opinion.

I’m still waiting for you to provide something to rebut. So far all you’ve done is claim what a genius “Dr.” Carl Baugh is and how unbelievable you feel Evolution happens to be. Those are your opinions which you’ve provided nothing to back them up with other than your inane rantings.

The only thing YOU achieve is apealling to the baised minds of your retard brain washed little freinds. WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? GOD? ha, laugh you ignorant hipocrite, laugh it up in your meaningly excuse for an opinion I’LL BE LAUGHING TO!!!!!!!!!!

That was just this side of being incomprehensible. Be sure to wipe the foam off your monitor before it dries and gets all crusty.

The last lecture I heard from him was filmed a little over 15 years ago, but that one made sense more then Darwin’s theory which requires more faith to believe in than all the bible and very misinformed opinion or an IQ of around 38.

Actually my IQ has tested out to around 135, but I don’t put a lot of stock into IQ ratings.

As for the above comment from you, you make a lot of claims without one ounce of supporting citations or evidence to back them up. They are, once again, merely your opinions which I happen to disagree with. You keep crying about how I’ve not provided anything in the way of evidence to disprove your statements, but you’ve yet to provide anything in support of them. If you’re not going to bother then why should I?

I don’t care if you want to remain an ignorant dumbass who heaps praise on creationists with phony credentials just because your brain isn’t capable of grasping anything beyond the fairy tales you were taught in Sunday school.

But still, I dont know how valid the reports are of his sinility but when I heard his lecture then, IT MADE SENSE.

We’ve already established that I trust your judgment less than that of a used car salesman so the fact that “Dr.” Carl Baugh’s laughable lectures made sense to you is hardly a ringing endorsement.

Even If he’s gone crazy or got demensia now, he was once on the right track and you bunch of arragant, ignorant, biased, opinionated fools are yet to desprove the track that he once walked.

Pot? Meet kettle.

sorry bout two things, had to make some corrections, you retards really need a post/edit system!

No, you just need to become a bit smarter and learn how to proof your comment before posting it. Using a spell checker might help your credibility a bit as well.

Damn you people are the nut bags, show me the link that confirms your little 10% claims our your the ones who are discredited. Plus, if you didn’t care about evolution than you wouldn’t defend like you are! Again pissy little hipocrit.

I never said I didn’t care about it, I said my world view isn’t dependent on it. If some other credible theory were to come along that shows that the Theory of Evolution is all wrong I’d actually find that very fascinating given all of the supporting evidence the current theory has behind it to date.

What “Dr.” Carl Baugh is proposing, though, isn’t a credible theory. It’s a bunch of pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo that tries to wedge the fables in the Bible into a scientific suit. To anyone who has even a modest understanding of the theories in question it’s obvious that “Dr.” Carl Baugh is a nut case.

This is as good as Creation Science gets.

The only people on this planet ignorant enough to fall for creationism just happen to be the religious zealots of which this lunacy is part of their dogma.
IF Creationism had even the slightest evidence, data to even remotely support it then non-religious Scientist would at least entertain the Hypothesis long enough to disprove it.

No such controversy or debate exist.

I do not have a Ph.D but I do hold a Masters in Environmental Science from Stanford and worked for Scripps Inst. between 1984-1998 so I think I have a fair understanding of Evolutionary Theory.

One of the earlier post mentioned they had a “Biology teacher” whom refused to teach Evolution, then he should be fired immediately as it is technically impossible to teach Biology without using the very catalyst that ties it all together, the very cornerstone of all the life Sciences.

If I were going to school today and my teacher refused to teach Evolution I would head to the principle/Dean and demand action be taken or I would file a lawsuit.
This bullshit needs to be stopped in schools.

I have debated this Evolution Vs Creationism manure for many years and have never once found ONE creationist that would accept even the most overwhelming evidence that to anyone not suffering delusions is irrefutable.

So what I have decided in the last year or so is to stop defending what needs no defending, Evolutionary Theory needs no defending, the evidence for it is overwhelming, 100s of 1000s of Scientist from every field of research in every country for 150 years trying desperately to DISprove the theory have never come close, thus proving the theory well beyond any reasonable doubt, actually the core of Evolutionary Theory is probably THE most proven theory in all of Science.
There is not a Scientist on the face of the planet that wouldn’t love to DISprove Evolutionary Theory.
Funny thing is that the core of Evolution could easily be disproved if indeed it was not fact, all you need to do is simply show say a Hominid of any kind in the Jurassic or Cambrian periods along the Geological Column, BAM, Evolution disproved.

I just attack Creationism now with a vengeance & flatly refuse to defend Evolution any further as it clearly does no good whatsoever.
You will NEVER regardless how much irrefutable evidence presented convince a creationist of anything because facts mean nothing to them, so to waste time presenting it is of no value.

Proving Creationism to be bullshit will do no good either as they will refuse to accept factual reality, BUT, It is a hell of a lot more fun to watch them squirm and eventually sulk away.

http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/design2/article.html

http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/design1/article.html

On the flipside of how easy it would be to disprove Evolution BTW which has never been done, it would be just as easy to disprove Creationism by proving the opposite.

According to Creationist nutbags the entire fossil record was deposited in 1 year during a Global Flood just a few 1000 years ago.

That ignorant ass idea has been 101% debunked 1000s of times during every single paleontological & Geological dig which is of course all fervidly denied by all Creationist nutbags whole cloth. Their response to such irrefutable evidence everytime is to stick their fingers in their ears and shout goddidit, goddidit, goddidit godiditLALALALALALalalala.

Nunya gets gold star.  Nunya made me giggle!