Conservatives find creative way to push creationism in school.

Posted by Les on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 at 08:26 AM. Read 5592 times. Tags: ,
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The following is a complete reprint of an artice written by John Brice for The State News and was originally published on April 15th, 2004.  It’s being reprinted here with John’s permission and remains copyrighted by The State News.

I wanted to reprint the article for a couple of reasons, first it’s a good summary of the goals of the movement to have Intelligent Design Creationism taught in our public schools, of which Michigan is one state that is considering such a move. But the main reason I wanted to reprint the article is that it includes an argument against teaching IDC in schools that I hadn’t considered previously myself and which I’m willing to bet many IDC proponents also haven’t considered before. Namely, what IDC could potentially imply about the nature of the Designer it claims is necessary. It’s a good read and I appreciate John allowing me to reprint it in whole.

    Conservatives find creative way to push creationism in school

    Our public schools are under attack from religious warriors crusading to inject creationism into science classes. The most recently evolved variant of creationist propaganda is known as Intelligent Design Creationism (IDC) and has been constructed with the goal of slipping into science curriculums by masquerading as a science. To pull off this feat of deception, a nebulous and unnamed “designer” replaces traditional concepts of God.

    By carefully avoiding direct mention of God or any Judeo-Christian concepts, IDC attempts to circumvent church/state separation concerns. Beneath the sly ruse, however, is the clear implication that the “designer” is God. That’s why religious conservatives are so fanatical about promoting the inclusion of IDC theology in public schools.

    In October 2002, I wrote a feature article, “The Creationist Holy War,” for infidels.org. I discussed some reasons why including IDC in the nation’s science curriculum is damaging to both science and traditional religious beliefs. The fact that IDC is damaging to science is self-evident to the scientifically educated and has been widely discussed; however, the latter assertion is less well recognized and worth reiterating here.

    IDC is merely a modernized version of the “Argument from Design.” This flawed philosophy often takes the following form: Imagine you find a watch imbedded on a sandy beach. You observe the intricate construction. If any part had been placed randomly, in any other location, the watch would not function. Blind natural processes could not possibly have produced an item of such specific purpose and complexity; thus, it must have had a watchmaker.

    Next, the analogical leap. Creationists claim an examination of man and nature demonstrates the necessity of a God, just as an examination of the watch demanded the existence of a watchmaker. IDC adds the assertion that if any characteristic of man or nature is judged “irreducibly complex,” meaning that it couldn’t have evolved naturally, it’s proof of a designer. It’s an example of a fallacy called “Argument from Ignorance.”

    As an aside, God, paradoxically, seems to qualify as irreducibly complex. Could God have evolved naturally from “deity precursors?” God is supposedly perfect, without limits of power and knowledge. It would seem that such a being, in accordance with the principle of irreducible complexity, would prove the existence of a “Deity designer” and that designer must have a designer, ad infinitum.

    If there is to be any discussion of a creator in our public schools, it’s a safe bet the Judeo-Christian image of God would be preferred by most. This image, stubbornly difficult to extract from scripture, is of an omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent deity. Interestingly, such a being is not at all what IDC would elicit in the minds of our nation’s youth - quite the contrary. To understand why, we need to return to the analogy of the watch and watchmaker. Perhaps the watch can reveal something about its designer.

    Let’s suppose, after a comprehensive examination, we learn the watch is constructed from recycled parts left over from other machines, and some parts don’t seem to have a purpose at all. The watch keeps inaccurate time and has a very short working life before it begins to seriously malfunction and finally fail completely.

    Numerous inferences about the watchmaker are possible. Perhaps he didn’t try to make a good watch. Or, conceivably, he made the best possible watch with the materials available. Incompetence is a possibility. It’s also plausible that, for some unknown reason, the watchmaker intentionally built a faulty and poorly designed watch. In summary, we can say the watchmaker is either lazy, had a tight budget, was inept or intentionally produced a flawed product.

    As with the Argument from Design, let’s expand this watch analogy to the natural world. The watchmaker becomes God, and the watch becomes mankind and nature. Can this analogy tell us anything about God?

    Obviously, humans are significantly flawed. We are made of “recycled” biological material; our genome reveals abundant examples of reused DNA, seemingly borrowed from earlier forms, as well as a large amount of redundant and “switched off” genetic code. Humans have vestigial behaviors and anatomical structures (goose bumps, wisdom teeth, appendix, etc.); moreover, much of our anatomy is designed poorly for optimum function (knees, lower back, eyes, etc). Equally obvious, we are not built to last. Human beings inexorably degrade and fail over time, often in a painful and miserable decline. Therefore, assuming we are evidence of design, what judgment can we make about God?

    Our hypothetical deity fares no better than the watchmaker; God may be inept, lazy or simply doing his best with the materials at hand. Each of those conclusions, however, is incompatible with traditional depictions of God.

    Alternatively, God purposefully designed our imperfections. Under this possibility, God has the dubious honor of being directly responsible for cancer, Ebola, anthrax, HIV, birth defects, Alzheimer’s Disease, parasites, chronic pain, plagues, natural disasters and death. God would have specifically and purposefully designed a nearly infinite number of horrors and torments in both man and the natural world.

    This possibility turns God into a malevolent monster rather than a loving creator. Mainstream religions grapple with this “problem of evil” by attempting to deflect blame away from their deity. Original sin, Satan, and the “gift of free will” are fashionable, yet horribly flawed, efforts to remove culpability from the Almighty. However, IDC offers no attempt whatsoever to redirect blame; it places the responsibility for all suffering and all design flaws squarely on the shoulders of the designer.

    Educated Americans value the separation of church and state for many reasons. Central among these is an antipathy toward government defining God for all. If government requires IDC to be taught in public school science classes, it will be promoting the concept of a sadistic or flawed creator. Coupled with the fact that IDC is not a scientific theory, theists should be as outraged as scientists with the prospect of neo-creationism being imposed on our children.

    John Bice is an MSU staff member. He can be reached at .

Comments:

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Socialist Swine Canada Posted on 01/28/2005 at 03:44 PM

Socialist Swine pic

We generate crap?  If that isn’t the pot calling the kettle black I have no idea what is.

thrival United States Posted on 01/28/2005 at 04:20 PM

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As the product of evolution that you are, I’ve already demolished your meaningless, purposeless arguements. Enjoy your purposeless existence, because even learning presumes there’s something to know, i.e. facts, based upon a nonrelative truth. Without that, there’s no basis for knowing anything, which puts you squarely where you’re at.

elwedriddsche United States Posted on 01/28/2005 at 04:45 PM

elwedriddsche pic

Where’s the smiley for “rolling on the floor, laughing my ass off and peeing in my pants”?

Trollval, well done.

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Science is answers that must always be questioned.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.
Religion is answers that must never be questioned.
Politics is answers that lobbyists pay for.

thrival United States Posted on 01/28/2005 at 06:15 PM

thrival pic

Socialist swine’s evolutionary achievement (himself) isn’t improving and has no purpose beyond mere physical continuation (he said it, I didn’t), so who would ever think he had any more meaningful point to make? Ditto for those who agree with him.

Les United States Posted on 01/28/2005 at 06:27 PM

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Yeah, it’s pretty clear he’s little more than a troll, eh? Still, some of the nonsense he’s spewing is pretty damn funny.

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All I know is the wine lasts longer when you don’t gotta share it with someone
All I know is my steak tastes better when I take my steak tastes better pill
-- I Feel Fantastic, Jonathan Coulton

Socialist Swine Canada Posted on 01/28/2005 at 06:29 PM

Socialist Swine pic

thrival,

Perhaps you should read more, or at least get yourself a decent dictionary.  Evolution occurs on the population level.  Individuals don’t evolve, especially when you consider that evolution only means a shift in gene frequency.  Perhaps you should know what the words mean before you use them.  It would probably do a lot with your problem with having people break out in laughter after you say things.  Also I never said that improvement didn’t extend beyond mere physical continuation.  I just said that evolution, a very limited notion doesn’t require appeal to the supernatural to explain its processes.  So in fact you did say it I never did.  Maybe you should get Hooked on Phonics, I hear that program really helps people who have a hard time with fancy things like reading.

elwedriddsche United States Posted on 01/28/2005 at 06:50 PM

elwedriddsche pic

Still, some of the nonsense he’s spewing is pretty damn funny.

I loves me some comic relief.

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Science is answers that must always be questioned.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.
Religion is answers that must never be questioned.
Politics is answers that lobbyists pay for.

thrival United States Posted on 01/28/2005 at 07:12 PM

thrival pic

Oh socialist swine, there you go back-peddaling, trying to be an exception to the general evolutionary law you espouse. You ARE one of the population with genetic tree common to ‘apes,’ so own it, and the implications you inherited. Your achievement is meaningless and has no purpose and I concur. Or are you a spirit using an ape body? A self-repairing machine is pretty sophisticated if you ask me. We have yet to design anything that comes even close, and yet you would assert it as a random/evolutionary event. Amusing one’s self comes natural, but can never be mistaken for knowledge or learning.

Socialist Swine Canada Posted on 01/28/2005 at 07:29 PM

Socialist Swine pic

You suffer from brain damage don’t you?  I never back pedaled at all, and you still need Hooked on Phonics, or perhaps you need to be a little less hooked on the chronic.  If you aren’t suffering from brain damage (no offense to anyone else who might have had a head injury) you must be getting high or something.

thrival United States Posted on 01/28/2005 at 08:21 PM

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Swine-- (no pearls before you); you can always resort to derision when failing to establish any meaningful point or purpose, but consider what an idiot you and your peanut gallery of friends truly are. You can’t even heal a paper cut, much less instruct your bowels. Thank goodness there’s a Higher Power who handles that for you.

As far as phonics, I’ve actually taught people to read. I think UB one of those who strains at gnats and swallows camels.

Socialist Swine Canada Posted on 01/28/2005 at 08:57 PM

Socialist Swine pic

That’s actually pretty funny.  However, you made a small error.  You think that I’m trying to make a point, I’m not.  Why would I waste my time trying to enlighten someone who is so clearly revelling in their own self delusion.  My only purpose in responding to your comments is to see just how much abuse you’re willing to accept.  I call this little game of mine anti-trolling.  Oh by the way, Corky called he wants his retardedness back (no offense to other retarded people, I’m not saying that you’re anything like thrival).

thrival United States Posted on 01/28/2005 at 09:05 PM

thrival pic

You’re not trying to make a point because you can’t; your philosophy precludes it. The ultimate abuse you do to yourself (what’s in a name.)

Socialist Swine Canada Posted on 01/28/2005 at 09:50 PM

Socialist Swine pic

Just because you string together words doesn’t mean that you’re actually saying anything.  What philosophy are you talking about?  Ummm, also “The ultimate abuse you do to yourself (what’s in a name)” isn’t a sentence.  It’s just a predicate you need a subject.  It would become a sentence if you said something like “X (where X is the thing that is the abuse) is the ultimate abuse you do to yourself.” Also the “(what’s in a name)” clause is a question that should be independent.  However, it shouldn’t be included in this section because it really doesn’t make sense given the context.  So I refer you again to Hooked on Phonics.

Les United States Posted on 01/28/2005 at 09:51 PM

Les pic

I wonder if Thrival has to work hard to be that much of a clueless dumbfuck or if it just comes naturally…

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All I know is the wine lasts longer when you don’t gotta share it with someone
All I know is my steak tastes better when I take my steak tastes better pill
-- I Feel Fantastic, Jonathan Coulton

Ulfrekr United States Posted on 01/28/2005 at 10:28 PM

Ulfrekr pic

I love this:
Thrival says…

A self-repairing machine is pretty sophisticated if you ask me. We have yet to design anything that comes even close, and yet you would assert it as a random/evolutionary event.

Brilliant argument for your side Thrival. You think our inability to create life UNDERCUTS our argument that life WASN’T created? So does the fact that we can design a watch mean that watches are the result of a random/evolutionary event?

shana Japan Posted on 01/29/2005 at 12:21 AM

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Thrival, I won’t even bother to make a point.  It’s clear that you’re an immature fuckwit.
Go masturbate your ego at church because I don’t have a lot of respect for that and it sure as hell doesn’t convince me of anything you’ve said.

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“Like reindeer in the sky you can.”

zilch Austria Posted on 01/29/2005 at 04:33 AM

zilch pic

Well, the progress (if one can call it that) of this thread certainly proves one thing- regardless of whether people evolved or not, they are capable of devolving at the drop of a hat into neener-neener machines.  Shame on all of you for calling thrival such naughty names.

I will do my best to tone the discussion up a bit, by sticking to the facts.

Gosh you folks generate/sling SO much crap in such a short period of time, you should have a firetruck follow you around.

No wonder thrival is so confused.  No one ever told him what firetrucks really do, and he’s built an entire worldview around the notion that they exist to follow crapslingers.  This leads naturally enough to the notion that fundamentalists exist to follow atheists and clean up their shit.  So let’s cut him a little slack.

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You were born.  And so you’re free.  So happy birthday.
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Socialist Swine Canada Posted on 01/29/2005 at 04:40 AM

Socialist Swine pic

I didn’t even notice the crap/firetruck line.  I think that’s just more evidence for my belief that thrival should get Hooked on Phonics....

Nunyabiz United States Posted on 01/29/2005 at 01:04 PM

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Wow what a bunch of shit, after reading all what Thrival has spewed Im still confused as to what the hell he attempting to say.

So all of us infidels, heathens, Atheist who are rather certain about the theory of Evolution because it is based on verifiable facts, can be tested, predictions made, mountains of data, etc.
Because of this we have “no meaning” no purpose in our lives.?

Yet somehow or another he has Meaning & purpose because he believes a fantasy, fairytale, or has some “spiritual reality” that he is privy to, I imagine because his mythical little Sun God has somehow magically conveyed this miraculous little tidbit to him through Im assuming “the voices in his head”?

Think that about covers it.

This “spiritual Reality” with all its implied meaning & purpose can normally be cured with a few doses of Thorozine would be my prediction to give credence to my hypothesis that Thrival needs psychiatric care.

thrival United States Posted on 01/29/2005 at 02:53 PM

thrival pic

Ulfrekr is the only one who even comes close to rising to a meaningful scientific debate. (The rest of you devolve to neener-neener language issues.) He said:

“Brilliant argument for your side Thrival. You think our inability to create life UNDERCUTS our argument that life WASN’T created? So does the fact that we can design a watch mean that watches are the result of a random/evolutionary event?”

No, I wouldn’t say that watches are a random/evolutionary event, which extends to the fact that bodies of all species, while imperfect, are self-repairing machines. Just because life appears familiar to you doesn’t mean you understand it, or take away its very miraculous nature. I mean, go ahead and string DNA together manually and see what you can come up with. You don’t know how you were made, how you were assembled, can’t fix yourself when something breaks, and yet presume nothing more intelligent than you could possibly exist that does these very things routinely and quite blithe to your opinions about it.

Subjects and predicates; allow me to elucidate because I don’t know if you’re really that stupid or just pretending to be. Swine is how you define yourself. I’ll accept that.

Who said I was a fundamentalist or that I go to church? Stupid assumptions u’all make. Sometimes I’ll quote the bible or any other book I find convenient. You shouldn’t jump to conclusions over it.

I didn’t say I didn’t “believe in” (tho I know you hate to admit it’s just another belief system) evolution. I absolutely KNOW evolution occurs, with spirit involvement, because nature is the realm where spirits do their work. And with that I assert that their goal is perfecting (improving) those lifeforms. Swine asserts that evolution’s role in maintaining those forms is enough because purpose (meaning) or improvement isn’t required. So I conclude that a meaningless philosophy (if it were true) precludes a meaningful life, which would extend to everyone who shares his views. I mean, TRUE meaning would have to come from somewhere outside one’s self since you obviously didn’t create yourselves. That’s obvious and doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see. Something other than you obviously sees your existence as meaningful or you wouldn’t be here. The alternative is that your existence is meaningless. So if you want to assert that you are all (including everything you say is) meaningless, I’ll accept that. If your minds can’t rise to the logical thread that leads to such an obvious conclusion, I would concur that you all suffer from some head injury or other.

Actually I understand you betther than that. You’re all cynical over the hypocrisy of fundamentalist christianity, which is understandable, given all the pedaster priests and televangelist marketeers, often caught with their pants down. But you’re mistake is not looking further, or thinking that a nonintelligent universe could produce intelligence (assuming you identify with or could call yourselves intelligent), when that nonintelligent universe can do things that you “intelligent” beings cannot do.

elwedriddsche United States Posted on 01/29/2005 at 03:21 PM

elwedriddsche pic

Interesting - it can be provoked into longer posts. Still nothing but gibberish and tired old stuff that requires rocket surgery, though.

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Science is answers that must always be questioned.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.
Religion is answers that must never be questioned.
Politics is answers that lobbyists pay for.

Ulfrekr United States Posted on 01/29/2005 at 03:33 PM

Ulfrekr pic

Whoever said life had to have a meaning? It’s not enough to just enjoy it, you have to come up with some sort of magical justification for it?

elwedriddsche United States Posted on 01/29/2005 at 03:45 PM

elwedriddsche pic

Whoever said life had to have a meaning?

See also what Paul Tobin has to say about this.

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Science is answers that must always be questioned.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.
Religion is answers that must never be questioned.
Politics is answers that lobbyists pay for.

thrival United States Posted on 01/29/2005 at 03:56 PM

thrival pic

How could I possible “enjoy” a condition which I knew deep down, was meaningless? Humans have a desire to understand things, some more than others. Nature/life IS miraculous, I didn’t make it so. It’s miraculous to me because it does things that humans cannot do. And that’s why I’m humble about it.

You can speculate about what made God or if He can make a rock bigger than he can move, (etc.) all you like. You don’t need to fully understand or agree with God or even like Him. All you need to know is there’s a Power and Intelligence “out there” that makes yours look puny in comparison.

Let me finish by saying swine does himself a disservice by labelling himself so. By his own evolutionary philosophy, ‘ape’ would be more rigorously accurate.

elwedriddsche United States Posted on 01/29/2005 at 04:05 PM

elwedriddsche pic

Come on, trollval, have you shot your wad already that you can’t do better than this?

 Signature 

Science is answers that must always be questioned.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.
Religion is answers that must never be questioned.
Politics is answers that lobbyists pay for.

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