Conservatives find creative way to push creationism in school.

Posted by Les on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 at 08:26 AM. Read 6089 times. Tags: ,
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The following is a complete reprint of an artice written by John Brice for The State News and was originally published on April 15th, 2004.  It’s being reprinted here with John’s permission and remains copyrighted by The State News.

I wanted to reprint the article for a couple of reasons, first it’s a good summary of the goals of the movement to have Intelligent Design Creationism taught in our public schools, of which Michigan is one state that is considering such a move. But the main reason I wanted to reprint the article is that it includes an argument against teaching IDC in schools that I hadn’t considered previously myself and which I’m willing to bet many IDC proponents also haven’t considered before. Namely, what IDC could potentially imply about the nature of the Designer it claims is necessary. It’s a good read and I appreciate John allowing me to reprint it in whole.

    Conservatives find creative way to push creationism in school

    Our public schools are under attack from religious warriors crusading to inject creationism into science classes. The most recently evolved variant of creationist propaganda is known as Intelligent Design Creationism (IDC) and has been constructed with the goal of slipping into science curriculums by masquerading as a science. To pull off this feat of deception, a nebulous and unnamed “designer” replaces traditional concepts of God.

    By carefully avoiding direct mention of God or any Judeo-Christian concepts, IDC attempts to circumvent church/state separation concerns. Beneath the sly ruse, however, is the clear implication that the “designer” is God. That’s why religious conservatives are so fanatical about promoting the inclusion of IDC theology in public schools.

    In October 2002, I wrote a feature article, “The Creationist Holy War,” for infidels.org. I discussed some reasons why including IDC in the nation’s science curriculum is damaging to both science and traditional religious beliefs. The fact that IDC is damaging to science is self-evident to the scientifically educated and has been widely discussed; however, the latter assertion is less well recognized and worth reiterating here.

    IDC is merely a modernized version of the “Argument from Design.” This flawed philosophy often takes the following form: Imagine you find a watch imbedded on a sandy beach. You observe the intricate construction. If any part had been placed randomly, in any other location, the watch would not function. Blind natural processes could not possibly have produced an item of such specific purpose and complexity; thus, it must have had a watchmaker.

    Next, the analogical leap. Creationists claim an examination of man and nature demonstrates the necessity of a God, just as an examination of the watch demanded the existence of a watchmaker. IDC adds the assertion that if any characteristic of man or nature is judged “irreducibly complex,” meaning that it couldn’t have evolved naturally, it’s proof of a designer. It’s an example of a fallacy called “Argument from Ignorance.”

    As an aside, God, paradoxically, seems to qualify as irreducibly complex. Could God have evolved naturally from “deity precursors?” God is supposedly perfect, without limits of power and knowledge. It would seem that such a being, in accordance with the principle of irreducible complexity, would prove the existence of a “Deity designer” and that designer must have a designer, ad infinitum.

    If there is to be any discussion of a creator in our public schools, it’s a safe bet the Judeo-Christian image of God would be preferred by most. This image, stubbornly difficult to extract from scripture, is of an omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent deity. Interestingly, such a being is not at all what IDC would elicit in the minds of our nation’s youth - quite the contrary. To understand why, we need to return to the analogy of the watch and watchmaker. Perhaps the watch can reveal something about its designer.

    Let’s suppose, after a comprehensive examination, we learn the watch is constructed from recycled parts left over from other machines, and some parts don’t seem to have a purpose at all. The watch keeps inaccurate time and has a very short working life before it begins to seriously malfunction and finally fail completely.

    Numerous inferences about the watchmaker are possible. Perhaps he didn’t try to make a good watch. Or, conceivably, he made the best possible watch with the materials available. Incompetence is a possibility. It’s also plausible that, for some unknown reason, the watchmaker intentionally built a faulty and poorly designed watch. In summary, we can say the watchmaker is either lazy, had a tight budget, was inept or intentionally produced a flawed product.

    As with the Argument from Design, let’s expand this watch analogy to the natural world. The watchmaker becomes God, and the watch becomes mankind and nature. Can this analogy tell us anything about God?

    Obviously, humans are significantly flawed. We are made of “recycled” biological material; our genome reveals abundant examples of reused DNA, seemingly borrowed from earlier forms, as well as a large amount of redundant and “switched off” genetic code. Humans have vestigial behaviors and anatomical structures (goose bumps, wisdom teeth, appendix, etc.); moreover, much of our anatomy is designed poorly for optimum function (knees, lower back, eyes, etc). Equally obvious, we are not built to last. Human beings inexorably degrade and fail over time, often in a painful and miserable decline. Therefore, assuming we are evidence of design, what judgment can we make about God?

    Our hypothetical deity fares no better than the watchmaker; God may be inept, lazy or simply doing his best with the materials at hand. Each of those conclusions, however, is incompatible with traditional depictions of God.

    Alternatively, God purposefully designed our imperfections. Under this possibility, God has the dubious honor of being directly responsible for cancer, Ebola, anthrax, HIV, birth defects, Alzheimer’s Disease, parasites, chronic pain, plagues, natural disasters and death. God would have specifically and purposefully designed a nearly infinite number of horrors and torments in both man and the natural world.

    This possibility turns God into a malevolent monster rather than a loving creator. Mainstream religions grapple with this “problem of evil” by attempting to deflect blame away from their deity. Original sin, Satan, and the “gift of free will” are fashionable, yet horribly flawed, efforts to remove culpability from the Almighty. However, IDC offers no attempt whatsoever to redirect blame; it places the responsibility for all suffering and all design flaws squarely on the shoulders of the designer.

    Educated Americans value the separation of church and state for many reasons. Central among these is an antipathy toward government defining God for all. If government requires IDC to be taught in public school science classes, it will be promoting the concept of a sadistic or flawed creator. Coupled with the fact that IDC is not a scientific theory, theists should be as outraged as scientists with the prospect of neo-creationism being imposed on our children.

    John Bice is an MSU staff member. He can be reached at .

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decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 02/07/2005 at 04:49 PM

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Thrival’s claim is his (mis)understanding of the reductio ad absurdum of an atheist approach to morality.

He appears to be riding that tired old horse whose neigh sounds like “If you don’t have divine morality to guide you, why don’t you just lie and kill and cheat and steal?”

There’s lots of reasons why atheists may choose to act morally but my reasons are in two parts.  First, I take no pleasure in hurting others, and second, it makes sense to paddle in the general direction you want the boat to go. 

What a charming fellow.  hmmm

KPatrickGlover United States Posted on 02/07/2005 at 04:49 PM

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thrival - I wasn’t talking about your inability to see basic moral distinctions. As shocking and disturbing as that is, it’s certainly no topic for an entertaining TV show. I was instead referrin to your long line of whacky beliefs, ie: Sai Baba, Dr. Duesberg, Free Energy, weather control, etc.

Never before has so much Bullshit been touted by a single source. Astounding.

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Ulfrekr United States Posted on 02/07/2005 at 05:35 PM

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One thing we tend to not realize is the extent to which we infantilize our children. There is little doubt that we do not reach full physical or emotional maturity until some time between the late teens and the early twenties; however, the effects of this are somewhat amplified by our society. We do not expect children to have a great deal of personal responsibility or maturity until they are 18 or so, and we socialize them under these expectations, but this is not true for all cultures, and there is little reason to assume that our way of doing things is objectively the best. We have the luxury of allowing our young a good five or six years of sexual development before we expect them to take on the full privileges and responsibilities of adults. In subsistence-level cultures with significantly lower life expectancies, this luxury cannot be supported; in order for those societies to survive, it is often necessary for people to start reproducing much sooner after it become physically possible for them to do so than is generally encourage in our society. In short, like most everything else in human society, the notion of age is relative. A 15-year-old American high school student in the 21st century has been largely sheltered from the “facts of life”, is not expected to exercise adult responsibility until turning 18 (and only gradually at that), and not expected to reproduce until some time in their late 20’s or early 30’s. A 15-year-old in the South Pacific in the 17th century would have grown up essentially surrounded by sex (human and animal), would probably be considered a full adult already, and might well have reproduced. By 18, he would probably already be providing for a family, by 30 he might be a grandfather, and by 40 he could be dead. For better or for worse, that makes it awfully hard for us to make moral judgments about how that young islander might have interacted with society, and how it might have interacted with him.
By the same logic, of course, one can seriously question why anyone would think it was a good idea to base a modern system of morality and conduct on a dead society from over 2000 years ago. Not that anyone’s actually doing so, regardless of what they might claim, unless I just haven’t been invited to all the public stonings.

nowiser United States Posted on 02/07/2005 at 07:02 PM

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I don’t think Thrival actually read enough of the link to figure out that the -reasons- that these Pacific Islanders participated in ‘homosexual’ practices were not sexual.

Unlike NAMBLA, this isn’t a case of predation. 

The islanders believe that sperm has mystical properties (perhaps it’s its ‘homochirality’ that makes it spay-shul!).  They believe that it’s -impossible- for a boy to become a man without ingesting the male ‘essence.’ In a ‘you are what you eat’ kind of way, the symbolic system that drives this behavior is kind of logical.

The -behavior- on the other hand, is labeled ‘bad’ by Thrival, because it ‘turns his stomach.’

*Whatever*

I want my fucking badge already!  SEB first order, with the little yellow braid, and the psuedo-satanist logo in the top left corner.

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It vexes me when they would constrain science by the authority of the Scriptures, and yet do not consider themselves bound to answer reason and experiment—Galileo

KPatrickGlover United States Posted on 02/07/2005 at 07:15 PM

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This seems like the perfect place for a “we don’t need no steenkin’ badges” joke but I just can’t seem to put one together right now.

sigh.

I appear to be coming down with a case of wit lag....

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shana Japan Posted on 02/07/2005 at 07:36 PM

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Important Warning for those who have been drawn unsuspectingly into the use of bread:

1.  More than 98 percent of convicted felons are bread users.

2.  Fully HALF of all children who grow up in bread-consuming households score below average on standardized tests.

3.  In the 18th century, when virtually all bread was baked in the home, the average life expectancy was less than 50 years; infant mortality rates were unacceptably high; many women died in childbirth; and diseases such as typhoid, yellow fever, and influenza ravaged whole nations.

4.  More than 90 percent of violent crimes are committed within 24 hours of eating bread.

5.  Bread is made from a substance called “dough.” It has been proven that as little as one pound of dough can be used to suffocate a mouse. The average American eats more bread than that in one month!

6.  Primitive tribal societies that have no bread exhibit a low incidence of cancer, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s disease, and osteoporosis.

7.  Bread has been proven to be addictive. Subjects deprived of bread and given only water to eat begged for bread after as little as two days.

8.  Bread is often a “gateway” food item, leading the user to “harder” items such as butter, jelly, peanut butter, and even cold cuts.

9.  Bread has been proven to absorb water. Since the human body is more than 90 percent water, it follows that eating bread could lead to your body being taken over by this absorptive food product, turning you into a soggy, gooey bread-pudding person.

10.  Newborn babies can choke on bread.

11.  Bread is baked at temperatures as high as 400 degrees Fahrenheit! That kind of heat can kill an adult in less than one minute.

12.  Most American bread eaters are utterly unable to distinguish between significant scientific fact and meaningless statistical
babbling.

In light of these frightening statistics, we propose the following bread restrictions:

1.  No sale of bread to minors.

2.  A nationwide “Just Say No To Toast” campaign, complete with celebrity TV spots and bumper stickers.

3.  A 300 percent federal tax on all bread to pay for all the societal ills we might associate with bread.

4.  No animal or human images, nor any primary colors (which may appeal to children) may be used to promote bread usage.

5.  The establishment of “Bread-free” zones around schools.

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decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 02/07/2005 at 07:42 PM

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Re: frightening bread stats.
Shana, LOL!!!  LOL  I needed that.

Definitely one for the “smutfile.”

elwedriddsche United States Posted on 02/07/2005 at 07:45 PM

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11.  Bread is baked at temperatures as high as 400 degrees Fahrenheit!

Europeans do it hotter.

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shana Japan Posted on 02/07/2005 at 07:50 PM

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Heh.  My HS principle had a magnet on his filing cabinet that said
“Druids do it in the woods”
and another that said
“Gene Police:
You--Out of the gene pool!”

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thrival United States Posted on 02/07/2005 at 08:18 PM

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Brock: well if we’re to believe nowiser, ‘What’s consent got to do with it?’ I mean not many volunteers to be the victim of “Pederasty, murder, incest, rape...” (he missed human sacrifice) and yet “...none of these things are --inherently-- bad.â€? (nowiser) Beliefs make it OK I guess.

Glover: well I will admit that Sai Baba is more your speed; if he doesn’t prove my point in one way, he at least does in another (see above.) NAMBLA is getting impatient with you all. You’re stepping on their moral rights to your children.

decrepitoldfool: (if) “There’s lots of reasons why atheists may choose to act morally but my reasons are in two parts.  First, I take no pleasure in hurting others, and second, it makes sense to paddle in the general direction you want the boat to go.” My question to first is, why not? and second, since you don’t believe in life after death, all directions of atheist boats lead to oblivion. 

Shana: that bread stuff sounds supiciously like atheists twisting science to suit their arguements.

shana Japan Posted on 02/07/2005 at 08:49 PM

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Why not?  Because he’s not a sadist like you apparently are.  Why else would you be so crazy about this discussion--it seems only your religion holds you back from committing atrocities, whereas we have morality that can’t even be removed with lack of faith.  PS, we like our children, we want them to be happy.  Even though we will die, we want th world to be a better place for future generations.

In short, why do we care?

BECAUSE WE’RE NOT ASSHOLES, THAT’S WHY.

Oh, and that bread thing, THAT WAS A JOKE.  A parody of the way in which you new agey anti-milk types twist science to suit your arguments.

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KPatrickGlover United States Posted on 02/07/2005 at 08:52 PM

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For some reason Thrical’s continued spewing brings this piece by George Carlin to mind. It’s called “How To Handle A Heckler”

Would somebody just put a dick in that guys mouth, please? Cause that’s what he wants. He’s a cocksucker in disguise. He’s got his mouth open because he wants someone to cum in it. Now do you want to keep making noise, mother fucker, and we can find you that way or are you just a punk, coward, asshole bullshit loud mother fucker and you’re goin to shut up now so we don’t find out where you’re sitting. Cause if you keep it up we’ll grab your ass and throw you on the street where you belong. With your mother. And I’m fucking her in the asshole every night, anyway. So fuck you and your sister and your wife. If you’ve got a kid, I hope your fucking kid dies in a car fire. How do you like that you stupid cocksucker? Shut the fuck up and get the fuck out of here.

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nowiser United States Posted on 02/07/2005 at 11:46 PM

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Brock: well if we’re to believe nowiser, ‘What’s consent got to do with it?’

Wow, that’s amazing.  You actually -are- made of cheese.  You read what I wrote, then asserted that I was making a claim that was entirely the opposite of what I had actually written.

Consent has -everything- to do with it. 

I’m Dr. Dribble!  I LOVE milk! Milk is tasty and healthy and good for you *big smiles*

I can see the attraction in completely misrepresenting someone’s opinion, though.  It’s certainly easier than coming up with a coherent position.

Here, let’s give it another shot. . .

naaah.  That would just be low.

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It vexes me when they would constrain science by the authority of the Scriptures, and yet do not consider themselves bound to answer reason and experiment—Galileo

Brock United States Posted on 02/08/2005 at 12:44 AM

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I LOVE my SEB people (well, except for thrival, of course). You guys are just the BEST. Com’ere, I’ve got huggies and I know people who deserve one or a dozen.

Gosh, I’m just gonna burst with all the pent up emotion I’m feeling, I just AM! I’m smilin’ like a little gurlie man.

Seriously, who wants a hug?

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KPatrickGlover United States Posted on 02/08/2005 at 12:48 AM

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Hug away, big guy.....

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Socialist Swine Canada Posted on 02/08/2005 at 02:01 AM

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thrival,

Your talk about oblivion and afterlife leads me to speculate that you believe right and wrong action depends on reward or punishment.  That’s a pretty shallow view of morality.  I think the person who does the right thing without any concern for reward is far more morally praiseworthy than the one who does what they do to get personal benefit.

Brock,

You have diapers you want to give us?  I don’t know about down there in the states, but up here in Canada Huggies is a major brand of disposable diapers.

Tish Australia Posted on 02/08/2005 at 04:17 AM

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Go for it boys, give thrival what he really wants - man-touching!
Ooooo yeah!

Les United States Posted on 02/08/2005 at 07:18 AM

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I’m always open to a good hug and this week I could use a couple.

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decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 02/08/2005 at 07:24 AM

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Thrival, see if you can find the small tree in this picture:

Too difficult?  Not surprising since you couldn’t find the joke in Shana’s “bread” comment and seem to have an unlimited ability to misunderstand what others are saying.  No wonder you fall prey to every dingbat idea that comes your way.

Trying to convince you of anything is an utter waste of wear and tear on my keyboard.  I will continue to make fun of you, however.

Brock:  I’ll see your hug and raise you a manly high-five.  tongue wink

elwedriddsche United States Posted on 02/08/2005 at 07:53 AM

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DOF: Typo alert. The correct spelling is “No wonder you fall pray"…

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thrival United States Posted on 02/08/2005 at 08:06 AM

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While it may sound like heckling to you, believe it or not I’m really trying to understand you folks. It’s just what appears to be incoherent, illogical and/or lame positions you seem to take that I comment on, with spotty, circumstantial (and I’m sure unsatisfactory to you) evidence from time to time. Neither do I find your so-called scientific evidence to be unbiased.

Nowiser: Please explain “consent” when referring to “Pederasty, murder, incest, rape, none of these things are --inherently-- bad.â€? If I consent to be the murderee, is it still murder? (The definition for murder is “to kill or slaughter inhumanely or barbarously.” (i.e. lacking a volunteer.) Likewise my older New Century Dictionary defines ‘pederasty’ as unnatural sex between a male and a boy. Since we’re talking ‘boy’ and someone above mentioned that kids don’t naturally gravitate toward these things, so it implies adult seductions. The very definition of ‘rape’ is unwilling sex, and while incest CAN be voluntary, most of the time it isn’t, or again, adult seduction applies, at least in the beginning. So of all the above whose definition imply, suggest or outright state LACK of consent, just WTF do you mean “It’s all about consent.” All dialectic transmogrifications aside, I’m afraid you stepped in a pile of shit here. Because in my opinion, people who do these things ARE assholes and you as an atheist and SEB are the only person I hear advocating them, although none of your friends seem to object in any but a token way, except Shana, who likes to point the finger at me for pointing out your inconsistencies.

Swine: you need to have a chat with BF Skinner. It’s always been about rewards and punishments. Idealism, freedom and the virtues all hail from another place. Humans don’t have enough brains to invent them.

GeekMom United States Posted on 02/08/2005 at 08:14 AM

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Nowiser: Please explain “consent� when referring to “Pederasty, murder, incest, rape, none of these things are --inherently-- bad.� If I consent to be the murderee, is it still murder?

Trivial, are you intentionally trying to be obtuse??  Of COURSE those things don’t imply MUTUAL CONSENT.  It’s all about MUTUAL CONSENT, you nincompoop.  And possible harm to someone else that comes from it (in the case of incest) even if they are consenting.

Homosexual sex between consenting adults = NO PROBLEM.

Rape, pedophilia, all the other things you’re trying to tie into it = BAD.

How hard IS this to understand, really?  Even if you can’t understand it, can’t you take it on faith?  You seem to do it a lot for everything else.

DOF, I love you some more.  If I were a coffee drinker, I’d have been spraying it.

Les United States Posted on 02/08/2005 at 09:08 AM

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We should give Thrival a little credit for having evolved over the course of his time spent here. Back in the beginning he was haughtily proclaiming things such as…

Despite anything I’ve said, I by no means presume you are educable or that it’s my job.

And now he’s saying things like…

While it may sound like heckling to you, believe it or not I’m really trying to understand you folks.

Assuming he’s sincere, that’s a big step for someone with a belief system as… varied… as his tends to be.

Yes, I’m being nice for a change in part because Thrival appears to be modifying his approach somewhat and I’m more than willing to modify mine in response. There are a lot of people out there that share Thrival’s credulity and penchant for throwing a whole bunch of different concepts and conspiracy theories into a pot and calling it a belief system so from that perspective debating the different concepts he’s basing his beliefs on is worthwhile regardless of whether it changes his mind in particular.

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Brock United States Posted on 02/08/2005 at 10:12 AM

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...so from that perspective debating the different concepts he’s basing his beliefs on is worthwhile regardless of whether it changes his mind in particular.

That’s exactly why I spoke to thrival after berating others for bothering. It finally dawned on me that others could benefit from the discussions he inspired even if all he planned to continue doing was push emotional buttons.

It became about more about reaching the fools of the world than the fool who is thrival and hoping they would stop and think in his place.

That and a little venting…

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nowiser United States Posted on 02/08/2005 at 10:22 AM

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Rape, pedophilia, all the other things you’re trying to tie into it = BAD.

I think Thrival is still having trouble grasping the idea that ‘bad’ is a socially constructed and relative term.  In his world view, ‘bad’ exists, even if every single conscious entity in the universe were suddenly wiped from existence, it would still be possible for there to be ‘bad’ things.

I don’t agree.  Morality is a -value- system.  Values do not exist independently of a valuer. (That’s not to say that there aren’t atheists who will make a passionate defense of a moral system that they claim is both objective and secular.  I don’t happen to believe that their positions are logically coherent, but I don’t want to give Thrival the impression that I’m somehow defining, for him, the moral philosophy which undergirds --all-- of atheism).

Thrival, if I understand him correctly, is arguing very much from the sort of Platonic ideal that is embedded in the thought of CS Lewis, and which showed up repeatedly in Hires’ argument.

His argument is that atheist morality lacks an objective basis, that it is an artificial and human construction.

To which I can only respond, of course it is.  And religion, and god-belief, and Platonic idealism are all examples, similarly, of concepts that are ‘artificial and human constructions.’ They don’t speak to the ‘nature’ of “Nature,” if you will, any more than a cloudgazer’s idle observation that ‘hey, that looks like a horse’s head!  And look, over there, that’s a butterfly!”

Animals rape, kill their own young, slaughter each other in lust-driven rage, cannibalize their own species, and lay their eggs in the still living carcasses of their prey.  Geiger may have dreamt up a few horrors, but Nature is his muse.

A wolf is a pack animal.  If there is a threat to the pack, the wolf may stand and fight, to protect its pack mates, until it is struck down.

A shark, in the same situation, may well use the opportunity to turn on a wounded shark and eat it.

Is a wolf ‘good’ and ‘noble?’ Is a shark ‘bad’ and ‘evil?”

If you answer -yes-, then you’re adhering to an essentially Platonic worldview that asserts that there is some ideal, amorphous, invisible ‘good and bad’ ruler by which all things are measured.

there is no evidence for such a ruler

I have to abandon the discussion mid-stream, as it were, because it’s back to work for me.

Anyway, to simplify, it’s not bad when animals do things that we would normally think of as ‘bad,’ anymore than it’s ‘bad’ for a rock to fall toward the ground when it’s dropped.

I’ll have to wait for another time to try to articulate where human value systems tie into the system, although I think -many- of the people on this board have already delineated the relationship pretty clearly, in previous threads.

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