Eric again;
You are your own brand of “fundies” all; fully convinced that all of your beliefs are right on, vigorously proselitizing for converts, mocking those who believe differently than you, etc.
Your right Swordsbane. God is a beautiful thing however this all happened. I observe that there exists loads of beauty in both arguments. Both sides are entirely too polarized.
I accidentally stumbled upon this web site this morning and decided to make a simple posting. There hasn’t been a posting here since April 28th. I came back to see if my posting even made it on. The entire cast had jumped on my posting like a busted pinata. Two postings in one day for you self-described intellectuals to chop up? You may be close to getting a life. Ready, Set, Go ! Fundementalists, unite! Whatever your religion!
P.S. If you happen to find any spelling or syntax errors, don’t use them to strengthen your beliefs!

The entire cast

Don’t kid yourself, fool.
Most couldn’t be bothered responding because probably like me they were unable to guess at what you were on about.
I noticed a coupla blokes were able to guess and commented accordingly but you shit on them anyway.

I hope your job doesn’t entail being responsible for the safety of others; you sound as though you’re about ready to snap.

Daltonboy: “There hasn’t been a posting here since April 28th. I came back to see if my posting even made it on. The entire cast had jumped on my posting like a busted pinata. Two postings in one day for you self-described intellectuals to chop up? You may be close to getting a life.

We receive email notifications of new comments on discussion threads to which we are subscribed.  Threads sometimes come back to life that way when someone drops in and says something interesting, or in your case, exceptionally inane.  The way these technologically-enabled discussions wax and wane is sort of odd, I’ll grant you that.

The charm wore off that old, “Duh, you guys are just as fundie, LOL, and I’m the first one ever to think of it” thing a long time ago.  You drop in on our discussion and you think we’re the evangelistic ones?

Try reading some other posts, starting with the home page: this is a general-interest website.  Or just go on making broad generalizations about people you just met.  I bet you’re the life of any party.

Eric again;
You are your own brand of “fundies” all; fully convinced that all of your beliefs are right on, vigorously proselitizing for converts, mocking those who believe differently than you, etc.
Your right Swordsbane. God is a beautiful thing however this all happened. I observe that there exists loads of beauty in both arguments. Both sides are entirely too polarized.

Hmm, so if I’m enjoying a warm, sunny day and someone comes up to me and says “It’s probably midnight right now.” And I check the sun, look at a thermometer and take off my shades for a moment, then reply “You’re wrong.  It’s daytime.” I’m polorized because his argument left room for doubt and mine didn’t.

Evolution makes more sense.  Intelligent design isn’t science.  Those are not a polorized arguments.  They are facts.  I have yet to hear anything that comes remotely close to being evidence to the contrary.  Truth is not fair and it does not care if your feelings get hurt or respect you opinion.  It’s there whether you believe it or not.

And when you agree with me, agree with what I said, not what you want to think I meant.  I see beauty in the universe.  If you want to put Gods finger on the button of the Big Bang or even as the guy designing the button, then I won’t stop you, but don’t change the observable parts of the universe to control the argument.

You see validity in both arguments?  Do tell, but both sides can’t be right in this.  If what we see in nature is real, then it paints a picture that makes Creationism wrong.  If the observable data is wrong, then God fabricated the evidence that tells us Evolution is a rational theory.  This isn’t one of those ‘everyone is right’ debates.  Science says one thing and the creationists say “You are entirely wrong.” There’s no room for compromise in this.  One side is either completely right or completely wrong, and it was the creationists that made it that way.  They are basically saying “If it moves like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it must be a polar bear” If you make a statement like that, you have to have a better argument than “Well, the animal is white, and so are polar bears, so it must be a polar bear.” Sorry, I’m not only going to say “That’s wrong.” but also probably “That’s stupid” and maybe suggest professional help.  If you say that makes me polorized, then so be it, but my reaction is perfectly justified, just as it is when someone tries to use peanut butter to disprove evolution.  If you want to debate me, debate me, but don’t jump on me for being stubborn when I ridicule idiocy like that.

Consi said:

Ditto..............to.............what..............L J............s....a....i...d..............a.....b.....o.......v.......e.

I think Hell just froze over…

I’ll say it again: Evolution=theory,
I.D.=hypotheisis.

I.D is not a hypothesis, unless you know a way we can test it.

I’m just off to warn my parents their village is over run by polar bears.

Daltonboy/Eric, if it makes you feel better, you go right on ahead convincing yourself that our knowledge of the veracity of evolution constitutes a religion and makes us “fundies.” Just stay far, far away from public schools.

Eric again,
The fossil record shows the abrupt appearance of fully functional organisms with stasis until present or extinction. If you find a fossil you can only prove that something died. You can’t empirically test evolution either. It has never been observed. Some adaptation has been observed, but that shows nothing of the origin of life or the widespread speciation we observe. It’s obvious that we see adaptation in bird’s beaks and the like, but that does not come close to explaining how we get complex systems that contain numerous components. If any one of the components were removed, it would have a deleterious effect on the organism. Just because Johnny can jump does not merit a postulation that he could fly to the moon. If evolution were entirely true, you would see the craziest blurring of speciation in the fossil record and in the present. If it is the breaking of the laws of science you are worried about, evolution disregards laws of thermodynamics.
Evolutionists have been just as dishonest in their portrayal of their version of origins. The Homonid hoaxes, Eohippus displays that are still perpetrated on the public are a tiny sliver of some of the lies and deception. That may mean nothing to some of you because you have yet to understand that those scenarios and ideas have been sufficiently debunked by the scientific community along with embryology. Just remember that when you are up to here with the incredulity of many creationists. Some of your most revered evolutionists have outright lied about things to further their argument.
Remember, this thread is not a total loss. The sidebar has useful Google Ads about peanut butter recipes, peanut butter lawsuits, and peanut butter salmonella. Sure Chuck’s illustration is goofy to say the least but at least it’s not a total loss. Ha! Lighten up, Francis!
Jeez, I didn’t know some of you were so sensitive! I hope this reply doesn’t “shit” on anyone! Wow!
Eric

What makes me laugh is you atheist’s would take so much time on something you don’t believe. I wish you were all nileist, or born again, one of the two.
Instead your just closed minded lurch’s waiting for someone who actualy believes in something larger than him/herself to say anything so you will have something to talk about all weekend.

Only an educated person could say something so stupid, comes to mind. Also from Penn and Teller.

Make fun of The creator all you want, just remember that I made sure to tell you there was one. His name is YHWH and his son Jesus Christ offers even you redemption. Take or leave it, but we will all be judged. On that day I will tell the father you should let me in because I a m washed in the blood of the lamb, your son has saved me.

We should start an award for the first fundie who comes up with some original argument that we have never heard before.

JoshBlade:  I wish you were all nileist, or born again, one of the two.

As my dad would say, wish in one hand and crap in the other, and see which one adds up faster.

Make fun of The creator all you want, just remember that I made sure to tell you there was one. His name is YHWH and his son Jesus Christ offers even you redemption. Take or leave it, but we will all be judged. On that day I will tell the father you should let me in because I a m washed in the blood of the lamb, your son has saved me.

Next!

Was your dad a mathematician it’s not “adds up” it’s fills up. Secondly the reason it’s not a new argument is because I don’t worship a new God.

You will always be searching for your answers, personaly I think it’s sad. whether it’s the big bang evoloution or a combo.Perhaps you have not learned of the law of entrophy, evoloution is a lie. The word of God is truth the statistics proove it. The country began it’s decline when you people got the bible taken out of school. Sad part is your proud of that.

So continue to be hateful continue to do only what suits yourself, and in the end you will be weighed and as you are now you will be then, found wanting.

We should start an award for the first fundie who comes up with some original argument that we have never heard before.

We may have a winner, JulianP:

That may mean nothing to some of you because you have yet to understand that those scenarios and ideas have been sufficiently debunked by the scientific community along with embryology.

The scientific community has debunked embryology?  That’s a new one to me

Was your dad a mathematician it’s not “adds up” it’s fills up.

Nope, but he’s done remarkably well for himself, considering that he dropped out of high school at seventeen and later earned his G.E.D. At least his command of spelling and grammar is superior to yours.

Perhaps you have not learned of the law of entrophy, evoloution is a lie.

Next!

The word of God is truth the statistics proove it.

Oh? And what statistics would “proove” such a thing?

The country began it’s decline when you people got the bible taken out of school. Sad part is your proud of that.

Crimes rates have actually steadily decreased in this country in recent decades. Next!

So continue to be hateful continue to do only what suits yourself,

I’m not hateful at all. Stop projecting.

and in the end you will be weighed and as you are now you will be then, found wanting.

I’m sure you wish this to be the eventuality.

Blades. Please provide evidence of your God. Before you answer, I already have the Bible and the ‘Look around you at wonderful Creation’ angles covered.

and in the end you will be weighed and as you are now you will be then, found wanting.

Weighed? Heaven has weight requirements?

That’s just fucking weird, that is.....

Ah, nothing like the smell of Fundies in the evening…

I’m glad I’ve got a cold.

Josh: The word of God is truth the statistics prove it.

And this is proved where?

Weighed? Heaven has weight requirements?

No, I think this actually does have a church basis. Something along the lines of your sould is weighed against something (Egyptions believed something similar- they weighed the heart against a feather). St P does the tech stuff, and it will show if your soul is weighed down by sin.

law of entrophy

Is that some requirement to stuff and mount everything you kill?

Hussar- that feather stuff also comes up in the delightful Tom Robbins book Jitterbug Perfume.  Wren has the job of weighing souls against a feather.  When asked how she landed the job, she says her own soul wasn’t feather light, but feather bright.  We could use more feather-brightness around here.

Eric and Blades- seriously, we’ve heard all this stuff before.  Please go check out the archives here: do a search on “evolution”.  You are just repeating the standard Answers in Genesis and ID lines.  If you want to engage people who have some knowledge of science, do some science reading of your own.  TalkOrigins is a good place to start.

The fossil record shows the abrupt appearance of fully functional organisms with stasis until present or extinction. If you find a fossil you can only prove that something died. You can’t empirically test evolution either. It has never been observed. Some adaptation has been observed, but that shows nothing of the origin of life or the widespread speciation we observe. It’s obvious that we see adaptation in bird’s beaks and the like, but that does not come close to explaining how we get complex systems that contain numerous components. If any one of the components were removed, it would have a deleterious effect on the organism. Just because Johnny can jump does not merit a postulation that he could fly to the moon. If evolution were entirely true, you would see the craziest blurring of speciation in the fossil record and in the present. If it is the breaking of the laws of science you are worried about, evolution disregards laws of thermodynamics.
Evolutionists have been just as dishonest in their portrayal of their version of origins. The Homonid hoaxes, Eohippus displays that are still perpetrated on the public are a tiny sliver of some of the lies and deception. That may mean nothing to some of you because you have yet to understand that those scenarios and ideas have been sufficiently debunked by the scientific community along with embryology. Just remember that when you are up to here with the incredulity of many creationists. Some of your most revered evolutionists have outright lied about things to further their argument.

I see I should have been more specific.  Try debating using NEW arguments, not stuff that has already been debunked a long time ago.

Hoaxes and mistakes are the fault of specific people, not science, and if we want to get into a contest for who has made the most tragic “mistakes” or had the most frauds associated with it, religion will lose.  Attacking the scientists is not going to help debunk the science.  If someone got it wrong, then you should be able to show that regardless of the content of their character.  Interestingly enough, it was other scientists who uncovered those hoaxes, not religious people.

The fossil record is the record of organisms complex enough to have substantial skeletons or something for fossilization to take place.  Early life did not have those qualities, and fossilization is not a common occurence.  A lot of factors have to be right for a fossil to be formed, so the gaps we have in the record are huge, which is one of the reasons why evolution continues to be a THEORY, but it is so far the only theory that fits all the observable facts.  Creationism doesn’t.

The law of thermodynamics does not apply to COMPLEXITY in living organisms.  It applies to energy in a system.  You can’t get more energy out of a process than is in it without adding more.  f you use electricity to heat something up, then manage to return that heat to electricity at 100% efficiency, then you will only have the electricity you started with, no more.  What you’re referring to is entropy, the tendancy of everything to break down.  But in biology that relates to an organism dying, and has nothing to do with speciation or evolutionary changes.  The only thing that would apply from the law of thermodynamics is that as a whole, the planet’s ecosystem can’t have more energy than the energy it already has.... oh except heat from the earth.... oh and heat from the sun is always added too.  Organisms can use that new energy in any way they are built to use it.  If evolution is true, then there is no theoritical limit to how complex life can become… at least until the sun goes out.

The rest of your post is more “They’re all lying and you shouldn’t believe people just because they’re smart.”

Please.  If that’s the best you got, go home.  Do some research.  Tell us something we HAVEN’T heard before.

I suppose it would mess with your mind to say that ALL fossils are technically transitional fossils.  If you want to be technical, since evolution is still going on, all the traits you see in animals today might become something different at some later point.  We CALL them transitional when they seem to blur the lines we came up with that separate one trait from another, but a million years from now something we think is a trait in our own species might be considered transitional by scientists.  We’ve only been at this a short period of time.

Swordsbane,

Thanks for engageing in discussion. Someone else posted and derailed the others onto a name-calling and spelling critique trip. Probably because most who visit can’t come up with more argument than “evolution=fact ;I.D.=crap”. I’ve heard all of your arguments before as well. I can predict what an Evobot is going to say. Most are going to ape (no pun intended) what they have heard others say, not because they have examined the “evidence”.

In my mind the theory of evolution has enormous insurmountable problems, too, and I observe that many evolutionists aren’t being honest about it. I know it’s hard for you to take, but that stems from a preconceived philosophical bias. I don’t say that’s why you believe it. I don’t say that’s why all evolutionists believe it.  I observe that a great many people that believe that evolution explains everything haven’t studied origins to any valid extent either, which isn’t to say that I haven’t just because I don’t reached the same conclusions that you have. You don’t bad-mouth them. There are a vast number of people that believe evolution primarily because it takes God out of the equation.

I never said anywhere that “they are all lying and you should’nt believe people who are smart”.  And yes, if you insist in grading on a curve (it does take a lot of pressure off of evolutionists being accountable !) religion takes the cake in doing stupid things. Should I therefore accuse you of saying that all religious people are liars? There are many who want to engage in honest, heartfelt discussion. The only reason I brought up dishonesty of prominent evolutionists is because of the blanket attack of the integrity of religious people you see posted here frequently (to say the least) and that someone posted and pretended to care a great deal about what’s going on in public schools. Oh, and by the way, many of the lies and hoaxes are still in text books and publicly funded museums to this very day! Oh, and by the way, who cares! Religion has lied alot more! Oh, and by the way, I generally don’t say “Oh, and by the way” often.

You are right that both ideas cannot be right. Only time will tell which one is. As we well know, new ideas have a habit of shattering the status quo. And I am the one that is in the enviable position as far as that’s concerned. You seem smart, and you and others are fond of saying you’re smart. Tell me you are smart enough to have fire insurance on your house at least.

You would be fun to talk to about his. We could enjoy a warm, sunny day, discussing origins and the meaning of life (probably whether or not it actually has meaning!). I’ll bring smelling salts. You may faint when I don’t tell you, “It’s probably midnight right now!”.

Keep wearing your shades!

Eric

Okay, eric:

In my mind the theory of evolution has enormous insurmountable problems, too, and I observe that many evolutionists aren’t being honest about it.

Your evidence for dishonesty on the part of many evolutionists is?

There are a vast number of people that believe evolution primarily because it takes God out of the equation.

And your evidence for this vast number of people would be?  I don’t know the numbers, but my impression is that more people reluctantly give up God because evolution shows the Bible to be inaccurate.

Oh, and by the way, many of the lies and hoaxes are still in text books and publicly funded museums to this very day!

Evidence, please.

And in case you’re wondering, although I am not a scientist, I did take enough upper-division courses for a minor in paleontology, and I’ve kept up as much as possible with recent developments in the field.  So my conviction that the evolutionary picture of the world is far more accurate and plausible than the Biblical picture is based not only on websites, but also on hundreds of hours in the lab and in the field.  Where does your knowledge of evolution come from, pray tell?