Bravo! Nothing like a good rant to get the blood flowing.

Huzza! Huzza! Go, girl. Now if only those addressed would have the smarts to understand your rant. I am not too enthused that that is the case, but it was worth a try. 

Oooouch.  That’s gonna leave a bruise in the morning.  CG, you rock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b5suM7RqEc

Somebody has got to tell you about Jesus, right?
I know sometimes, people say to me Bob
How can you believe that stuff?
I was raised in a church
Either methodist, catholic, cowardice
Or whatever
But there is churches and there is churches
Unless you are in a Spirit filled church
You ain’t in no church at all
(That’s right)
It says that in the last days
God is going to pour
His Spirit out upon all flesh
And it’s happening right now

Are you ready, are you ready?
Are you ready, are you ready?

Are you ready to meet Jesus?
Are you where you ought to be?
Will He know you when He sees ya?
Or will He say depart from Me?

Are you ready, are you ready?
Am I ready? Am I ready?
Am I ready? I hope I’m ready

Am I ready to lay down my life for the brethren?
And to take up my cross?
Have I surrendered to the will of God?
Or am I still acting like the boss?

Am I ready? I hope I’m ready
Alright

Have you got some unfinished business?
Something holdin’ you back?
Are you thinking for yourself?
Or are you following the pack?

Are you ready? Are you ready?

Are you ready for the judgment?
For that terrible swift sword?
Are you ready for Armageddon?
Are you ready for the day of the Lord?

Are you ready? I hope you are ready

Oh I’m fucking ready Andy Rodriguez. I’m fucking ready to beat the ever living shit out of all the idiot fairy tale worshipers with their own Bibble (I believe the technical term is smite your ass). I’m ready to shit in your church, spirit filled or otherwise.  I’m ready to fuck your sister buddy, on the sacred altar, on an open bibble, then leave her crying (only if she’s at least 18 though, otherwise I’ll do your mother).

OK, that last one was uncalled for, off topic and totally misogynistic.  I don’t actually know your sister, and even if she was as stump dumb as her brother, that would be no reason to seduce her and then leave her emotionally wounded. I apologize to your sister.  Probably your mother too, I’m sure it’s not totally her fault how you turned out. In any event, you’d probably be more injured by me pissing in the sacramental wine than me fucking either your sister or mother and leaving them in a poor state of mind.

Anyway…I’m ready to filter the holly spirit through my kidneys, and then piss it out onto the holly feet of your precious jewish zombie god.  I’m ready to smear shit on his precious white robes, and spit in his eye. If he turns out to be real, I’m ready to take whatever the sadistic cosmic prick of a voyeuristic despotic asshole can give to me, all the while screaming “FUCK YOU!“; he’ll not get the satisfaction of me pleading and begging for mercy. I’d rather spend eternity rotting and burning and screaming than spend one second in the presence of that piece of shit god that your bibble depicts.

That goes for any other god that man puts forth without any shred of evidence. If god was real and cared about us, he’d do a whole fucking hell of a better job to make sure everyone knew than to give revelation to some camel fucking dirt worshipers out wandering around in the desert some thousands of years ago.  If the omnipotent ruler of the universe really wanted us to know him, we’d each be born with a fucking instruction manual and be given a formal introduction as soon as we were able to stop shitting ourselves.  At least, that’s what any rational being would do.

Are you ready to watch some Pat Condell? Also found on youtube...

Andy’s posting in the wrong thread for that kind of nonsense.

Andy’s posting in the wrong thread for that kind of nonsense.

Yeah, but nobody ever showed up for that party…

CubicalGrrl I could kiss you.  I am sick of tired at people sneering ‘intelligensia’ at people who don’t like the lowest common denominator bread and circusses that are dished out.

Chuck Missler or whatever his name is, actually has a PHD in physics. He was head of the US govt Missile program at one stage. Evolution is crap and I dont know about the other.
Check out this guys credentials and you will see he is no goose though.
The interview was dull though and his analogy dopey though?

Les.

Well, master’s in engineering, actually.  That’s a lot different from “PhD in Physics.“ And after working for TRW and Ford, he worked for a nonprofit think tank that produced white papers for the DOD.

Engineering ≠ biology, by the way.

This seems fitting:

He was head of the US govt Missile program at one stage.

He was a branch chief at Lowry AFB, which did training, no design work, and which never had any direct connection with any missile except the Titan I series (which began in 1962, about the time that Missler left I’m guessing since he was off at UCLA by ‘66.) I’ll note that the Titan I was a ballistic missile though, and as such was unguided by Air Force nomenclature unless it’s been significantly revised in the decades between. That means that Missler was basically writing training pamphlets as his significant posting at the now closed base, which is a far cry from “head of the US missile program.“

This is a really good example of how religious stories get inflated, by the way.  Wonder how many re-tellings it took for his training-manual career and later masters in engineering got inflated to “PhD in physics and head of the US missile program”.

Well, actually I was exaggerating the “training pamphlets” bit too. He claims an actual military career, and a desk job at that, in the Air Force. That really outlines what sort of duties he would have had, and they’re not much.

A real indication of his actual responsibilities though, which I have not found, would be his rank. Missler couldn’t have achieved that high of a rank since such things are inevitably matters of strict seniority.

Counting back from 1966, when Missler claims to have been working for Ford, we’ve got two years minimum for getting his Masters of Engineering and maybe two more years being generous with being fired/leaving very quickly from his jobs at TRW and a “non-profit think tank” (which he claims worked for the US intelligence community, but seems a little dicey since the rules for giving out government contracts to non-prof companies are screwed up enough that I can only assume that they’ve always been screwed up and no one ever wants to fix them.) That gives 1962 as when he’d have left the military, which coincidentally was the year the Titan I came to Lowry.

The Air Force Academy wasn’t established until 1954, so if Missler went to the Academy as he claimed he did then he had to have graduated no earlier than 1958. That’s only around four years of time between when he got his commission and got out of the Air Force. Obviously any “command” he got would be pretty damned limited.

It really doesn’t matter what his credentials are. Being well educated is no guarantee you’ll know what you’re talking about. Lots of very smart and well educated people fall buy into silly ideas and scams all the time.

Chuck Missler for President! Can we write in his name? He knows everything and follows the Bible - that is all that the current president exhibited for his qualifications. 

It really doesn’t matter what his credentials are. Being well educated is no guarantee you’ll know what you’re talking about. Lots of very smart and well educated people fall buy into silly ideas and scams all the time.

Since apparently at least someone *cough*Leslie*cough* thinks parading Missler’s inflated (if not false) credentials as meaningful should be convincing, I assert that debunking them is meaningful. Maybe especially important to debunk them on SEB, since Google loves SEB’s take on Missler. If a few minutes research on SEB by people who are waffling on Missler’s craziness based on his credentials are enough to turn people away from craziness of their own, then maybe it’s all for the good.

Besides, it’s fun to pwn people’s biographies. At least Missler wasn’t supposed to have been a SEAL team member.

At least Missler wasn’t supposed to have been a SEAL team member.

Shh!  That was Top Secret!!!

At least Missler wasn’t supposed to have been a SEAL team member.

He got Expelled.

Damn, I’ve missed you all!

So sorry to have been away so long, my friends. :-( I’ve been quite busy over the past 9 months or so… losing my house, getting a divorce, and moving back to where I spent my formative years (Orange County, CA). Wheeeeeee!

Perhaps it was God’s way of bringing me back into the fold (snicker), the high ranking on Google of this SEB entry regarding Chuck Missler. Y’see, I’m in search of as many articles debunking his bullshit and/or showing his lack of credibility in matters of science as I can find. Heaven help me, someone I grew up with and love dearly is convinced that this fucking hack can speak with authority about “creation” because he’s a “scientist!“ Ugh. Another promising intellect tragically destroyed by Calvary Chapel’s indoctrination; it breaks my heart.

My goal is to put together enough material that can be considered “unbiased” (that is, doesn’t come exclusively from atheist websites - no mean feat!), and get it in front of my boyfriend so he can see for himself that it’s not just my disdain for Christianity in general and the church Missler comes from (the bf’s church too, sadly) in particular, that drives me to urge him to reject irrational claims such as Missler’s “disproving” of Evolution.

To that end, feel free to spam me with whatever you might find!

Hugs,
Rox

OB!!  Welcome back!!! 

My goal is to put together enough material that can be considered “unbiased” (that is, doesn’t come exclusively from atheist websites - no mean feat!), and get it in front of my boyfriend so he can see for himself

That can be difficult if it’s just a matter of “who has the bigger credibility wang” because creationists dismiss out-of-hand anything that isn’t from a creationist.  It’s a tough nut to crack.

I suggest humor, in this case from a Jewish source, Lewis Black.

I suggest humor, in this case from a Jewish source, Lewis Black.

Indeed! I love Lewis, he’s so dead on about politics, religion, and everything!

In fact, I’ve been able to vicariously present my “arguments” to using videos by Lewis Black, George Carlin and even Pat Condell (imagine that?) among others, with a fair bit of success. I’m VERY fortunate in that the man deeply appreciates comedy, and his own sense of humor (like mine) is quite twisted. To his credit, he’s a good sport about it all, considering my off-handed blasphemy and mockery of most of his closely-held beliefs. But it’s nothing new to him, really, because I’ve always been fond of blasphemy and sacrilege as comedic devices. Shock value alone is worth it.

Hmmm… I just realized that the year he and I met (1974), we’d both just moved somewhere new and it was the first time going to (Catholic) church wasn’t such a priority to our parents. Minors, we still got dragged to the occasional Mass but we were already apostate. I refused to make my Confirmation earlier that year, and he’d refused to call the priests “Father.“ Hah!

We’ve agreed that neither of us necessarily wants to “convert” the other; and it’s a bit disconcerting to him that I know quite a bit more about his religion and Book than he, or his “brothers & sisters in Christ” can claim. He says it’s not his job to preach, just to “plant a seed.“ :gag: He tolerates my frequent eye-rolls at such cliches.

My primary goal is to get him to examine his RELIGION, its claims and doctrines (not his own “faith” per se) as critically as he does everything else (in everything but theism, he is SO like you, Les!), which means studying its history; including using “hostile” resources. How the hell can you form an opinion without looking at all sides of any issue?

I want to say: “C’mon! This fucking whackjob ENGINEER asserts that Peanut butter disproves Evolution, in the face of a century’s worth of scientific evidence in support of the theory - and you actually consider him a credible source?“ But a “neutral” rebuttal or two is far less likely to jeopardize my getting some nooky!

How the hell can you form an opinion without looking at all sides of any issue?

Yep: I see nothing wrong with considering all sides, including the uninformed ones.  But rational consideration includes weighing a position by the credibility of the one who holds it.  The consideration is incomplete without that information.

Just to put it in perspective, I’d give more credence to an engineer than to a biologist for an explanation of why a bridge fell down.  But Missler isn’t even an engineer; he has a degree in engineering, which is a very different thing.

OB: A couple of books that may help, and don’t appear to be hostile on the face of it: “The Lost Gospel, the Book of Q and Christian Origins,“ by Burton L. Mack (professor of New Testament at Claremont College) and “The Five Gospels,“ by The Jesus Seminar (a group of theology professors that speak, read and write the ancient languages). Both are available from Amazon in paper back. They are both scholarly attempts to find some sayings that may actually have been attributed to the “historical” Jesus. In the process, they subtly undermine the “infallibility” that so many fundies preach. Try “Q” first, if he has not done much reading or studying of the gospels.