If evolution took place, don’t you think that we would have creatures in between monkeys and humans right now.  I do.

We do have creatures between monkeys and people; or at least, descendants of mutual ancestors that are closer to us than monkeys are: the great apes.  But I suspect you were just lumping them in with the monkeys.  The forms transitional between our common ancestor with the chimps (our closest living relative) aren’t around any more because they died out- for whatever reason.  Most species do, sooner or later.  If you want to learn some more about how evolution works, TalkOrigins is a good place to start.

Also, the same testing that has been done for years to determine how old something is , also showed that Mount Saint Helens last erupted 1 000 000 years ago.  Well we know that to be wrong don’t we.

Potassium-argon testing is not accurate for recent events, for a number of technical reasons.  If you want a Christian, but non-Creationist explanation of dating methods, see here.  The problem in this case seems to be that “xenoliths”, that is, pieces of older rock mixed in with the newer, were included in the test.  Don’t take my word for it, but don’t take AnswersInGenesis’ word either.  Good luck with trying to debunk radiometric dating, though.

Now as a christian I do believe in creation.  You will never change my mind to that.  The bible states it and that is what I believe.  The truth will eventually come out.

The truth, at least as far as the age of the Earth and evolution goes, has already come out: the Earth is about 4.5 billion years old, the Universe about 13.7 billion years, and life is the result of evolution.

monkeys today are as modern as humans , we didn’t evolve from chimpanzees but humans and chimpanzees both evolved from a common ancestor.
the primates and the transitional forms are all over the fossil recored.
find me 1 fossil recored of humans and all primate animals at the same layer.
show 1 evidence that was presented by your jesus.

And I, as a creationist, believe that if evolution has happened, WHY ARE THERE ONLY PRIMATES AND HUMANS NOW? 

There is no curse in Entish, Elvish or the tongues of Men that would adequately describe how fucking retarded that statement is.

Jeff is too ignorant about what he’s trying to debate to bother trying to engage him. Besides, he’s already said his mind is made up and nothing will change it even if it is wrong.

Julian- I am going to steal that!

Dear Fundementalists. Please read our answers to you.  Your replies seem to consist of “You must be wrong because it is different to the bible”.  You have to show evidence for the accuracy of the bible- and the circular ‘because its the word of God’ does not actually mean anything.

Consider this.  I am the messiah.  A messiah would not lie to you. If I am the messiah then I can not be lieing. Ergo- I am the messiah.

Consider this.  I am the messiah.  A messiah would not lie to you. If I am the messiah then I can not be lieing. Ergo- I am the messiah.

You gotta watch that.  I know people who will read that and say “But God wouldn’t lie to us, so the Bible must be right.” and honestly look confused when you turned red and sputtered and had trouble breathing.

I think the word “Fundie” didn’t come from Fundamentalist.. It came from “fun and die” If they didn’t try to get Creationism taught in schools and make all elementary school children learn about how Christ is their savior, then I would happily ignore them…

...or maybe laugh and point…

LH - Go ahead.

People like Zilch and DOF sometimes make me feel ashamed of myself for not having more patience and resorting to swearing and insults instead of calmly addressing the fundie’s arguments. But I feel it’s a lost cause in most cases.

LH: Consider this.  I am the messiah.  A messiah would not lie to you. If I am the messiah then I can not be lieing. Ergo- I am the messiah.

I’m not sure that we actually need more circular logic, unless I get to be the messiah

Hey guys my great great great grand father’s is god , you have to blieve me , i have a spirtual evidence.
My grandpa said in his holy book dap-carp 33-7 “I am the great one that made all and you shall all paw down to my love and greatness or meet my hatred rath blaaaaaaaaaaaa”
34-2 “I shall come back in a tuna can to reward these who blindly followed my word, I am the great god who never lies, existed since forever and these are my holy words”
So my sweet beloved grand pa said he is god in his holy book dap-crap, that is the undeniable proof of his existence.
Dap-crap is my grand pa’s (god’s) words because duh god said so.
God->bible
Bible->god
halaloya to my great great great grand father
Atheists wake up before he eats you alive
(lose some weight first coz he is been on a diet for 2 billion years.

i have a PHD in theology from the university of bullshit so am a scientist and i welcome any one to debate against my holy great grand pa

I on the other hand do have evidence of my lineage.  One of my ancestors was Henry VIII favourite court musician, and played at the funeral of Henry VII.

Does Chuck have any evidence of any15th/16th century transitional ancestors?  If he can’t prove any we must take the view he doesn’t exist.

I am a Christian and would love nothing better than to argue with evolutionists, but I won’t. Its pointless. After all, according to evolution we are all accidents.  There is no wonderful design in the way nature works. And when its our time to die, there is nothing to look forward to. How depressing! We work all of lives for nothing?  We grow old and die.  All that we worked for goes to someone else.  If your beloved evolution THEORY is correct, then I have wasted my life believing in a God who isn’t there.  The joy and happiness I feel is only something I made myself feel.

But suppose Christians are correct and there is a GOD who created the universe and loves you so much he was willing to let his only Son be killed in our place. For our wrongs. And all you have to do is believe in Him and you will have eternal life with Him in his love.  But suppose you don’t accept this incredible gift and wind up in hell, in complete darkness separated from him and everyone you ever knew.

If I am wrong, I am humiliated.  But if you are wrong, it could be a whole lot worse.  Think about it…

I am a Christian and would love nothing better than to argue with evolutionists, but I won’t.

A wise move, since evolution is not going to go away- it’s a fact.

Its pointless. After all, according to evolution we are all accidents.

No, according to the typical fundamentalist misunderstanding of evolution, we are all accidents.  Check out TalkOrigins if you want to talk about what evolution means.  Briefly: mutations are accidents, Natural Selection is anything but an accident.

There is no wonderful design in the way nature works.

There’s wonderful design (and some not so wonderful design) everywhere you look in Nature- there’s just no Designer, other than Natural Selection.

And when its our time to die, there is nothing to look forward to. How depressing!

Speak for yourself.  I’m quite happy to live my one life as well and fully as I can.  I don’t need Pie in the Sky when you Die to keep me going.

We work all of lives for nothing?  We grow old and die.  All that we worked for goes to someone else.

Again, speak for yourself.  I love my work, and if I can pass anything on to my kids, and the rest of the world, then I am fulfilled.

If your beloved evolution THEORY is correct, then I have wasted my life believing in a God who isn’t there.  The joy and happiness I feel is only something I made myself feel.

Far be it from me to judge whether you have wasted your life believing in God- if it brings you joy and happiness, then more power to you.  Just keep your God out of public school science classes, out of other people’s bedrooms, and don’t kill in His name, and we’re hunky-dory.

But suppose you don’t accept this incredible gift and wind up in hell, in complete darkness separated from him and everyone you ever knew.

I don’t know for sure, but I suspect it won’t be completely dark in Hell- the flames will cast some light, and besides, if it’s completely dark, then the saved Christians in Heaven won’t be able to watch us on their Hellevision sets.  This would deprive them of a pleasure easily provided, and I’m with Aquinas: God will certainly want you guys to enjoy our writhing and burning, to make the harps and clouds even more attractive by comparison.

If I am wrong, I am humiliated.  But if you are wrong, it could be a whole lot worse.  Think about it…

Oh, believe me, I’ve thought about it.  Ever heard of Pascal’s Wager? If you are wrong, you are not even humiliated- you’re just dead with the rest of us.  So if your God makes you feel better, go for it.  But consider all the things you could have done in the time you spent worshiping God.  Not only that, but what if you die, and Allah tosses you with the rest of the kafir into jahannam?  Or Zeus puts you on the ferry to Hades?  Won’t you feel silly then?

The fundie spoketh thus:

I am a Christian and would love nothing better than to argue with evolutionists, but I won’t. Its pointless.

...and then goes on to argue with evolutionists.

There is no wonderful design in the way nature works. And when its our time to die, there is nothing to look forward to. How depressing! We work all of lives for nothing?  We grow old and die.  All that we worked for goes to someone else.  If your beloved evolution THEORY is correct, then I have wasted my life believing in a God who isn’t there.  The joy and happiness I feel is only something I made myself feel.

Yes, we know you delusional fucktards only get joy and happiness by contemplation your fictional sky-daddy. Some of us on the other hand, find joy and happiness from something we like to call our lives.

If I am wrong, I am humiliated.  But if you are wrong, it could be a whole lot worse.  Think about it…

That’s Pascal’s Wager. There are so many things wrong with it. For starters theres the fact that...... Oh fuck it. There’s no point.

I am a Christian and would love nothing better than to argue with evolutionists, but I won’t. Its pointless. After all, according to evolution we are all accidents.  There is no wonderful design in the way nature works. And when its our time to die, there is nothing to look forward to. How depressing! We work all of lives for nothing?  We grow old and die.  All that we worked for goes to someone else.  If your beloved evolution THEORY is correct, then I have wasted my life believing in a God who isn’t there.  The joy and happiness I feel is only something I made myself feel.

Hey hey! You figured it out! The meaning you give your life is really the only meaning it has.  But since you are not arguing, I guess you’ve already conceded that point. Basing your reality off the need to feel good ("How depressing") is sad, but it really is just you assigning your own meaning when you say all that stuff about Big Daddy Jehovah and his kid Jesus and their Great Plan. The problem arises when you attempt to force others to hold your own world view and insist at the top of your lungs that yours is the correct version. I mean, if you want to live a delusion, more power to ya, just don’t try to change reality to conform to it. Aside from the fact that reality just ain’t gonna budge any time soon, do you really think that believing in something makes it so?

But suppose Christians are correct and there is a GOD who created the universe and loves you so much he was willing to let his only Son be killed in our place. For our wrongs. And all you have to do is believe in Him and you will have eternal life with Him in his love.  But suppose you don’t accept this incredible gift and wind up in hell, in complete darkness separated from him and everyone you ever knew.

If I am wrong, I am humiliated.  But if you are wrong, it could be a whole lot worse.  Think about it…

Gee, what if we’re both wrong?  What if the Hindus or Buddhists, or (gasp!) Muslims are right? My lack of belief and your clinging to Jesus aren’t gonna do either of us a lick of good then are they?  I mean, if you’re right I burn in hell, if I’m right we all just die, but if they’re right, we both get the big bad afterlife.  Think about it…

I think I’m gonna start a blog called “I Already Fucking Know Your Stupid Jesus Bullshit”. On IAFKYSJB, I’ll just run Christianbaiting entries. However, the true purpose will be to see how many Christians come to the site, see the title, and still proceed to babble on about the “Good News”. I bet the numbers will be quite high. I wonder if maybe I can get some sort of revenue from it?  Hmm....

Gee, Russ.  You opened a whole can there.

Look, far be it for me to say that you wasted your life, but if your god is going to have such wonky rules, I don’t think I’d like his version of heaven anyway.  For me, it’s not about the likelihood of God existing.  There are plenty of human beings that have lived since Jesus who suffered longer and more severely than he did, and they did so apparently pointlessly, since I don’t see them written up in bible stories or added to the trinity or made into saints even though some of them were devout Christians and some even died BECAUSE of their faith, just like Jesus.  If Jesus’ sufferings bought humanity forgiveness, then God still owes the rest of us a few things.

If your God can’t be satisfied with me trying to live my life with as much compassion and honor and trying to leave this world better than I found it, if he HAS to have me “accept” him as anything more than someone with some good ideas (and some really bad ones, kinda like the rest of us actually) then he doesn’t DESERVE my worship.

Yeah, I said it… God has to DESERVE what he gets, and no creating the universe and killing his own son aren’t doing it for me.  It will take less convincing for me to accept that God exists and that everything in the Bible is true than it would take to convince me that he deserves our worship.  I’ve read the Bible.  It tells that God did some pretty awful things to people and there has never been an adequate explanation for why he should be seen as a good deity with those crimes on his record.  The argument boils down to “God has a plan” Hitler had a plan too, you know.

Stop preaching.  Stop trying to convince people that God is really out there.  Even the Bible teaches that the message is more important than the messenger.  What you’re trying to get me to accept is more important than WHO, and if you can’t convince me to accept it without telling me “It’s what God wants.” or that it will either get me into Heaven or keep me out of Hell, then I can’t imagine you’re going to convince anyone, and you shouldn’t be surprised when it doesn’t work.

Besides, have you ever stopped to think that the world might be a better place if people weren’t so concerned about what would happen to them in the next life and instead spent their time and effort improving this one?

Besides, have you ever stopped to think that the world might be a better place if people weren’t so concerned about what would happen to them in the next life and instead spent their time and effort improving this one?

A Jewish friend of mine describes her faith in exactly that way.  Yes, she believes in God but she is too busy with her life and good works to worry about the details.

hey zlich your words moved me man , i gara spend more time with my family fuck the money if i wont have the time to spend it.

Russ- before I post a long reply as to why your post is in error, are you just another drive by, or are you actually going to read what I type, so I’m not wasting my time.  Oh, and please make sure you know what a scientific theory actually is- it is NOT a guess, is is a accurate model of what we know, capable of accurately predicting the as yet unknown.

If you think otherwise, please show how Pythagorous’ theorum is wrong.

I have a load more questions if you are a genuine visitor.

Actually..in a simplified way,this Chuck guy is right.Like it or not.

You keep believing that, Sammy, and I’ll have a bridge to sell you. Cheap.

sammy obviously both you and the peanut dude hold alot of ignorance, have you ever read about autocatalysis’s or volcanic abiogenesis or the boble theory
energy + matter = ife under very stricked conditions of enviroment, weather , pressure , time and sphere.
diamonds are chunks of carbon (coal) that changed its form because of the high pressure of being buried deep in earth and the high heat from volcanic lava then its carried by volcanic activities to the surface , says who , says the diamond theory which is backed with evidence , yet we cant in the labs apply the same conditions to make diamonds but that doesn’t mean if an ignorant person like you heats coal in his oven and apply pressure with 2 trays and the coal doesn’t turn into diamonds that the diamonds theory is wrong.

Damn! That’s why I keep getting this black powder all over my oven. 

looooooooooooooooool

Pascal was pretty upset.

After all, according to evolution we are all accidents.  There is no wonderful design in the way nature works. And when its our time to die, there is nothing to look forward to. How depressing! We work all of lives for nothing?  We grow old and die.  All that we worked for goes to someone else.  If your beloved evolution THEORY is correct, then I have wasted my life believing in a God who isn’t there.  The joy and happiness I feel is only something I made myself feel.

Yep, that about sums it up.  Except I don’t find it depressing.  Then again, I don’t have to lie to myself myself about being God’s pet Biology project to feel any sense of self-worth.  I’m sorry you do.

Life is what you make it.  A conscious choice.  Every friggin’ day.  Grow up, get over yourself and and get used to it.

That goes for you, too Sammy.  And, by the bye, if you’re too emeffin’ ignorant to know the difference between abiogenesis and evolution, you either need to get at least a B in Biology, or STFU about it.  Until then, you’re not competent to have an opinion.  Otherwise, by your standards of “education,” I can call myself a minister and make up all sorts of stuff about what God and Jesus “really” want, and nobody can contradict me. 

Why?  Because YOU just lowered the “education” bar so far that you had to dig a trench for it.  See, that’s what happens when you declare war on the educated classes--sneering at the “elitism” of anybody who can read or reason beyond a fifth grade level.  In case you’re too young to remember (or too d--ned lazy to open a History book) China did that in the 60s and 70s did that under Mao’s flavor of Communism.  Doing the same thing under the banner of Jesus is no less heinous.  Lying with good intention is still lying.  And by “lying” I also mean not bothering to crack an honest-to-Pete textbook because you can’t bother your brain with an established scientific principle that that has withstood a hundred and fifty friggin’ years of Bible-banging moron. 

In short, anyone who thinks that they’re going to undermine an ever-accumulating pile of empirical data had better pack more than just lunch, cuz they’re gonna be a weeeeee bit late for dinner.

But more to the point, the most glaring indicator of Creationists’ retarded (nonexistent) logic skills is simply the fact that they assume that if they were somehow able to “disprove” evolution, Genesis would “win.” by default.  If you could be bothered to take a logic class, three weeks would show you where the basic premise of that (cough)logic(cough) is completely bogus.

I usually hate “slippery slope” arguments, but I don’t have to look back any further than my own lifetime to see what anti-intellectualism like this will bring.  And that’s just what Creationism is.  End of story.  There are no “facts” to back it up.  Merely wishful thinking and a self-centered fairy tale of our species’ space in this planet’s history.  It is no more science than your horoscope.  Even Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster have more tangible “documentation” than Genesis.  But do you believe in those?

Normally, I couldn’t care less what fairy tales get people through the cold, dark nights.  But people like you, Sammy, have come close to trashing this nation by dint of insisting that Intelligent Design not be laughed out of the classrooms of this nation.  Your ilk has repeatedly elected Senators who can’t grasp the internet except as a “series of tubes.” And you’ve put twelve-o-clock flashers in charge of billions of dollars and our fundamental rights as human beings.  You let a guy who asked “Is our children learning?” hand down yet another round of unfunded mandates to leave our children even further behind.

All because you can’t tell the difference between dogma and reality. 

The US’s technical leadership is already pretty shaky--perhaps gone for good--simply because there’s more money to be made in something as worthless as investment banking than there is in inventing new things or finding better ways of doing the thing we do now.  So when you’re stuck in a cubicle twenty years from now, trying to hide from the next “rightsizing,” Sammy, congratulate yourself for helping to bring that fate on all of us who would otherwise be doing useful things with our forty-plus hours a week.  All because @$$#@+$ like you had to dumb down any science that challenged your petty little Bible.

But in the meantime, please just learn a little bit about biology before you go spouting off about how a completely specious argument “makes sense.” Perhaps to someone who wants to be lied to, who is too afraid to think for himself.  For Pete’s sake, stop foisting your ignorance upon the rest of us by repeating lies that can be debunked with less than a semesters’ worth of schooling.