Don: I work at it, to improve myself, as in my line of work no telling what will be thrown at me.

Don, mate, what is your line of work?

Lucky said: I bet you still pull the wings off flies and tell little kids there’s no Santa too, you bubble-burster.

I don’t see too many flies around here, do moths count?  I have been SO tempted to tell certain kids that Santa doesn’t exist.  I am SOOOO NOT a kid’s person.  I have a big grey-white beard and now is the season that when kids see me they think that they have found Santa.

IDM, the little bastards just have no idea that if it wasn’t for the fact that you’re such a sensitive gay homo sapien man they’d be bombed with truth and logic.
Lucky bastards. 

Lucky; I really wish that I was evil enough to tell the little bastards that I know that they have been praying to jesus, and that santa doesn’t believe in jesus.  They have to choose between santa or jesus and that they have to forget that they have even heard of jesus if they want to EVER see any more presents from santa.  And maybe for Don’s benefit, tht mssg shld be tttd nt th lttl bstrds’ frhds—n mrrr mg.

Looks like Don stayed up later than I did. I’ll let those comments slide for now and just add in the automated process if he continues to post without actually acting on the challenge.

Don writes…

Les, I did that, go back and look, but your blatant denial, goes NO WHERE.

No you didn’t. You talked a lot of talk. I want you to walk the walk. File a lawsuit. Successfully prosecute someone. Make it me if you want. For all you know I have a big tattoo that says DON IS AN IGNORANT FUCK WHO’S BRAINS ARE IN HIS ASS on my forearm where everyone can see it. Sue me. Prove yourself right.

You can’t and you know it.

You need to show, give some indication, where you do not under stand what I posted.  You need to give me something to work on, but your over all denial of my every word does not cut it.

I understand what you posted, but I don’t give a shit about it. I want to see you actually prove it by taking action. You seem to be confident you’re right so put up or shut up.

Don: So cover your filthy art, or pay the price.

Bet me.

Les took you up on this challenge. Yet you havenot responded with actions sofar. So to quote Les:

Put up or shut up.

Les- If it was me I’d be prepared to let him just link or paste the law that makes tattooing illegal, and show that it is still current. If he has to actually bring a prosecution it will annoy our need for immediate gratification.

SO… HERE IS MY PROPOSED CHALLENGE.

Don

You will cite the law that makes it illegal for a person of majority in that jurisdiction to receive a tattoo voluntarily.  You supply a way that a member of the public can, without recourse to legal fees, easily find that statute; e.g. State library, link to a website maintained by that government.

The state in question must be a recognised so-called ‘liberal western democracy’.  E.g The USA, the E.U. Australia, New Zealand, plus (given their ongoing democracy) Japan, South Korea etc.  Where these are made up of member states (such as the EU) any individual nation state will qualify.  Where there is a Federal System (USA) or states with some sort of self governance (Australia) individual federal states etc will do.  Smaller jurisdictions/local ordnances etc will not be acceptable.

The law must not rely on the tattoo being given to a minor, mentally incompetent or someone incapacitated either temporary (drunk, high etc) or permanently.  It is understood that there is an age of majority, before which the individual can not be thought to make reasonable decisions in all cases and /or people that need protecting from themselves.  The law must ban compos-mentis adults.

The law must not rely on the shock value of the design of the tattoo.  Is the tattoo acceptable on, say a T-shirt or billboard?  For instance in France the Nazi Swastika is banned, as is Nazi regalia.  You may not support your ban on tattoos in France relying on the fact the tattoo is a swastika.  The tattoo must be covered by appropriate hate speech laws- i.e. a tattoo designed to cause a breach of the peace would not show proof of your cause.

The plaint may not rely on the health and safety aspects of a particular shop. I am looking for a law that “bans beef”, not “bans rotten meat”.

The defining test cases are:

Could Les walk into a tattoo shop in that Jurisdiction and receive a tattoo of a rose (the flower) 1 inch wide and 2 inches high, and be prosecuted.

If Les received that tattoo legally in the UK could he be prosecuted for entering that Jurisdiction with the tattoo on display?

If Les received that tattoo legally in the UK could he be prosecuted for entering that Jurisdiction with the tattoo even if not on display (i.e. under a sweater that did not let the tattoo be seen)?

Don. You will not post any opinion as fact. You must show a law has been broken by an adult receiving a tattoo.  Your personal opinion of tattoos is no longer germane to this discussion- we know you are anti-tat.

Furthermore we expect honesty. No setting up mirror sites etc edited to prove your point. Further more if the law is antiquated/difficult to enforce we expect you to cough to it (‘own up’ for those who don’t watch Brit cop shows).  For instance it is illegal to give or receive presents on Christmas Day in the UK (an old Victorian law that no one ever got around to repealing), but there is no chance of successfully bringing a criminal prosecution.

For his part Les will not interfere with any post by Don that meets this challenge. No cheap shots if he loses.  He may take such action as is needed for ‘good-housekeeping’ of the site- i.e. closing tags.

Les- Are these rules acceptable?

Don, I just want to know what triggered this obsessive hatred of tattoos; I mean, it’s not like it’s an important issue or anything. Much as your fanatical rants, dire grammar and embarrassing spelling have brightened these cold winter nights, it still seems a tad scary to get so spittle-spraying incensed about something so relatively inconsequential.

However, if neither storm, snow, earthquake or plague of boils will stop you in your quest, I’d just like to add my weight to all the other voices saying: “Don, put up or shut up” To which I’d add “and fuck off”. You’re making yourself look foolish: for the sake of any dignity you may have left, bring this to an end.

Les said:

No you didn’t. You talked a lot of talk. I want you to walk the walk. File a lawsuit. Successfully prosecute someone. Make it me if you want. For all you know I have a big tattoo that says DON IS AN IGNORANT FUCK WHO’S BRAINS ARE IN HIS ASS on my forearm where everyone can see it. Sue me. Prove yourself right.
You can’t and you know it.

Don:

Les you put out a challenge that I never agreed to.  In addition, if I had sued, 95% of the time civil suits are settled out of court with the stipulation of confidentiality, of what there are legal recourses of breaking that confidentiality.

You are just out of line Les, here is the original challenge that you maliciously changed:

I Don said:

“So cover your filthy art, or pay the price.
Bet me. “

To what Les responded:

“I’ll take that bet, Don. Put up or shut up.”

To say again the statement I made that you challenged:

Don:

“So cover your filthy art, or pay the price.
Bet me.”

To what you, Les, responded:

“I’ll take that bet, Don. Put up or shut up.”

Ok, so I have put, and I put and I put up, AS TO the challenge, and have you contested even one point? However, you did try to reset the terms of what you are busted.

You do not reset the rules and then call yourself a winner Les.

To Last_Hussar:

Don:

I live in the jurisdiction of the USA and the state of Oregon, NOT France, so my focus will be in the USA. If that is a problem, perhaps I will study French laws, but you made an interesting point.

My reference is to the challenge that I set out. You said, in France the Nazi Swastika is unilaterally banned? (correct me if I’m wrong) If so, you made my point, internationally. The Nazi Swastika is considered filthy art.

In the USA, we have two legal systems, one of civil action (person to person) called Tort, and one of the State, or Federal, enforcing regulations, policy, and criminal.

In Tort, that is valid legal action, person to person, I can bring suit, in short, if I have been damaged mentally and/or physically as fact, and to uphold social standards of the common good.

What is not covered under statutes (State or Federal) can be covered under Tort law. YES, if a person sticks their filthy Nazi Swastika tattoo in my face, I have do have legal recourses, no doubt about it.

However, even more so, a person can be influential to ban gross language, gross symbols, that are placed on human skin or not.

For example: A sharp letter to an employer that allowed a cashier to display a Nazi Swastika on their arm or forehead; even the threat of suit, must less loss of patronage, can be very effective. 

All I have to show is what I said is correct, NOT what Les and other want to change what I said.

What is gross language and symbols?  That is what Torts are for, and a court of law, and individual influences to make corrections.

To meet the challenge, all I have to show is one situation, legal or not, that would cause a person to cover their tattoos, and if it is covered once, it can be covered twice.

I read your post, Last_Hussar, you made some points of my general interest. 

Though you are looking for a state or federal statute against tattooing, you totally neglected Tort law, that if not equal, is of greater value than statute, as the state can be convicted as a tortfeasor.

Don

Silvermute said:

I’d just like to add my weight to all the other voices saying: “Don, put up or shut up” To which I’d add “and fuck off”.

Don:

You and others would not know if I “put up” or not. You act, by your words, as if your opinion is the only one around, and if a person does not hit your immature, and ignorant, hot buttons they must be rejected.

I am here to tell you, and others, YOU are wrong, on the subject of tattoos. I do not have to accept your cultic standards of barbarisms, and I have legal backing.

In addition, here is your defense, just like a SEB cultic theist, you attack the person, demolish the contrary post literally, and I am to ask what is the difference between this set of ignorant bipeds and another?

Tattooing may be the object, all is well and good; however, no doubt, you have been exposed to legal language, constitutions, laws, Torts, and statutes, that you would have never imagined, nor even considered. On this point, I win, again. You got educated.

I strive to look at the big picture as “strategy” and never neglect “tactics”, but you can only relate to your ignorant self.

You have no idea what is socialization, and apparently, by your post, you could care less.

Why don’t you give me a rendition of the history of humans disfiguring of other humans; then we will have something to talk about.

Don

Good god, Don. Why don’t you go eat some turkey or something?

And to Les, I have this to say, before you shut me the F up.

On a scale of one to ten, ten being the most tolerant, I would rate you a 6. Better than most, but not as good as some. At least you make a stand, though erred, and you are not wish washy.

I do thank you Les, and I have said it long before this, thank you for a place for me to post, though temporary. To me, you have NO idea what freedom of speech means, much less the pleasure it brings, and some times, that is all I have.

Such a power of freedom it is, as the human creature will never say die, in words, from untold ages past to now, so why do you expect less from me?

Of every furor that you endorse tattooing, I can show the contrary, but more than my opinion, but by the rule of tort and laws; Laws that gives backing to torts, with “kick ass” authority.

I never doubted your ability to control your board, never a contest of mine, but I do hold to intellectual honesty, as without intellectual honesty, I hardly have anything, and learning is on going.

Now, I fully expect a barge of insults, degrading remarks, and rejections. However, I will stand my ground, until my voice is dead on this board. In addition, I will live again on an other board. The loss is not mine but yours.

Don

I will stand my ground, until my voice is dead on this board. In addition, I will live again on an other board. The loss is not mine but yours.

That’s giving yourself a little much credit, Don. I won’t miss out, and I’m sure others feel the same. What I don’t understand is why, if you feel the need to write for your own benefit, you simply don’t start your own blog using blogger or something.

There you can rant about law and whatever else you want. You might even get a crowd (although, to be honest, it’s doubtful that crowd will adore you).

Some people like to think that if I dislike your tattoo (I dislike all tattoos), that means I dislike the person. NO, not hardly, nor do I recommend tattoo removal, as that is your choice, as it is your choice to get the tattoo in first place, and there are consiquences.

I showed the option of not being tattooed. I showed laws, regulations, personal authority, and legal authority as torts, to reject tattooing. 

I showed the negative consequences of being tattooed, as enforced by others, as is the Pak Man gross art on a person’s ass provided by Les; all of what a non-tattooed person does NOT have to deal with.

I gave legal backing to those that reject the tattoo cultic influence, and deviant behavior.

I also took on a cultic closed mined ignorant sect of bipeds that loves to disfigure the natural human body, I fight hard, and I am not finished yet.

I stand proud in my post, in my efforts, and I am true to my intellect, and learning is on going. To disfigure and mark up the human body is wrong, and I do not stand-alone, by any means or shape. The difference with me is, I do not pander to what is objectionable to natural knowledge; that to hurt ones self by sacrificing their body to word art (tattooing) is inherently wrong.

Sorry, I Don, I am not a barbarian that thinks knocking out of a ladies front teeth, as in Africa, is a sign of beauty, nor clipping of the clit of ladies to make them marriageable, nor to circumcision to males to satisfy a puke god, nor to ink dumped all over the body in some form is any kind of civilization. Such acts of self-mutilations are nothing but gross savagery. Just total disrespect to the human body I cannot tolerate.

Therefore, as needed, I will see you in court, my friend, and may the best argument win.

I have all ready suffered the religious dark ages of a thousand years, so I can suffer you also.

Don

Les so well spoke:

“I understand what you posted, but I don’t give a shit about it.”

Don:

So typical of retarded bipeds that should “know better”. So, how do I combat this total rejection of Les, his close mind, as if I did post to Les’s made up argument, that is insanity, I could every make my case!

He already said, makes no mater what you say Don, “I don’t give a shit about it.”

There is more to learn here other than not getting tattooed. A real lesson in human nature, of what, if you claim being a human, you are NOT exempt. So use intellect over the animal.

However, no MATTER, if a prophet or cultic leader says it’s OK to be tattooed, you do have recourses.

These recourses can be bloody painful to opposition, figuratively speaking.  Therefore, stand your ground and do not be influenced by cultic leaders.

Study and learn, as NO one can fault me on this.

Don

Contrary to your assuring, Patness, admiration is NOT my, Don’s, endeavors.

I stand by the rule of USA law (that includes Torts), I work at it, as in Law (in general) encompasses to date, the finality of human justice, survival, though I will admit laws are complicated.

In law, it is inevitable to curtail, in some perspective, a violation human rights. So the battle continues.

Perhaps I read too much human history for my own good.  I have been accused of such, but none the less, humans must organize themselves, as that is our only means of survival, plus intellect, from time past to now. That includes, IF, or not, you want to disfigure yourself with tattoos.

YOU see, in the original challenge by Les, all I needed to show was actions by an other to convince, coerce, to cover that tattoo. Such an easy task, but without legitimate authority, other than opinion… (fill in the blank).

So, what legal action can you take to force me to get a tattoo?  There are NOT ANY, nor torts, other than malicious actions that are not recognized by the authority of the land.

You are clearly at a disadvantage if you are tattooed, and you try to force your will by influence or other wise to be disfigured; not in my life time.

I stand against you.

Don

In addition, even further more Les, correct me if I am wrong, you do NOT have a tattoo and you expressed reservations of getting one. Is this not correct!

And you condemn me!

Therefore, I can clearly say, it is not the facts you are concerned with, but rather my personality, and my skills to express myself.

I love you also Les, in spite of yourself, but that does not mean we will exchange spit in the shower.

Don

Don,

As to your posting, I want to try and help you out with just one small aspect of it.  Please try this when you want to quote what somebody said.  Go to bottom of the page to the box where you will type in your entry.  Directly above that box are several symbols beginning with [ b ].  The fourth one over is a quote button.  Click it.

When you push the quote button you will see this [ quote][ /quote] Copy what you want quote from the person by going to what they typed and placing the cursor at the beginning of that section.  Next, left click your mouse and highlight the section want to quote.  Unclick your mouse.  Review the highlighted material to make sure that is what you want to quote.  Then, use your right click button. There will be options that appear; choose “copy.”

Then move your cursor in between the [ quote] [ /quote] and then right click again.  Choose the paste option.

When you are finished and you hit submit, the material from whomever you are quoting will appear in a box like this:

I stand against you.

You can then type what you want to say in response right underneath it.

Please show me that you can do this.  Please.  It will be one less thing that people can make fun of you about.

Please show me that you can do this.  Please.  It will be one less thing that people can make fun of you about.

Among many.

Don, don’t stand by your Intellect. It’s lying to you, and I think it might have been cheating on you with a bong. If you stand by your intellect, at least have the foresight to get testing, because wherever it’s been ... it just isn’t your pretty princess any longer.

I’m not preaching a god, nor governments, and if you knew torts, what advantages it brings in our USA country, date and time, from our history, you would be simply be marveled, even empowered. 

However, you have to do your own homework, and not look to me.

Tattoos, Yeah or Na, are just one example to bring authority, with power, to the common person. Yeah or Na, and what is your backing? What is your source, and by what authority! So let us talk about police powers, trial by jury.

an example:

Correct me; there are NO laws against bank robbery, only the consequences if you do it.  These laws show plenty of brutal consequences against bank robbery, I do not argue. I am staying within the law, but I have to know what the law is right?

Therefore, YOU, as a free individual, with power, do NOT have to disfigure your body to be accepted, to be loved by your own kind. What one cult rejects an other will accept, and above all means, honor your own person, honor your own body, honor your own human life, as human skin is NOT paper.

Don

MisterMook said:

Don, don’t stand by your Intellect. It’s lying to you, and I think it might have been cheating on you with a bong. If you stand by your intellect, at least have the foresight to get testing, because wherever it’s been ... it just isn’t your pretty princess any longer.

Don:

MisterMook, are you brain dead and you want others to be the same.

Look at what you said:

Don, do not stand by your Intellect. It’s lying to you..blah, blah, blah

Well I have news for you; your definition of sanity FAILS because you are ignorant. Sanity does NOT disfigure their own human body, NOR justifies it to others!

Now by what standard do you make your assertions! Speak up young man, or go back to school. Learn to respect yourself, learn you are a FREE person, and take power in that.

I might as well ask…. How far can a frog hop?

I have heard your BS from Christian BS cult leaders, so you must doubt yourself, OK FUCK YOU.

You suckered a few to your nonsense, to your stupidity, but not I any longer. I will see you pay, you saying ignorance is supreme, you toad!

Don

Don, get a life. You have made you’re point about not liking tattoos. That someone else likes them is not you’re business. There is nothing you can do to stop a sane adult from getting one. And if that person wants to flaunt his tattoo, so be it. And again, there is nothing (legally) you can do about it. If you think you can, then show us. That is all we want. So put up or shut up.

Consigliere wrote:

See above,

Don:

Is this a valid procedure with you? Is this a pivot point, where no other means of clarification, to express ones self, is accepted?

When I review post, I want to know clarity, unquestionable reference, and a response that took some thought, even if silly (as I’m never in fault of that)

OK then, Consigliere, you made a point. Give me time, study, and practice, I can conform to the rules of understandability.

Don

To Greebo from Don, I will deal with your ignorance of the conversation later.

But in no wise, can you covert me to your stupidity.

Self mutilations is wrong, in any form, self disfiguring is a slam to human intellect, and perhaps a failure on my part as I should have spoken up sooner.

Well, I speak up now, and I respect all the controversy due me.

However, not one of you has given justifications to mutilate the human body, not one of you.

I have more authority to say I should “NOT” mutilate the human body than you have to say anyone should!

Where is your BRAIN, I speeck as not to scar yourself for life, and I get an argument!!, what a bunch of fucking retards!~

Don

However, not one of you has given justifications to mutilate the human body, not one of you.

Satisfying a desire in a free country is quite enough for some people, Don.
You may not agree with it but that’s your right, too.

I have more authority to say I should “NOT” mutilate the human body than you have to say anyone should!

I haven’t seen anyone here saying that anybody should tattoo.
But anyway, what gives you the right to say who should do what, Don?
Not one of us here is your slave or puppet.
Try taking should, ought and must from your vocabulary.
You’ll find life flows much easier when you don’t judge others.
I find it’s much less stressful if I am aware of what I’m doing in that regard.
Buddha (paraphrased): All unhappiness is caused by ignorance (of the desire for different circumstances).