Sexy;  Thanks.  The tattooist who did it is a great artist.

Don: You can not force a person to get tattoted. And as such, seeing person desires to keep his body “naturally” there is NO suot or law that you can bring against me.

But the contrary is NOT true. My intent was to show limits in tattooing. I did that.

What do you mean by ‘force’?  I most certainly could forcibly cause somebody to get tattooed, and I might even get away with it.  I most certainly would not even consider doing whatever “there is NO suot [sic] or law that you can bring against me” means.

The only legal limits to tattooing you showed were the Oregon state laws regulating tattooists and barbers, and I was already aware of such laws.  The only limits on tattooing that I could see was an age restriction.  The other regulations concerned health, safety, licensing, and general business regulations; essentially the same as for barbers—nothing in those laws placed limits on the tattoos themselves.

Slashdot has a discussion regarding the Dilbert blog, in which Scott Adams discusses the atheist ascendancy in America and rationalizes the need for an atheist leader:

Ask a deeply religious Christian if he’d rather live next to a bearded Muslim that may or may not be plotting a terror attack, or an atheist that may or may not show him how to set up a wireless network in his house. On the scale of prejudice, atheists don’t seem so bad lately. I think that in an election cycle or two you will see an atheist business leader emerge as a legitimate candidate for president. And his name will be Bill Gates.

Bill Gates as a US president would certainly be interesting.  He has enough money that he could finance the entire election himself.  I suspect that he would have support of other business leaders.  He could get the support of those folks who are sick and tired of the Republicans and the Democrats. 

Why are the pictures in my head images of Ross Perot and of campaign signs that look like Microsoft software boxes?

Is Bill Gates an Atheist?

I could possibly see an atheist becoming president in the near future if there was some sort of rebound effect caused by the current fascist regime.  The results of the midterm election could indicate the start of such a rebound.

so if you don’t like tattoos, no one is telling you to get one. don’t get one then, and shut up about it. i love tattoos, and to me it is art, if it is done well. i don’t like the ones my boyfriend’s brother has, where they are all over in specific pattern, and none of them are very good, half of them not even finished or colored in. it looks like someone went crazy and scribbled on him, but that is still his choice. i have always loved tattoos, i like it when someone is covered in them, if they are done well. i have 6, and i am going to get more. i think woman look good with tattoos to, no im not a lesbian, i just think it is attractive, and on men to.

I’ve just scrolled through huge tracts of Don’s barely-literate ranting, repetitive diatribes (for which there should be some sort of prize, or therapy) and one thing has struck me.

I know I’m a newbie to this forum, and completely in the dark as to the finer points of the USA’s legal system (unless watching NYPD Blue and Law & Order counts), so could someone please help: is he really saying that he’d have legal recourse against someone being in his house whilst packing a tattoo? And is this anything more than the deranged ramblings of a berk?

is he really saying that he’d have legal recourse against someone being in his house whilst packing a tattoo?

No.  I think I know which post you mean, he said something about tattoos and trespassing.  I am not a lawyer (neither is he).  The tattoo would have nothing to do with it.  Anybody can kick anybody out of their house for anything.  If they come back, there are laws that would apply, possibly trespassing.

Many thanks. That’s what I thought, but best to check.

And that’s a cracking tattoo. I’d post a picture of mine, but I’d hear the mocking laughter across the width of the Atlantic - and it would be justified…

You bet, at first I thought he was talking total bullshit.  I then realized what he was saying and realized that the tattoo part is what was bullshit.  I also am not sure that trespass would be the proper law in that case, but it would be illegal.

Thanks about the ink.  I posted it especially for Don.  I have a large European style dragon on my other arm.

Cool. And thanks for the response. It’s always a little hard, breaking in to the group of established posters on Forums like this (unless you just try and piss everyone off..), but I like the opinions I’ve seen expressed here. And, more to the point, the debate between opposing standpoints. The media in England probably gives a hugely distorted picture of you guys over there, so it’s a delight to get to communicate with real, live individuals.

I do not know what the British media says about us except for the rather sterile reporting on the BBC news that we get here.  I would imagine that the British media is kinder to us than some of the other Euro countries.  In many ways, the Americans who post on here are not really representative of the population of the US.

By the way, you may see me rip some christians a new asshole on here, I don’t care that they are christians and its cool if they want to discuss things; I get pissed off when they mouth off.

I know what you mean. I have no problem with debating the issue with any religious types, as long as they are prepared to be open to argument. The trouble is, as you point out, the “if you don’t slavishly follow my belief system, you are DAMNED TO ETERNAL HELLFIRE…evolution just a “theory”…dinosaurs drowned in the flood…blah…blah…I’m just going to repeat the same dogma VERY LOUDLY UNTIL YOU SEE THE ERROR OF YOUR WAYS” evangelical ones. Which probably explains the delicious sense of schadenfreude I get from Kent Horvind and Ted Haggard’s spot of recent bother.

We get a hugely simplistic picture of the USA in our press. Our media has its good points (the BBC, for example), but our tabloids are utterly shameful, lowest-common-denominator garbage. I can’t comment on the rest of your countrymen (coz I really have no idea), but the majority on SEB seem like people I’d like to go for a drink with.  And even Don’s good for a laugh.

Weird, his thing with tattoos, though. Perhaps he was menaced by a huge anchor or a mermaid as a child…

SM: it’s a delight to get to communicate with real, live individuals.

I agree.

IDM: Americans who post on here are not really representative of the population of the US.

I bet you still pull the wings off flies and tell little kids there’s no Santa too, you bubble-burster. 

Welcome, Silvermute!

Weird, his thing with tattoos, though. Perhaps he was menaced by a huge anchor or a mermaid as a child…

My mom’s a really nice, 72-year-old lady… but I’ve no doubt she’d give Don the sharp edge of her tongue and rip him up one side and down the other were he to call her 2 tattoos (one for her 70th birthday, one for her 71st) “pig art.“ Boy would I like to see that!

Don appears to be a fucking loon.

Les puked out in his lazyness:

Just as I expected. Running away with your tail between your legs. Thanks for proving me right, Don.

Don:

You haven’t said anything Les, other than you disagree. Fine you disagree, so other than attacking the person do you have information to offer other than your opinion?

I showed there are legal limits on how to get tattoos, law regulates the industry, there are age restrictions, and there are limits to the tattoos themselves being socially obnoxious and therefore rejected.

I showed if you mark up a child’s body with tattoos you will loose that child CPS, and possible criminal charges. I showed individual rights against tattoos of many kinds, by tort, and I showed there are people that regret getting tattoos and pay big bucks to having them removed.

In addition, even within the tattoo cult there are differences of opinions of what makes an acceptable tatto. Now what do you Les?

In addition, though I am an atheist, I can find many religious reasons not to be tattooed, and avoid those that do.

If you write hate speech on your body and display it, you most certainly can be charged criminally and civilly in a court of law. Go back and see my post on what constitutes hate speech as a legal term.

In addition, I showed alternatives to tattoos to make a social statement or personal notes, as clothing and jewelry.

So,  what have you shown Les?  NOTHING, not even pig squat.  You do your own home work.

Don

You still haven’t answered my challenge. I want to see you successfully prosecute someone for having a tattoo or exposing a child to it. You keep claiming it’s possible and you even bet us you could do it, so put up or shut up Don.

Here’s a good place to start as it’s an entry I wrote specifically with you in mind, Don. It’s about a brand new toy that allows kids to pretend they’re tattoo artists! Surely you can sue that toy company based on what you’ve written so far, yes? Let’s see you do it.

Or are you just all talk as I’ve been saying all along? You blow a lot of hot air, but you haven’t proven jack shit yet.

If you write hate speech on your body and display it, you most certainly can be charged criminally and civilly in a court of law. Go back and see my post on what constitutes hate speech as a legal term.

Wow, someone might want to tell the law enforcement authorities here in Los Angeles about that, since I’ve personally seen more swastikas and other things tattooed on various folks that, were they scrawled on the wall of a building might constitute “hate speech” in accordance with local laws (in addition to being vandalism, which is a crime in and of itself regardless of the message). To date, I’ve yet to hear of a single case of any of the numerous skinheads, gangs or other racist groups being charged with a hate crime for simply displaying their tats.

Along with Les (and everyone else, I’m sure), I’m still waiting for you to cite a case that supports your assertion that someone’s tattoos are somehow actionable. Statutes and regulations governing consent and health issues are irrelevant to your argument.

Also Les, there is the point of registered trade makers, as found in this article:

“Elayne Angel is a Master Piercer and owner of Rings of Desire body piercing specialty studio. She is the Medical Liaison of the Association of Professional Piercers and is personally credited with inventing, naming, and popularizing a number of specific piercing techniques and placements, such as fourchette and lorum among others. Ms. Angel is also know for her own body art work, especially her internationally recognized black and grey angel wings tattooed by Bob Roberts, at Spotlight Tattoo in Los Angeles, in 1987. This tattoo is the first and to date, only tattoo issued a registration by the US Patent and Trademark Office. She even has the encircled “R” for registered marks tattooed near the wings.”

To put it simply, you copy this persons (or other art that is legally registered) work,  and you can open a real legal grab bag for attorney cost, fines, penalties and sanctions, to say the least. Therefore, before you get that tattoo, you might want to do a legal search to see if the art work if protected. Alternatively, just have any other stupid picture found in any book. 

Proof of originality is in the copy write.
“Monetary damages aside, the court could order injunctive relief”. Here’s the real kick in your butt Les,  A court could order tattoo removal for infringing copyright.

See:

Gonzales v. Kid Zone, Ltd. and Transfer Technologies, Inc. (2001)

It is common for the US Patent and Trademark Office to take about eight months to review a trademark or service mark application, So you have time to think about what you are doing.

People here are trying to “sell” a person into getting a tattoo. Tattoo shops will do most anything, no matter how gross or deviate, perhaps even illegal, to promote their trade. My point is show limitations and consequences.

You asked for court Les, backing—you have it, again you loose.

Don

Put up or shut up, Don. You still haven’t sued anybody yet. Until you do I think I’ll start disemvoweling your replies.

Logic 101 — the difference between ∃ and ∀…

Don said: I showed there are legal limits on how to get tattoos, law regulates the industry, there are age restrictions, and there are limits to the tattoos themselves being socially obnoxious and therefore rejected.

You provided the name of the Oregon laws that regulate tattooists, cosmetologists, and barbers.  Each state has it’s own regulations regarding tattoos, and some states do not regulate tattooists at all.  The fact that many states have age requirements for getting tattoos is not really news.  I doubt that Oregon’s licensing and health regulations come as surprises either.  NO state regulates peoples’ tastes in body art.  I may have been the poster child for having had tattoos that were socially obnoxious (and pornographic)—those tattoos broke no laws.  Yeah, I eventually covered the tattoos up with what I think are nicer tattoos, but it was my choice to do so. 

I showed if you mark up a child’s body with tattoos you will loose that child CPS, and possible criminal charges. I showed individual rights against tattoos of many kinds, by tort, and I showed there are people that regret getting tattoos and pay big bucks to having them removed.

Where did you show that getting a kid a tattoo in states where it is legal will cause whatever you claim it will cause?  I don’t know of any kids who have tattoos. I personally know of minors who have piercings (piercing generally come under the same laws as tattoos); two of them are my sons, and their mother gave her permission.  I also remember when I was growing up that mothers and aunts would pierce their daughters’ and nieces’ ears at the kitchen table. 

What do you mean by “individual rights against tattoos”?  Are you talking about the posting you did about the trespassing law thing? If you are, you were talking out yer ass.

Yeah, people sometimes regret getting tattoos.  People regret doing many things, and frequently the things that they regret are much worse than a bad tattoo.  There are alternatives to tattoo removal, in my case case I had them tattooed over.

In addition, even within the tattoo cult there are differences of opinions of what makes an acceptable tatto.

I take exception to your use of the word ‘cult’ in this case. There are many tattooists and people who collect tattoos that have differing opinions regarding certain tattoos.  I don’t think that anybody who has a clue regarding tattoos would ever classify a tattoo as being “acceptable” “unacceptable”.  Some people may believe that a particular tattoo was badly done, or may not like a particular design, but that would be a personal opinion.  Yeah, I have seen tattoos that looked like shit, or made me wonder what were they thinking?—which is totally different from saying that the tattoos were unacceptable. Example of a “what were they thinking tattoo”

Tattoos can be like decorating a room- they can look awful, no matter who good the individual artwork. But if people want ‘em why stop em. You want to ruin your body with an ill thought out Tattoo- your problem.

Forcable Tattoing would constute assault. But Donny, dear, thats not what we want. Post verbatim, or link to, one law that forbids tattooing.

I’m really late to this party, but something Don mentioned a couple days ago was clearly wrong on factual grounds:

Don: You can not force a person to get tattoted.

Tell that to the survivors of Auschwitz.

Les: Until you do I think I’ll start disemvoweling your replies.

Tht mght mk Dn’s psts mch mr ndrstndble.

Les: Here’s a good place to start as it’s an entry I wrote specifically with you in mind, Don. It’s about a brand new toy that allows kids to pretend they’re tattoo artists! Surely you can sue that toy company based on what you’ve written so far, yes? Let’s see you do it.

How’s that cliche go? You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him initiate litigation?

Don - your various and sundry opinions on the issue are irrelevant.  Tattoos and body piercings are cool, and therefore kids dig ‘em.

Don: You can not force a person to get tattoted.

In Japan, criminals used to have the word for “bad” or “dog” involuntarily tattooed into their foreheads.

Michael: How’s that cliché go? You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him initiate litigation?

I rather like the pun often attributed to Dorothy Parker too:
You can lead a horticulture but you can’t make her think. 

Reminds me of my favorite Dorothy Parker story.

Norman Mailer was at a literary party in New York, shortly after the publication of his first novel. Back then, it wasn’t socially acceptable to use obscene language in your books, so he used the word “fug” instead.

He’s introduced to Dorothy, who says “Oh, you’re the young man who can’t spell fuck.“