Atheists are America’s most distrusted minority.

Posted by Les on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 at 02:12 PM. Read 3343 times. Tags:
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Several other blogs have picked up on this and I’m late to the game, but what the hell, I blame it on my WoW addiction.

It’s true, I am the guy your mother warned you about.

According to a new survey by researchers in the University of Minnesota’s department of sociology Atheists are considered to be bad, bad people by the majority of Americans:

From a telephone sampling of more than 2,000 households, university researchers found that Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in “sharing their vision of American society.” Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry.

The parents of the first woman I asked to marry me weren’t thrilled with the idea of their daughter marrying an atheist and they worked hard to bring about the end of our relationship once we got engaged. It wasn’t the sole reason our relationship fell apart, but it was a factor in it and it left a bad taste in my mouth. Which is why I was so surprised at how accepting my in-laws are of my unbelief despite the fact that they are a reasonably religious family, certainly more so than my own family ever was.

Even though atheists are few in number, not formally organized and relatively hard to publicly identify, they are seen as a threat to the American way of life by a large portion of the American public. “Atheists, who account for about 3 percent of the U.S. population, offer a glaring exception to the rule of increasing social tolerance over the last 30 years,” says Penny Edgell, associate sociology professor and the study’s lead researcher.

Edgell also argues that today’s atheists play the role that Catholics, Jews and communists have played in the past—they offer a symbolic moral boundary to membership in American society. “It seems most Americans believe that diversity is fine, as long as every one shares a common ‘core’ of values that make them trustworthy—and in America, that ‘core’ has historically been religious,” says Edgell. Many of the study’s respondents associated atheism with an array of moral indiscretions ranging from criminal behavior to rampant materialism and cultural elitism.

I’ll give ‘em the materialism and even the cultural elitism, but criminal behavior? Folks, check your prisons and you’ll find the majority of people in there are good old fashioned believers who are supposedly all moral and upstanding thanks to their religious beliefs. Least represented belief group proportionally speaking? Atheists. Must be that cultural elitism making us so damned clever we never get caught or something.

Edgell believes a fear of moral decline and resulting social disorder is behind the findings. “Americans believe they share more than rules and procedures with their fellow citizens—they share an understanding of right and wrong,” she said. “Our findings seem to rest on a view of atheists as self-interested individuals who are not concerned with the common good.”

Which is really ironic to me considering that the vary majority of truly apathetic and self-centered people I’ve known in my life have been true believers while the vast majority of people I’ve known that actually gave a damn about the common good were atheists. It’s entirely possible that my personal experiences are different from the norm, but I haven’t any reason to suspect that is the case.

The researchers also found acceptance or rejection of atheists is related not only to personal religiosity, but also to one’s exposure to diversity, education and political orientation—with more educated, East and West Coast Americans more accepting of atheists than their Midwestern counterparts.

Being more educated makes you more accepting of other’s differences, or in other words, more liberal?!? GASP! Whodathunkit?

In all seriousness, there’s not a whole lot in this new survey that we atheists haven’t known for a long time already. The archive here at SEB has similar entries about previous surveys/studies that have said the same thing. We already know that an openly gay politician with a felony record and an alcohol problem would still be more likely to be elected to political office than an openly atheist candidate. We are the people you love to hate and that’s likely to stay that way for awhile yet to come. So long as being stupid remains fashionable at least.

Not that I’m complaining as entry into The Evil Atheist Conspiracy gets us these wicked cool black capes and long “Snidely Whiplash” mustaches that we can twirl in a sinister fashion as we cook up our plots to take over the world. 

Comments:

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Sadie Jane United States Posted on 03/31/2006 at 07:11 PM

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It may put you lower on the respectability meter, but it puts you way up on the list of people I’m likely to invite to a party at our lakeside cottage.

Well, people have said I’m the life of the party, but I think that would be a more fitting attribute for John, who’s actually set a host’s rug on fire before (accidentally, of course).  smile

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KPatrickGlover United States Posted on 03/31/2006 at 07:17 PM

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My daughter turned nine months old today.  A problem like this is not going to come up anytime soon, if ever.
However, I have to admit I would do the same thing if she wanted to marry an unbeliever one day.  Not because I personally have anything against atheists and pagans (my daily lunch buddies are a Hindu and an agnostic/lapsed Roman Catholic).  I would try to talk her out of the idea because a Christian marrying an non-Christian is just asking for trouble.

What I find interesting, Daryll, is that you don’t even consider the possibility that your child may grow up to be an atheist herself. Most of the non-believers I know, myself included, come from religous parents. We just happen to have this odd facility for critical thinking....

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Tina United States Posted on 03/31/2006 at 07:27 PM

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It’s this kind of hyper-christianity that got me started thinking about religion. Anything in extremes as well as anything the masses do/think/etc. is something I spend a lot of time pondering over to see how I really feel rather than blindly following.

I hope that makes sense. I’m just very skeptical of fanaticism over anything.

GeekMom United States Posted on 03/31/2006 at 08:23 PM

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I would try to talk her out of the idea because a Christian marrying an non-Christian is just asking for trouble.

Trouble for whom?

I think it’s trouble only if your faith is so shaky that you can’t tolerate any dissent, or if your faith is so cruel that it would cause you to reject your wife and/or children for its sake.

decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 03/31/2006 at 09:43 PM

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I should have subscribed to this thread earlier!

I have not found any reliable external marker for trustworthiness, but professed atheism in a mature adult is a sign of someone who is willing to be distrusted for his honest opinion.

Daryl, I don’t think religion is ‘unimportant’, but neither is heroin addiction.

(Sorry if this double-posts - last attempt vanished)

Consigliere United States Posted on 03/31/2006 at 10:31 PM

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Boy howdy did I miss a lot.  Order of business number one: this

: Do not be yoked together with unbelievers.

has been improperly transcribed.  Properly transcribed it means “Do not be yolked....” Properly interpreted it means after you bang that atheist, don’t be fixing him/her breakfast or having breakfast or any of that sort of thing.

As to this:

GM said: It’s a terrible idea, Daryl, especially since your children will be terrified later in life if they ever have a doubt about their faith. 

GM got any solid evidence of this other than anecdotal?  My money says no.
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To die one’s self is a thing that must be easy, & light of consequence; but to lose a part of one’s self--well, we know how deep that pang goes, we who have suffered that disaster, received that wound which cannot heal.
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Sadie Jane United States Posted on 03/31/2006 at 10:53 PM

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GM got any solid evidence of this other than anecdotal?  My money says no.

Some things just make intuitive sense, Consi. It’s not a given, to be sure, but I think it’s a good guess that, were the offspring of a fundamentalist, “hellfire-and-brimstone"-spouting parent to discover that she/he did not share her/his parents’ religious convictions, fear or at least insecurity could be expected to develop on the child’s part.

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Sadie Jane United States Posted on 03/31/2006 at 10:54 PM

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Double-dipping, because I can wink:

Welcome to the party, Consi and DOF! Did you bring a keg or two?

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decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 03/31/2006 at 11:03 PM

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Sorry, Sexy Sadie, but I am sans suds.  No one has ever named me the life of the party.  red face

zilch Austria Posted on 04/01/2006 at 03:20 AM

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Well, this thread seems to be headed the usual way for discussions of religion: towards a food fight, or a party, or both.  Good to see you again, KPG!

Well, people have said I’m the life of the party, but I think that would be a more fitting attribute for John, who’s actually set a host’s rug on fire before (accidentally, of course).

Since you brought it up, Sadie, I guess this is the right place for a similar story, which also ties in religion.  The first Christmas I spent in Vienna, Barbara’s parents invited us over.  They had a beautiful Christmas (or Saturnalia- another thread) tree, decorated with lovely handblown ornaments.  No electric lights- real candles.  Typical uptight American that I am, I expressed concern: candles on trees were forbidden in California; weren’t they worried about fire?

They laughed indulgently, and pointed to the bucket of water standing nearby, saying that they’d never even heard of a Christmas tree catching fire.  So they lit the candles, and it did look gorgeous- until it caught fire.  We managed to put it out pretty quickly, but not before the tree and a number of presents were destroyed, after which I laughed my ass off.

However, that hasn’t stopped us from putting candles on our tree every year since- we’re just a mite more careful about placement, and no more accidents have happened.  The bucket of water is still standing nearby.  Btw- inspired by PZ Myers at Pharygula, our last tree was a Cephalopodmas tree, graced by a pipecleaner octupus made by my son Adam.  Pride of place at the top, however, was still given to the angel, now over a hundred years old, we got from my grandmother.  Thus peace is kept in a household of believers and nonbelievers.

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GeekMom United States Posted on 04/01/2006 at 05:47 AM

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GM got any solid evidence of this other than anecdotal?  My money says no.

Come on, Consi, what evidence COULD there be other than anecdotal—people telling the story of how they felt when they started doubting?  I’ve seen it times a-plenty in fundy deconversion stories, but I’m sure no funded (heh) studies have been done.

Fine, no yolking with unbelievers—so make ‘em an egg-white omelet.  Who knew the Bible was so health-conscious?

Daryl Cantrell United States Posted on 04/01/2006 at 08:36 AM

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Sadie: Actually, I’ve noticed that Daryl typically will write an empassioned reply to a topic or comment that somehow strikes a nerve with him, but then he will often simply disappear without a word.

I was planning not to post on this topic again, but I’ll respond to this.

On Les’ board, I’m a Christian swimming in a sea of atheists.  I’m also a conservative surrounded by many, many liberals.  It doesn’t bother me, but part of being in the tiny minority on a message board is accepting two basic facts:

1. You will never, ever, ever, ever get the last word in.

2. You will not be able to respond to everything people say, or even the stuff specifically directed at you.

It’s simple math.  Every time Justin or I post, 5 or 10 people will reply.  I can either spend the rest of my earthly life posting on this thread and responding to people, or I can say what I think is important and then move on.

PS: Thanks for the kind words, Justice and arc_legion.  *sniff!*

Consigliere United States Posted on 04/01/2006 at 10:22 AM

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Come on, Consi, what evidence COULD there be other than anecdotal

One of those study thingamajiggers you mention:

but I’m sure no...studies have been done.

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To die one’s self is a thing that must be easy, & light of consequence; but to lose a part of one’s self--well, we know how deep that pang goes, we who have suffered that disaster, received that wound which cannot heal.
Mark Twain- Letter to Will Bowen, 11/4/1888

OB United States Posted on 04/01/2006 at 10:48 AM

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On Les’ board, I’m a Christian swimming in a sea of atheists.  I’m also a conservative surrounded by many, many liberals.  It doesn’t bother me, but part of being in the tiny minority on a message board is accepting two basic facts:

1. You will never, ever, ever, ever get the last word in.

2. You will not be able to respond to everything people say, or even the stuff specifically directed at you.

I can’t be alone in my appreciation of your “acceptance,” since it makes it far less likely that your participation in a thread will degrade into nothing more than lobbing ad hominem attacks at those you disagree with.

In another forum I visit, there’s one fundamentalist Christian guy who apparently cannot engage in any debate without ultimately resorting to calling people who disagree with him “gay,” “immoral,” or “baby-killers.” It’s really annoying, and makes it very difficult to justify even attempting to understand any point he might try to argue.  People have been telling him for years that he does his “side” a disservice by acting like such an asshole that he’s alienating those it it would appear he’s trying to reach, but it doesn’t seem to faze him in the least.

So, FWIW, thanks for not being that kind of asshole.  wink I may disagree with you about most everything, but I respect your restraint and maturity in arguing with us.

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Sadie Jane United States Posted on 04/01/2006 at 01:02 PM

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Well, Daryl, you recognize that posting on a board whose members typically hold views diametrically opposed to your own involves certain risks or guarantees (i.e. not getting the “last word” in). Aware of this fact, you still do occasionally post here. That indicates guts on your part (or perhaps sado-masochism wink).

I rarely post on right-wing and/or religious blogs and forums (or is that fora?) simply because I have neither the patience nor the time to respond to every post that will inevitably be directed at me. I have on occasion commented at
The Trommetter Times, however.

I haven’t always had a lot of patience with you in the past (okay, I’ve been downright hostile with you often), but I will say this: your comments (even or perhaps especially at their most loony) always generate discussion, be it thoughtful, enraged, or both. Anything that gets a little action going around here is ultimately appreciated.

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decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 04/01/2006 at 03:03 PM

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The distrust of those who eschew the religious Kool-Aid can reach a quote horrible conclusion, as in this post over at UTI: Damned Activist Judges.  It seems a woman has lost all parental rights because of her involvement in a group that mocks religion.  Apparently no hint of ‘other’ abuse, just irreligion.

Last_Hussar Great Britain (UK) Posted on 04/03/2006 at 08:46 PM

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Most unbelievers want few kids, or none at all.  Most liberals will have no kids or one kid.  A few have two kids.  Conservative, religious people overwhelmingly favor large families.  Just speaking for myself, I’d like to have 4-6 kids plus some adoptions.  This isn’t an issue which a couple can compromise on.  You can’t “sort ofâ€? have five kids; you either do or you don’t.

Childbirth is very much related to the maturity of the society.  A society typically goes through 5 stages.

-High birth rate to compensate for high death rate, giving a slow increase in population.

-Improvement in health care leading to lowering of death rates.

-Population explosion as the traditional high birth rate continues.

-Birth rate lowers as society catches on that you don’t need to keep the same replacement rates.

-Emancipation of women leading to a social (rather than biological) reason for birth rate to fall.

Societies with high birth rates are typically characterised by a lack of sex equality and reduced female rights.  This often goes hand in hand with religious insistence of a subservient female role and/or high birth rate.  This is fine for pre-industrialised cultures, where this is vital for survival.  The 3 Abrahamic religions are great desert survival guides- they have little to do with modern life.  We have fridges now- we don’t need to worry about pork induced food poisoning.

Sadie Jane United States Posted on 04/03/2006 at 08:52 PM

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Excellent post, Hussar.

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zilch Austria Posted on 04/04/2006 at 01:47 AM

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You said it, Hussar.  Of course, population explosions can be dealt with in more or less painful ways.  Birth control is rather less painful, war and famine (a good contempory example is Rwanda) rather more so.  Given the limited carrying capacity of the earth, despite the “green revolution”, it behooves us to try to help societies- our own, and others- to reach that fifth stage.  Religion is, unfortunately, often a big handicap in changing minds about family size.

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You were born.  And so you’re free.  So happy birthday.
- Laurie Anderson

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