brock,,,

the specific quotes are from

the message and the new king james versions.

to make sure therre is not a mis-understanding…

in my reference to the Jesus/Christ thing only going to grow, i was not implying on this site.  i meant society in general...big screen, media, etc....

I thought as much. Can you say “fundamentalist hate-mongers”? Thank you, I knew that you could.

Every time the Bible gets updated; more puritanical propaganda and less love and tolerance gets inserted.

You’re reading the devil’s books boy! Go you!

brock,,,calm down,, the scripture in Romans is the same.  the message, or kjv, or kjv, or niv, or nlt…

so do you believe any version/translation of the bible to be true??

“ covie you too are proof of the power of scripture and are evidence of the anti-christ spirit in the earth today… “

randall that said so much more about you than it did me.

*headstrong and knee-jerk I may well be sometimes, but I stand by my last post. Especially now.*

so do you believe any version/translation of the bible to be true??

True to what? Man’s penchant to create hierarchies of human and animal worth? Sure! I think the Bible does a good job of advancing religious/philosophical caste systems, though it has a few nuggets of wisdom hidden in it’s overwhelmingly anti-humanistic credo.

Mostly it allows bigots and fools to justify their beliefs and self-serving actions. If one commits anything from a faux pas to a crime against humanity all one has to do is relax in the certain knowledge that Jesus has his/her back. Christianity doesn’t teach us to be accountable; it teaches us to be dismissive of personal culpability.

If the Bible was really the “voice of God”, we wouldn’t need a rewrite every few centuries or years. Correcting and amending messages is a uniquely human method of communication. 

covie,,,

it is just an experiment…

I saw what happened when i told a few folks on here that i loved them,

i just wanted to see what happened when i slung out the classic “condemnation” style..

like i used in the examples several posts prior on this same entry…

you see i am arrogant, intolerant, smug, no matter what, it makes no difference.

if i say i love you (which i do and you would know if this were a face to face exchange) you and others despise that.

if i say hey ok then according to the bible you are this_______ you despise that too.

you invoke carl sagan and i hear oohhh and aaahhs in the partisan atheist crowd

i mention bible, Jesus, and all i hear is 4-letter words and condescending (sp?) names.

you seem to be against (anti) christians, (except for the good ones you know)
but that is just my delusional, smug, intolerant opinion....

i’ve got to go now, there is a guy in a devil suit standing in my yard...no wait that is just a guy bring over more bile-bulls to my house.

Lets look at an example of changes in Biblical passages with english as only one of the numerous languages used to disseminate it.

You’ll notice that there is much variation as the language developed. This is a fairly innocuous and straightforward passage, so imagine how perverted the passages could get when the translator had a more personal stake in the interpretation.

“The first period runs from about A.D. 600 to 1150, in which the language had the form known as Anglo-Saxon or Old English. The second period runs from 1150 to 1450, in which we may speak of Middle English. The third period is from about 1450 to 1750, called Early Modern English; and after 1750 we have simply Modern English, the language that we speak today.”

http://www.bible-researcher.com/engchange.html

Luke 2:1-2:6

Old English Wessex Gospels:
“Soþlice on þam dagum wæs geworden gebod fram þam casere augusto. þæt eall ymbehwyrft wære tomearcod þeos tomearcodnes wæs æryst geworden fram þam deman syrige cirino.and ealle hig eodon. and syndrie ferdon on hyra ceastre; þa ferde iosep fram galilea of þære ceastre nazareþ: on iudeisce ceastre dauides. seo is genemned beþleem forþam þe he wæs of dauides huse. and hirede þæt he ferde mid marian þe him beweddod wæs. and wæs geeacnod; Soðlice wæs geworden þa hi þar wæron. hire dagas wæron gefyllede þæt heo cende.”

Middle English Wycliffe:
“Forsoþe it is don, in þo da3is a maundement wente out fro cesar august, þat al þe world shulde ben discriued,þis firste discriuyng was maad of ciryne iustise of cirie& alle wenten þat þei shulden make professioun, eche bi hymself in to his cyte soþli & Joseph ste3ede vp fro galilee of þe cite of na3areþ, in to Jude, in to a cite of dauid þat ys clepid beþlem,for þat he was of þe hous and meyne of dauid, þat he shulde knoulechen wiþ marie spousid to hym wyf, wiþ childe soþli it is do whan þei weren þere, þe da3es ben fulfild þat she shulde bern child”

Early Modern English:
“And it came to passe in those dayes, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.  (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was gouernor of Syria)And all went to bee taxed, euery one into his owne citie. And Ioseph also went vp from Galilee, out of the citie of Nazareth, into Iudaea, vnto the citie of Dauid, which is called Bethlehem (because he was of the house and linage of Dauid,) To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. And so it was, that while they were there, the dayes were accomplished that she should be deliuered.”

The Message: (Around 2002)
“The Birth of Jesus
1About that time Caesar Augustus ordered a census to be taken throughout the Empire. 2This was the first census when Quirinius was governor of Syria. 3Everyone had to travel to his own ancestral hometown to be accounted for. 4So Joseph went from the Galilean town of Nazareth up to Bethlehem in Judah, David’s town, for the census. As a descendant of David, he had to go there. 5He went with Mary, his fiance, who was pregnant.
6While they were there, the time came for her to give birth.”

Words change; spellings and meanings change more quickly than we realize. The word gay doesn’t even mean the same thing it did 50 years ago.
Add to the natural fallibility of scribes and clerics, the desire of some in charge of translating, to color passages with personal intent and belief and it’s difficult to imagine this thing called the Bible remaining unadulterated.

randall your ”experiment” is nothing more than a big wooden spoon with which to stir. . . you are putting words into my posts, and not only mine I have noticed, to suit your ”delusional, smug, intolerant opinion….” (your words).
You do more work for the anti-christians than I ever could or would do. So heavy the allegations you so easily level in the name of your leave-the-judgment-to-the-almighty-ME-god you supposedly worship, and I am not sure which is worse - that you seem to be here for the sole purpose of baiting ANY remark you can get to level yet another anti-christian accusation, or that I have taken said bait - yet again.

You have some serious boogey-man issues, dude.

And on that note, I will back out before yet another thread must be shut down.

As I’ve been reading through many of the threads on this site, I have noticed mainly one thing that everyone seems to be trying to abide by: a rule of fairness.  If A insults B, B then has to come back with some type of comment that is aimed at accusing A of breaking some type of fairness rule.  And back and forth it goes until they reach some type of balance - they each have tried to attack each other the same amount of times. 

Every time I have heard these arguments (in every day life and on this site) the two people seem to be in agreement of some type of fairness rule.

What is going on here?

Being an Irish-Catholic from New York and going to school in the bible belt I was a virtual mating call for all the campus preachers. One night a preacher stuck his head in my door, looked at my empty beer can collection from the previous weekend, looked at me and said, “Mike, I don’t see eternal life in your future.” So there I was, homesick, taking 18 hours of engineering, and I just found out I was going to hell. (If I ever see that prick again I’ll tear his head off and confirm his prediction.)

A few years ago a new series of books appeared concerning a tribulation and rapture. The authors attempt to warn people about the catastrophes that will occur as christians disappear around the globe (the authors are also laughing to the bank). God have mercy on we merry dumbasses who are not saved (in a fit of mercy they tell us we still have a chance).

Pat Robertson.... (enough said).

And now the Passion. A movie about a man of peace that provokes intolerance (preacher in Denver who posted a sign blaming the Jews for the death of Christ), violence (a gummy bear can put an eye out), and backhanded elitism (may God have even more mercy on we merry dumbasses).

Why should I not consider religion of any flavor to be anything other than mass psychosis?

brock,,,i am not trying to provoke you here, just asking.  are you atheist? or do you believe in any type of God, Supreme being? 

As for me if i believe in the bible.  I understand the arguments of contradictions, changes in wording and meaning.  I understand the view of twisting a scripture to make it mean what you (we) want and all that stuff.

But I believe in Christ, I believe the Word of God.  i am probably not a good christian in covies eyes, and may even be a poor delusional person according to les.  those name actually mean nothing to me or bother me in the least.  attacks on scripture dont bother me, but make me do more reasearch to obtain facts which i have done since being on this site.  i am a guy that does his best to live out the tenants of my faith. when found guilty of not following those, i repent (turn from doing it my way) and get it right. 

unfortunately there are things that i believe that put me in confrontation with those that dont believe.  that is not always easy.  and honestly it does not get my pants to dancin’ when i say (or post) something that offends someone.

i know that i have posted things on this site that have offended people.  i have not been offended by anyone here.  but i was moved to tears by a post that indicated Jesus asked someone to get a ladder and some pliars, and i was provoked a bit by ob’s comments.  notice calvin or whoever posted the same thing, but i really felt he was honestly tired of hearing about the movie and Jesus stuff.  i felt (right or wrong) that ob was expressing a different spirit about it if you will.

a lot of stuff i have posted here lately has been a little in jest, that is just my bad attempt at humor or to lighten things up.

i see that i have failed in that, and since i am offending people i will probably go on down the road.

but what i have learned:

1.  some atheists have good reasons and facts to back up their beliefs

2.  atheists have done a lot of reasearch

3.  we all have issues (rom. 3:23)

4.  i need work in the area of apologetics

5.  there are a lot of atheist, despite their non-belief in a god, or particularly My God, still have very compelling views about politics, religion and society as a whole.

6.  in our society there are not only those that express no belief in a god, but there are those that despise Christ and His church

7.  that some atheists dont mind me worshipping God (even though they think most that do are delusional, he said with a smile) they just want to make sure that the religious freedoms in our nation are not imposed on them.

8.  that there is more of a misunderstanding of human beings than there are of any ancient manuscript

9.  devil suits at christian movies cause atheists to...giggle

10.  and i learned the key to sharing the gospel with the atheist in my neighborhood.

I can’t stand it anymore,

I CAN’T STAND IT. . .

“tenants” are people who rent their domicile.

“tenets” are principles or rules.

(This has been a public service announcement brought to you by the English Nazi)

Calvin said: I’m getting so sick and tired of turning on my TV and seeing Jesus this, and Passion that. This movie is like a rash. With that said, that fucking story makes my day. This Wendel knows what’s funny, and certainly knows how to get a reaction out of the Christian community.
I can’t wait for the spoofs and variety show skits to start hitting the air, and start punishing this movie. Fucking Jesus…get off my TV!

I said: Couldn’t have said it better myself!

Calvin made several points, and I agree with them all.  Should I have said the same thing in nicer words instead?

Feel free to spew bible quotes at me and assume you know who or what I am.  I’m fortunate enough to be a person who doesn’t give two shits what someone on a message board says or thinks.

Christians should be pelting the people selling the official “Passion” jewelry… NAILS for fuck’s sake?

How ironic that so many Christians feel justified in harassing certain people because they “insist on flaunting their specialness,” but when the shoe’s on the other foot they get their undies in a bunch and cry foul.  As ye sow...

OB - nails? Are you serious?

Seems like you’ve learned a lot and I would love to hear you justify your values without the help/validation of an intermediary. I’m not against positive acts or love. I long for them and consider myself a better human animal when I impart and experience them.

I guess I would call myself an exceptionless pantheist, meaning I believe we are each creators of all; the gods of all that is physical and all which is beyond it.

I hate “new age” labels, so I’ll stop here, adding only that I believe in personal accountability. I feel I am limited only by what I’m willing to imagine others deserving. If you limit others you limit yourself. If you harm others you harm yourself. I’m personally aware but personal and indirect are different views of the same event and only the ego makes a distinction between the two.

Covie, Sad but true

Somehow I doubt Jesus approves.  Then again, he’s not party to the licensing agreements, so I guess it doesn’t matter.

I’m not even a Christian and I find it distasteful, to put it mildly.

This movie is set to show record profits, with merchandising being only one source for enrichment. Gibson is the sole backer so he’s set for life at least, if not for afterlife. He knew what he was doing keeping most of the profit potential for himself.

The film says Jesus’ message was love. Gibson’s message: show me the money! Otherwise he should have disallowed profiteering. He should have shown it for free.

OK, I’m going to respond to a whole messa replies all at once so this will be lengthy.

OB, that Normal Bob website is pretty damned amusing! I’ve never seen that one before. And people tell me I mock Christianity too much!

Now on to Randall who has been a very busy beaver tonight I see…

the reply my myself above was not meant to be smug, i was actually just trying to be funny. i guess i failed at that.

Perhaps you should try putting a smilie in when you’re trying to be funny. It came across as rather whiny and put-upon to me and, given some of your past replies, probably to a few other people as well.

i am not trying to make a point that atheist believe only christians have the bad attributs noted above.  i am actually trying to state what you said.  that it is a human trait.  but it still seems to surprise atheists that Christians come across that way, just as it surprises christians that atheists do not live according to biblical morals.

It doesn’t surprise atheists, it just confirms what we already know: That despite the claims to the contrary most Christians aren’t any better behaved than anyone else. The problem is that in general Christians like to claim they are better behaved and yet are often the first to engage in the sins they will chastise others for committing.

if we all are judgemental, arrogant, smug etc. then why is that always the arguement??

the judgemental, intolerant thing seems always to get linked to my christianity…

the avg. christian answers a statement or opinion by an atheist by slinging an occasional,,, “your an abomination and going to hell.”

while the avg. atheist answers a christian statement by,,,"your judgemental, delusional and arrogant.”

Are you suggesting that there isn’t something judgemental and arrogant about a Christian telling someone else they are an abomination and are going to Hell? And if the atheist doesn’t believe in Hell then adding in delusional is not unreasonable. I’m not sure I see how the response from the atheist you quote here is in any way not an accurate summary of the Christian’s statement.

if you are right les, then it does not matter.  people in this world atheist, muslim, christian are all destined to a life of non-existance.  meanwhile we all have our faults.  faults that are defined by others....

And here’s where we differ. I don’t wait for other’s to define my faults. I know myself well enough to know what my faults are and I accept them and try to improve them.

Also, what the fuck is a “life of non-existence?” Stop talking nonsense.

homosexual male...its ok for two men to have sex, oh but whatever you do dont throw a jujubee at someone in the theater.

Are you seriously telling me that you don’t see the difference between these two events? One is an expression of love between two people who happen to be of the same gender while the other is an act of hatred toward someone expressing an opposing viewpoint.

Once again I have to ask if you honestly believe it’s OK for people to attack an individual simply because they’re offended by his costume? You mentioned carrying a “What Would Jesus Do” bracelet with you when you go to see the movie, do you think Jesus would’ve thrown snack foods and poured a Coke over this guy’s head as well? 

atheist...i can think you are a poor delusional, intolerant, judgemental person,,,but whatever you do dont think i actually have an ounce of faith in my heart toward God, because thats just going to far in speaking to me like that.

Dude, I only think you’re judgmental, intolerant and delusional based on your responses so far which have all been judgmental, intolerant and delusional. Don’t want to be thought of that way? Then don’t act that way.

And I’m not offended that you might think I have an ounce of faith in my heart toward your idea of God, but rather at your presumption to try and insist that I am knowingly lying to myself about it. Again, however, you completely miss the fucking point.

>>>Much Biblical quoting skippedob,,,

your disdain for love itself (Jesus The Christ) is not surprising.  It is obvious that you are living proof of the accuracy of scripture…

Not everyone equates Jesus Christ with “love itself” so your conclusion that OB’s disdain of one is tantamount to disdain of the other is silly at best.

>>>Bunch of other stuff not worth commenting on skippedif i say i love you (which i do and you would know if this were a face to face exchange) you and others despise that.

We despise it? I can’t speak for anyone else, but it doesn’t bother me in the least. I even accept the idea that you may be sincere when saying it, but that isn’t anything for me to be all that happy about. There are a lot of bad things done by people with entirely good intentions and out of love for another, but that doesn’t mean what they were trying to do wasn’t still bad.

Hell, I don’t blame you for loving me as I’m such a lovable guy and it’s only natural, but I’m a big boy and I can take care of myself.

>>>More stuff not really worth commenting on skipped>>>Something about arguing and fairness deleted

I don’t know. You tell me.

Now there’s Speck…

Why should I not consider religion of any flavor to be anything other than mass psychosis?

Damn good question. I ask it quite often myself. No one ever bothers to answer it and I suspect no one ever will.

Now nowiser…

“tenants" are people who rent their domicile.

“tenets” are principles or rules.

(This has been a public service announcement brought to you by the English Nazi)

Dude, if that’s the worst thing you can find wrong with some of the responses here then you need serious professional help.

Onto OB…

Christians should be pelting the people selling the official “Passion” jewelry… NAILS for fuck’s sake?

How ironic that so many Christians feel justified in harassing certain people because they “insist on flaunting their specialness,” but when the shoe’s on the other foot they get their undies in a bunch and cry foul.  As ye sow...

Here, here! Well said.

Then to Covie…

OB - nails? Are you serious?

Serious as a heart attack. Oops, OB has already responded with a relevant link so I won’t bother repeating it. Can you say “tacky” kids? I knew you could!

Back to OB once more…

I’m not even a Christian and I find it distasteful, to put it mildly.

My thoughts exactly. I’m surprised they didn’t ink a deal for an official Lego Crucifixion playset at this point.

Whew! That took awhile.

Thanks for taking the time though, Les; your posts are always worth reading!

It probably says alot about me and my attitude toward this Jesus character that he’d be amused by Normal Bob’s Jesus Dress-Up and appalled by the official “Passion” jewelry. :chuckle:

Ummm, you might want to check out the about page of this particular “Gazette”.

The Hoosier Gazette was created by a couple of guys in their late 20s who thought it would be fun to create a website that uses fictional news stories to poke fun at the state of Indiana.  We here at THG do not hate Indiana (we must like it or we would have left by now), we are just trying to make people laugh by satirizing news, culture, and events that happen in our state.

So is this a “fictionalized” story then?  It does seem pretty outrageous if it was true.

Well by golly there Aaron, I do believe you’re right! It appears we’ve been had by a bit of satire! It’s very well done in terms of sounding authentic enough, just this side of being too-outrageous to buy into. I’ll update the entry to reflect this new bit of info.

Still, either way it was still pretty damned amusing.

Dammit!  I knew “Hoosier Gazette” sounded familiar.  :dohtwo:

I really, really hope someone actually DOES it - and has a hidden camera going at the time!  That’d be entertainment!

Well, we can always pin our hopes on Normal Bob! He’d be perfect!

Bill Hicks has a couple of Jesus jokes...they are very funny and they don’t even put jesus down...they put down the believers !!!!
Too bad he died !
I know most Christians are probably
thinking “good for him”.

These people are violent.