Wow, maybe there is hope for the world. Maybe people will learn to choose communication and diologue instead of lashing out in irrational, self rightious violence in an attempt for ill percieved justice.

Unfortunately, sometimes Jews are not the Nation of Law & Reason.

I, among many Jews, believe that the Dome of The Rock/alAqsa Mosque will, ultimately, fall victim to such un-Jewish behavior, sooner than later, regardless of Shabak’s efforts.

Cartoon riots?
When alAqsa is destroyed, you ain’t seen nothin.

This will happen soon.

Least ye cast the first stone
After doing a bit of research I discovered we Christians are at least as bad as, and perhaps worse than, Muslims in our conduct over the centuries.
We’ve had four major Inquisitions over a five hundred year span. (1100-1600) if you take into account the events leading up to them, and the aftereffects, we end up with a thousand years of shame. (Actually it’s more like two thousand since a lot more was going on than just Inquisitions!)
Our conduct during this time would serve as a good example for any Muslim extremists we so vilify today.
Not only did we (The Church) ban books, we treated women as slaves and chattel, we kept the masses in ignorance and poverty to exploit and control them, we burned people at the stake. (Or if that could not be done we just boiled them in a pot.)
We suppressed scientific truth and regulated morals that were not in accordance with the way we thought they should be! We told everyone that the only way to salvation, (which, by the way, was our own invention) was to bribe us with tithing.
We started wars and killed hundreds of millions of people to further our own aims. We just plain “exploited” people whenever the whim grabbed us and, oh yes, sexually abused women and children!
We very quickly became the most affluent and powerful corporation on the face of the planet and would do anything to hang on to that power. We lied, stole and cheated, all in the name of God, instead of who was really responsible, the Devil. (Metaphorically)
There is only difference between us and Islam, WE GOT EDUCATED!
Slowly, in the Christian world, people started a popular uprising against oppression and said: “Enough is enough!�?
Muslims, if history is a barometer, are no different from us! The only thing we had in our favor is that about five hundred years ago, with our increasingly sophisticated civilization we slowly started to throw off the shackles of the Church. (The priesthood)
Now we question much more instead of following edicts that a lot of the time make no logical sense. We embrace knowledge instead of blindly following dogma. Our world is slowly becoming more open and, if I may say it, “Free.�?
Our best hope for peace between the “people of the book” is to help our brothers pick themselves up by their bootstraps, then morally and culturally leave the twelfth century and join the twenty first.
Your faithful scribe;
Allan W Janssen

Moses/Moshe:

I find your zeal for water conservation extremely disturbing.  ;-]

Rob I have been told a number of times that I’m a pretty smart guy, but maybe they were all shitting me because I don’t have a bloody clue as to what your talking about!

I think he’s referring to your avatar

Good read. I agree with Moses that Christianity, the way it is practiced by many, is just as dangerous and antithetical to a free, modern society as is radical Islam. In this country we are likewise observing a clash of ideologies and mindsets that belong to different eras.

Avatar! Of course, ha ha. (maybe I am an idiot!!)

To this excellent interview add the Manifesto Against Islamic Totalitarianismjust released.

I have been thinking about all the art and musical instruments that suddenly appeared after the Taliban ran from Afghanistan.  All that stuff was hidden by people who, at heart, just want to live and be happy.  Now it is those Muslims who must not let the opportunity pass to reclaim Islam from evil.

For many years now i’ve advocated what i call :The Dutch Model: when it comes to the matter of personal-public-expressions of religious, political, and any other individual beliefs.

These should be kept out of the public forum of daily interaction; No crosses, no kippas, no shadours, and definitely no nothing that might identify you as being a member of this or that ideaology.

Yes, uniform-style, state-issued jumpsuits might be necessary.  But, yes, just perhaps, we could allow different colors—only if these are not ideologically-abused by various social/religious/politico-factions.  Otherwise, a light-grey color should be enforced.

There are suitable, civil arenas where such personal beliefs can be expressed, but public displays whilst shopping, schooling, and commuting should not be tolerated.  Do you want to discuss your atheistic plots, fundamentalist_christo/islami social goals, or your desire for a heterosexual-free-state ?  Fine.

Just don’t do it in our faces.

Detain, charge, and prosecute those who choose to expound their views at the expense of the public’s time and space.

Keep the public sphere free of personal ideology, except where specifically designated (e.g., websites, meeting halls, and explicit political forums).

Persoanl beliefs, by all accounts, clearly kill.
Enforce Civil Peace, at all costs.

Do you want to discuss your atheistic plots, fundamentalist_christo/islami social goals, or your desire for a heterosexual-free-state ?  Fine.

Just don’t do it in our faces.

Uh, ron, discussing them is what freedom is all about. Thats what the whole hubbub in Denmark with those cartoons was all about.

It comes down to what we allow people to DO, and more specifically, to do (or force to not do) to others. In other word, Muslims or Christians or whoever can rail all they want against our western/liberal whatever moral shortcomings. I only have a problem when they call for violence, actually commit it, or force their own young and their own women to obey rules contrary to our laws. We have neglected enforcing our laws in some respects, because we tried to be tolerant.

Then again, in the US, hate speech (even calling for violence) is actually allowed, so in your country, that part would not actually be against the law.

Ingolfson, hate speech is not just allowed in the U.S., it is fast becomming the preferred mode of communication. Just ask any Dumbocrat or Repugnican!

You know all those futuristic movies where everyone lives in a sterilized society devoid of personal expression or color where they spend their highly regimented days sleeping, working, eating, and socializing all under the watchful eyes of a supposedly benevolent super computer that’s a front for a totalitarian government? I’ve always wondered what type of person would allow such a society to develop.

Now I realize it’s people like rob adams that would not only allow, but welcome such a society. Me? Not so much. Without conflict there is no growth, but that doesn’t mean the conflict has to be physical either.

Now I realize it’s people like rob adams that would not only allow, but welcome such a society. Me? Not so much. Without conflict there is no growth, but that doesn’t mean the conflict has to be physical either.

I’ve given up trying to figure out if and when rob.adams is serious and wouldn’t bet against this online persona being an elaborate practical joke.

Not being allowed to express personal beliefs in public is in itself an expression of a personal belief - that such shouldn’t happen in public. Unless there’s an already established totalitarian regime to make it stick, I don’t see how it could be done without a public discussion of that very belief (a contradiction) and if it can be made to stick, it means that this particular belief is enforced in preference to all others (still a contradiction). Am I missing something obvious?

Does sound like a lot of dry humour to me. But then, that’s what I’ve thought all along. Just read the conclusion . I’m sure if he were making a real point he wouldn’t have pushed for such an absurd-sounding conclusion. Same with the choice of colors.

Rob Adams is a very devious and subversive guy. He bears watching, if “They” aren’t already doing so!

Does sound like a lot of dry humour to me.

That’s the way it sounds to me, too. Having said that, I have encountered some weird folks on the Internet that are utterly serious about even more outlandish claims. Heck, look no further than the YECs that come to SEB. I have more fun taking rob.adams literally than trying to figure out what he, she, or they really believe.

That’s the great thing about the internet. You can be as irreverant as you want and get a kick out of things that don’t make it in normal social intercourse.
But then you run into someone who you think is being weird and funny on purpose and find out they rally are crazy.
Those people scare the shit out of me if for no other reason than there are sooooooooooooo many of them.
The weirdest part is the people that are completely normal, functioning human beings, except this one little bitty area where they just seem to totally lose it. (i.e. well educated Islamic suicide bombers!)

Let me just say, i am Rob Adams (and certainly no ron).  My persona is real, and not just online.  Indeed, my advocation for jumpsuits is (in)famous amongst those with whom i’ve worked or socialised.

But, alas, arc_legion is clearly the discerning reader.  The last two sentences, and the comment about whether to allow different colors, should’ve found me out.  And, thankfully, no one embraced my whole position (which has happened before...eek!).

That all said…
Ideally, i *would* like to see society slowly gravitate to a mode where clothing is uniform, utilitarian --- and all this without force.  In many think-tank circles (the “They” that try to propagate such ideals in wider policy circles) have a term for this:
“The Democratization of Clothing.”

Identical uniforms eliminate the outward appearance of power, possition, and/or wealth by erasing any superficial indications the human might desire to display.  In essence, i’m anti-plummage.  For example, to see a classic demonstration of how clothing can be mis-used, merely visit a Western healthcare facility, or a public highschool lunch-hall.

While the extremes in my post were meant only in jest, there are clearly grains of (enlightned!) truth in these dry-humour posts of mine.  The Discerning Reader should be able to sift these out, while still managing a smile. -->Pushing an ideal to the extreme reveals weaknesses and strengths of that position.

So, yes, arrest the non-uniform !
(or not)

--

They tried the uniform thing already… in communist China! Led to the cultural revolution and killing all the intellectuals. Don’t think it will fly over here!

They tried the uniform thing already… in communist China! Led to the cultural revolution and killing all the intellectuals. Don’t think it will fly over here!

True, but it seems to be successful at a smaller scale like inside religious communities and even inside fashion groups...like rockers and rappers.

I’ve worked (and lived) in more than one community where uniform, democratic-dress was the norm.  And, i don’t remember running around chasing intellectuals.  We have denounced a few people, but that was only for wasting food and electricity.  And we never killed them, that i was aware.

How does unfirom dress translate into a pogrom ?

Perhaps other, more nefarious motivations (than uniform attire) were the cause of the Cultural Revolution and the hunting of intellectuals.

--

Mao’s Cultural Revolution

“Between 1966 and 1968, Mao encouraged Red Guards to take power from the Chinese Communist Party authorities of the state and to form revolutionary committees. In the chaos and violence that ensued, many died and millions more were injured or imprisoned. Although the period after 1969 was less chaotic, the leaders of the Cultural Revolution proper remained in power and this is now widely considered to have been a period of economic stagnation.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution

The Gang of Four

“The Gang of Four (Simplified Chinese: 四人帮; Traditional Chinese: 四人幫; Hanyu pinyin: Sì rén b�?ng) was a group of Communist Party leaders in the People’s Republic of China who were arrested and removed from their positions in 1976, following the death of Mao Zedong, and were blamed for the events of the Cultural Revolution.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_of_Four_(China)

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In essence, i’m anti-plummage.

From what I’ve seen here, many of the folks here are pro-garish hawaiian shirts.  Myself, I happen to like a bit of plummage, including but not limited to pinstripe silk boxers.  A point upon which I will not budge.

I say NO!! to your tightey whitey world Mr. Adams.  My boys say NO!!! to your tighey whitey world Mr. Adams.  We shall be FREE!!  WE SHALL BE FREE!!

I’m OK as long as the uniform consists of Rockports, Dockers with Coach leather belt, and solid-color Eddie Bauer signature twill.  Anything else and I’ll fight you for it!

No wait, I wouldn’t want everyone else to dress like me.  My appearance is part of the brand.  It would be a trademark violation. 

I myself prefer something understated and flowing, offset by a smart pair of pumps!