Not quite Les…

Mac Mini - $499
Keyboard/Mouse - $58
Monitor (cheapest flat panel) - $999
Total: $1556.

You might be able to shave off $500 by buying a flat panel from someone other than Apple.

I’m still holding out for a truly cheap Mac. Probably never going to happen.

I mentioned that it’s missing the monitor, keyboard and mouse. All of which can be bought much more cheaply elsewhere.

I really should read posts further… Still, it needs to be pointed out how much a “useable” version of the Mac Mini would cost.

My latest PC was $1,800 and that included a 20” flat panel, 1GB ram, 250GB HD, 3.2GHz processor.

I think they have a ways to go before I would consider a Mac an affordable alternative to a PC.

At least it’s a step in the right direction.  And if Macs get more popular, more games will be ported sooner for them.

I started out with an Apple II SE and have never looked back.  Sure, they’re somewhat more expensive than PC’s, but more stable and easier to use.

Dave M:

$500 Mac Mini
$ 35 KVM Switch

No *need* to buy new Keyboard/mouse/monitor

Then you get the best of both worlds

Personally, I run Apple then Linux and use Windoze for games only (and for my work provided laptop)

I have a KVM switch that I use for Linux, Apple and Windows ... and it does the speakers too

I’m with Zilch in that I think this is a step in the right direction, but I do agree that it’s a little misleading to advertise a price that doesn’t include at least a keyboard and mouse. There are some other sub-$400 PCs that don’t include a monitor so I can’t fault Apple too much for that aspect of it.

For me, it’s largely my gamer nature that keeps me from making the switch to either Linux or Mac. Not that it’s impossible that I won’t jump ship some day as I have no great fondness for Microsoft, but for now I’m willing to put up with them. If nothing else it keeps the skills in good form.

Always used Mac’s @ home, only forced to use PC’s @ work. If you had compared what you got with a iMac against a Dell after upgrading to the same spec’s - we are talking beer money for a couple of weeks, @ least @ my house! And my Mac’s have never been sick, neither has the PC @ work, so if you can cover the cost’s that the company I work for spends, buy a PC.

I’m a confirmed PC user but I will definitely be buying one of these to expand my horizons.  I need to learn about integrating Mac and PC environments, and I feel very foolish as a computer support guy saying; “Duh, I really haven’t use a Mac very much - maybe you could ask so-and-so”

Plus, even I can recognize something this cool when I see it.  (drooool)

Yes it is a move in the correct direction. Maybe with all the success that iPod and iTMS is having, they can lower prices on the computer side. Maybe.

John H., I have no desire to own a Mac. I have had my fill of them and really don’t want the headaches. I have been using PC’s since the IBM AT days and zilch, I started out with an Apple ][ with 128K of RAM and 2 floppy drives (after 2 months of using a cassette recorder to store and load files). I have owned just about every computer Apple had put out. Didn’t own a Lisa or an Apple ]|[. Other than that.

My computer path fell where the money was, and in programming, the money was in PC’s.

Being new to this computer business Im just wondering what the hell LOL means? - my mate whose just as PC illiterate as me says Little Old Lady,but that doesnt seem to work.P.S:Love the new pic Les - Keep that head shaved mate!

LOL = Laugh Out Loud

I’m with Dave.  I’ve supported both PCs and Macs and my experience has been that at least with PCs, I can figure out the problem.  Whenever there was a problem with the Macs, it was most frustratingly unsolvable.  I have friends who own Apples and they wax poetic about how much better OSX is, but I don’t find it intuitive, I find the lack of a right click annoying, and I just don’t see anything to recommend them above PCs besides a pretty case.
My Dell laptop has never crashed and it offers all the nifty language switching bells and whistles people claim to be so gloriously Apple.
I guess I find the Apple proselytizers as annoying as the God proselytizers.  (Not that anyone here has done that, I just feel compelled to establish that Apple evangelists actually hurt the case for Apples...)
Plus, only 256 MB RAM?  Even if it’s DDR…

I have to admit my biggest reason for not going Mac has been the gaming issue.  Kind of strange because back in the early 80’s a friend had an Apple IIe and we used to play Wizardry on it all the time.  Proprietary costs are certainly another concern.  Also, Shana makes an excellent point- if you have the ability and desire, you can custom design a PC that can excel at whatever tasks you deem important.  Finally, I just like being able to build my own computer rather than buying the thing pre-built.

I miss my Apple IIe.  Now THAT was a gaming platform.  Loderunner…

Shana- You worship Gates before Jobs? Blasphemy!
I was hesitant to say anything at all about my heathen preference for Apple, because there are lots of sites where Jobbers and Gaters trash one another anyway, and we don’t need yet another fundamentalist debate here.

I do have a PC at home, and have to admit that XP is much more stable than previous Windows OS’s, though not as stable as OS X 10.3.5- that hasn’t crashed once.  And I don’t know much about processor architecture, but it must be admitted that although Macs regularly whup PCs in (say) Photoshop, PCs have the edge in games.  I don’t want an explanation, though, otherwise my faith in Steve’s divinity might be tarnished.

That said, all you Gaters will go to Hell, where you’ll be forced to eat old DOS manuals! Buahaha!

Right, PC’s are easier to maintain for support people, when I call the help desk and they send someone over, they always tell me they need to wipe the disk and install a new system, ya, right - just go-a-way. If this would happen then I would be spending the rest of the week reinstalling all my other applications and no work would be done. I do like to yank their chain, the last time I called they said they would give me a new HP box to replace my Dell, so I said ok. Found the HP a refreshing change, but maybe because the Dell was 3 years old. And yes, it did take a week with both systems to get everything transfered and setup all my preferences.

What all do you do with your OS X 10.3.5, zilch? I have an XP system at home that has been running for 3 months without a crash (1 reboot due to software install). All it does is control backups.

My current system hasn’t crashed since I got it which is well over 4 months ago. I play Grand Theft Auto: Vice City and lately Half-Life 2.

As far as speed. It’s easy for a computer that has 2 processors to “whup” a computer that only has one. The “performance” tests that Apple quotes are a little jaded in my opinion. There are plenty of in dependant sites out there that have shown that Apple top machine keeps up pretty well with an $1800 PC. I would love to see a dual P4 3.6GHz put up against the dual G5 2.5GHz. That would be interesting…

However, what it really boils down to is what the user is more comfortable with. That is going to be what they were introduced to first.

As far as maintenance goes, there was a time when I felt right at home going under the hood and tinkering with the machine. I even found and fixed a broken trace on an Apple ][ motherboard once. Now-a-days, in this throwaway society, it’s just easier to replace something than it is to get it fixed. Certainly cheaper.

Dave M- What do I run? Not much; aside from mail and surfing, I run a couple of notation and recording programs, synch with my PDA, and (don’t laugh) Quake III.

You are right, what it comes down to is what one is comfortable with.  I like the Mac OS, and I also like not having to worry about viruses and other vermin.  My Mac also boots up much faster than the PC at home (it’s a little newer, so the comparison is not really fair).  And it’s probably just as well that the Mac is not so great for games, because then I’d never get any work done here.

You’re certainly right about the difficulty of fixing modern stuff.  And not just computers.

As you said, it’s kind of new, probably doesn’t have all that much stuff on it. My “boot” time here at the office is about 15-20 seconds. At home it’s a little longer because I have a bunch of stuff that loads up. However, I rarely reboot.

I look at the “stability” of computers by how much they get used and for what purpose. It’s pretty easy to crash a computer, even Linux, by developing software and testing it. I have amazed many a Linux guru by crashing systems that they have told me are uncrashable.

Look at game consoles. How often do they crash? This is because the software written for them and nothing else. They don’t have to worry about hundreds of graphics cards, or other devices attached to them. Devices that are attached are designed with very strong guidelines. Macs and PC’s have all kinds of stuff in them and really throws a wrench into a developers code. Plus we must not forget that the OS’s for game consoles are smaller and simpler. OS’s for Macs and PC’s are many many times more complex.

As for viruses and the like… You are just living the dream of being under the radar. Personally, I wouldn’t mind Mac seeing a much bigger market share so that they can start seeing the things that PC folks have had to put up with for so long. What truly amazes me are the Mac folks that have conveniently forgotten what it was like back in the late 80’s and early 90’s. Back then there were 2 Mac viruses to 1 PC virus. Ah, the times, they are a changin…

DaveM said: As for viruses and the like… You are just living the dream of being under the radar. Personally, I wouldn’t mind Mac seeing a much bigger market share so that they can start seeing the things that PC folks have had to put up with for so long…

Horsefeathers.  The “Windows only gets a lot of viruses because it’s a popular target” line has been debunked many times.  Certainly that is one reason but the main one is that Windows has many features that are just begging for exploitation, like activeX, RPC, and so forth.

Even guest users can totally nuke a Windows system.

As for viruses and the like… You are just living the dream of being under the radar. Personally, I wouldn’t mind Mac seeing a much bigger market share so that they can start seeing the things that PC folks have had to put up with for so long.

Dave, it’s not a dream- it’s reality, for the time being anyway.  And wishing viruses on us macmaniacs seems a little vengeful.  Hey, we’re just people too.

As I said, I have no desire to enter a debate about this particular brand of religious belief.  I like my Mac and you like your PC.  ‘Nuff said.

decrepitoldfool, I have heard the same debunk thing from Linux users, yet there are thousands of linux machines being attacked every day. There are web sites devoted to showing all the hacked sites. Well more than Windows IIS systems.

As for the ActiveX, RPC, and other systems in Windows. They wouldn’t be in there if there wasn’t a need for them. I wish MS would seperate them from home users since most are for enterprise systems. (Not ActiveX of course).

As to nuking a system, sit a Mac in front of me and I’ll have it dead in about 30 minutes. At least that was the case back when I actually owned one. It didn’t take very long before I had killed it.

zilch, I don’t wish viruses on anyone. I just wish Mac users would realize that their systems are just as vulnerable. I guess having lived through the age of Mac viruses puts me in a unique position these days. I’m pretty certain that Symantec was the first to put out an anti-virus program for the Mac back in the Mac SE days.

I mentioned that because all the “you should switch to a Mac to get away from the viruses” statements I see all over.

I had better stop commenting on this, or I might go over the top… (If I haven’t already)

Happy computing guys…

Still, it needs to be pointed out how much a “useable�? version of the Mac Mini would cost

The whole point of the Mac mini is to appeal to people that already have a windows pc (and associated perepherals).  For that target audience, I think it is a fantastic idea.  It gives all those people “on the edge” of switching an easy and cheap way into the Mac fold.

If you want the whole shebang, the mini is probably not a wise choice.  You are better off going with the iMac G5, which is a pretty good deal in my opinion, and includes everything.

Oh, so it’s a gateway drug? 

(Just for the record, I’ve never had a virus.)

Seriously, I didn’t mean to start a mess...I love all you apple users, really!  Can’t we all just get along?

I started out on mac when I was a graphic artist, then had to learn the pc because the company where I worked promoted me to coordinator....I hated pc’s...adobe products wasn’t even available for pc.
Today I use both and I know them both very well. I can dismantle both machines and I can also mess around with both operating systems.

To me they are very much the same and to be honest I almost never use the mac anymore.
There is nothing that I can do on a mac that I can’t do on a pc.
That’s my story.