It is because of people like you voting for assholes like Kerry that I pay a shitload in taxes so that stupid, lazy people can sit on their asses and enjoy all of the lovely little programs from the government.  I may be an atheist, but I will always go with the guy that believes in hard work and fair taxes.

Hmmm.. . **erase, scribble, scribble**

It is because of assholes like Bush having a shitty economic and foreign policy that I pay a shit-load in taxes so that stupid, lazy politicians and lobbyists can sit on their asses and enjoy all of the bounty of the rape and pillage government programs.  I may be an atheist, but I will always go with the guy that believes equal rights, hard work and fair taxes.

Ahhh.

Chad, taxes pay for schools, health care, roads, public transport, defence, etc, etc…

You’ll probably find most of the budget pie goes to defence these days…

My you are one busy man.  I vote for who I feel is the lesser of two evils and Kerry is it.  Just my opinion and you know I don’t get all political, it just seems right from what I’ve read.  We are a house divided at my casa, but we agree to disagree at least on this.  Can’t wait to see the halloween design!

I love politics!  It brings out the best in all of us.  No wonder religion and politics are frequently grouped together as two subjects not to be brought up in polite conversation.  In all fairness, there are so many things I don’t like about either of our candidates.  What bothers me most about Kerry, though, is the fact that it seems like everything he has ever done has been for one reason alone, and that is becoming President.  I get the feeling that he would say or do anything to succeed in that goal.  There is no doubt that he is very intelligent, but you need more than that. 

A couple of months ago he was saying that he would have voted to go into Iraq knowing that there weren’t any WMDs.  Now he says “knowing what we know now” he wouldn’t have gone to war.  Anybody with half-a-brain could come up with that.  His stances are completely inadequate for somebody wishing to be President. 

He has said outright that he will raise taxes.  Thanks, Tish but I know where my taxes go.  I don’t want socialized healthcare and I don’t want to be supporting every stupid person with 10 kids who can’t work.  There is a reason why people come to this country for major operations and not France.  As screwed up as our system is, it is still one of the best.  I guess the question is whether or not you believe that everyone is entitled to ‘free’ healthcare or just to available healthcare.

Anyway, my intention is not to be a complete asshole.  Help me out here.  Am I missing something with this guy?

MY comment is on #5.  I think a picture of you sucking rotten pumpkins could be an interesting social statement.  Even knowing that this might be the outcome!!

It is because of people like you voting for assholes like Kerry that I pay a shit load in taxes so that stupid, lazy people can sit on their asses and enjoy all of the lovely little programs from the government.

If only it were so simple and clear-cut I would probably agree with you, but you’re oversimplifying things a bit. Do you think I’m at all happy that my tax dollars are being spent to fight a war we never should have gotten into in the first place? What’s worse? Spending tax money on lazy bums who should get a job or on destroying a country and killing untold number of innocents in order to disarm a man who had nothing to disarm and then spending billions more trying to rebuild said country under near-impossible conditions that we caused in the first place?

According to the Office of Family Assistance’s Fifth Annual Report to Congress, the total cost for the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) program between the Fiscal Years of 1997 and 2001 was $81 billion. In comparison the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated in a report to Senator Kent Conrad in June that the total cost for “Operation Iraqi Freedom” from 2003 through the end of 2004 at $93.7 billion. That estimate is ONLY for covering “military operations in and around Iraq” and excludes “obligations for certain classified activities, which are not included in the DFAS reports, and obligations of funds for reconstruction activities administered by other executive branch agencies.”

Even if we were to assume that ALL of the 273.6 million people who received welfare from TANF in the four years of the program’s existence consisted entirely of, as you put it, “stupid, lazy people” it still ends up being a shit load cheaper to pay for than our rather piss-poor attempt to bring Democracy to Iraq. Hell, the cost of military operations in Iraq alone would cover TANF’s costs for another 4+ years even if we disregard the fact that the number of caseloads under TANF has been declining steadily (read: there are fewer people on welfare) since its inception.

I may be an atheist, but I will always go with the guy that believes in hard work and fair taxes.

This implies you think that John Kerry doesn’t believe in either of these things. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to what he’s said that makes you think this.

For that matter: Define “fair taxes.”

What bothers me most about Kerry, though, is the fact that it seems like everything he has ever done has been for one reason alone, and that is becoming President. I get the feeling that he would say or do anything to succeed in that goal. There is no doubt that he is very intelligent, but you need more than that.

Somehow I still find that more appealing than a man who thinks he’s President because God specifically chose him for the job. You’d rather we had a President who doesn’t really give a fuck if he’s President?

“Can’t have a guy for President that’s been working towards that goal his entire life. Wouldn’t want someone with more than a C average to get into power. That would be dangerous!”

A couple of months ago he was saying that he would have voted to go into Iraq knowing that there weren’t any WMDs.  Now he says “knowing what we know nowâ€? he wouldn’t have gone to war.  Anybody with half-a-brain could come up with that.  His stances are completely inadequate for somebody wishing to be President.

You’re going to dismiss all of his stances on all of the issues based on one statement that he’s changed his mind on?

He has said outright that he will raise taxes.

Really? When? Can you cite some source for this statement?

I don’t want socialized healthcare and I don’t want to be supporting every stupid person with 10 kids who can’t work.

I don’t want to support welfare for corporations and I don’t want to be supporting every stupid war that’s started for false reasons, but I am under Bush.

You’re right though. Best to let those stupid people with 10 kids who can’t work just starve to death. The kids too. Think of all the positive benefits THAT would bring! Smaller class sizes allowing teachers to spend more time with each student. Fewer potential smokers. Less traffic on the roads resulting in lower pollution levels. Fewer frivolous lawsuits because there’d be fewer people to sue or be sued by. Why the list just goes on and on!

I guess the question is whether or not you believe that everyone is entitled to ‘free’ healthcare or just to available healthcare.

So your motto is: Pay up or die? You’d go far in an election…

As screwed up as our system is, it is still one of the best.

The US is 28th in life expectency even though we are highest in health care spending, both in absolute dollars per capita and as a percentage of our GDP.

Our infant mortality rate of 7.0 per thousand is worse than at least 26 other nations - maybe more but the list I have stops at 26, the ranking of New Zealand which has 6.2 per thousand. (Source: The Economist World In Figures)

Sure, one of the best… I guess.

Yeah, one of the best

What? You don’t consider being in the top 30 in life expectancy as being one of the best?!? Why if this were the Olympics that’d practically be a bronze medal!!!!

OK, no, it wouldn’t even be close.

You make it sound like we’re not getting our money’s worth or something.

What is interesting in this matter is in how public perception is affected even if you know the source of the information (=spin) is suspect.

See, Les, you said that previously you didn’t so much expect to vote for Kerry as against Bush. Now you have seen Kerry ‘on a roll’, you have a much more favorable opinion of him. Even though you probaby didn’t get much new info from the debates at all (seeing that you and the people on this board are already pretty well informed).

So I theorize that you opinion (and mine too!) of Kerry was severely influenced by Bush administration spin. Even though we certainly suspected it to be half-truths and outright leis from the start.

Human minds are malleable things (except The Shrubs brain of course, which never wavers from the straight and narrow).

Saw you ‘joined the revolution’, Les

You really seem to have switched from the ‘vote against’ to ‘vote for’-type.

Does that make your blog ‘liberal’ now (I remember some sort of site which you linked to a few months ago where I believe you were in the ‘independants’ section)?

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It’s true. Kerry’s performance during the debates was enough to convince me that voting for him was more than simply choosing the lesser of two evils to actually being a good choice.

As far as I’m aware, my blog has always been a liberal blog in as much as I’m pretty much a liberal in most respects. I’ve even gone as far as to consider breaking down and joining the Democratic party seeing as I’m aligning with them more often than not these days, but there’s still enough about the party that bugs me that I’m not ready to take that step just yet. So in terms of political affiliation it’s still accurate to describe me as an independent, but in terms of philosophy I’m definitely more liberal than conservative.