Answers in Genesis indeed…

Posted by Shaye on Friday, October 01, 2004 at 04:30 PM. Read 8162 times. Tags: ,
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A few days ago, I received one of those little books. You know the ones I mean. It said, “What REALLY happened to the Dinosaurs?” on it. I was intrigued, “Hey, I want to know!” and I proceeded to read it. I had the best laugh that I’d had in a long while, it was so funny.

It is written by a man named Ken Ham (it’s a very apt name) and he tries to explain the ‘mystery of dinosaurs’ and how their bones just prove creation science even more. I was going to scan the entire 40 page booklet, but I’ll just type out some of the more amusing passages, but I will be scanning the terrible and cartoony images of the dinosaurs, they are just awful.

Mr. Ham begins with, “Dinosaurs are used more than anything else to indoctrinate children and young adults in the idea of millions of years of Earth history. However the Bible gives us a framework for explaining dinosaurs in terms of thousands of years, and solving the mystery of what happened to them.” Well, I could say this booklet is indoctrinating children and young adults into believing your nonsense, but let’s just read on.

He continues by explaining what those dirty evolutionists think, dinosaurs ‘ruled’ the earth (his exact quote) and somehow for some unbeknownst reason to any scientist they just disappeared 65 million years ago. But wait, no he says, some silly scientists think birds evolved from dinosaurs, why that’s even more absurd than a flying dragon! Or is it?

He says that obviously dinosaurs were created 6,000 years ago, as were all life forms, and that Adam lived in the same time as these (all 600… he actually believes there were 600 ‘kinds’ of dinosaurs) gentle creatures who all ate plants. But wasn’t Tyrannosaurus Rex a carnivore? Well not to worry paleontologists, because Ken Ham says that you really can’t tell what a dinosaur’s teeth say about the eating habits because you can’t even tell what skin color was by bones! He says, “Scientists generally do not dig up a dinosaur with all its flesh intact”, which is true, does this man know anything about real science? So, T-Rex ate plants like all the good animals, until someone sinned and, uh-oh! Here comes that flood.

He also says that of course scientists are wrong about explaining the origins of dinosaurs, simply because they make mistakes all the time. Look at brontosaurus, it was really an Apatosaurus skeleton with an incorrect head and labeled mistakingly. Okay, so he got us there, but science is self-correcting, once new evidence shows up it replaces the old, outdated stuff. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it was wrong, but it was human error in the case of brontosaurus.

So Noah comes, and there’s the flood, but aren’t dinosaurs too big to fit on the ark? No! says Ken Ham, there’s plenty of room on the boat. Remember, out of the 600 ‘kinds’ of dinosaur, only like four or five were actually really big. So the smaller ones got to live, and they went on the art with Noah.

Now he gets really funny. He tries to give examples in the bible where it mentions dinosaurs, he finds ones about sea monsters, and flying monsters and ties those to Mosasaurus and pterodactyls. He references a movie entitled The Great Dinosaur Mystery and explains that in all ancient cultures, they had legends about ‘dinosaur-like’ animals which the called “dragons”. From Gilgamesh (ironic he chooses an epic that a lot of Near East texts are based off of) to a book published in the 1500s, there is evidence that dinosaurs were actually dragons, now gone due to hunting by humans.

He comes back the bones and teeth thing again. “Movies like Jurassic Park and The Lost World portray most dinosaurs as aggressive meat eaters. But the mere presence of sharp teeth does not tell you how an animal behaved, or necessarily what food it ate--only what kind of teeth it had (for ripping food etc.).” He just obliterated his own statement. Why would a plant eater need sharp teeth for ripping plants? He sites bears as a good example, “bears have teeth similar to a carnivore’s but are mostly vegetarian”. Bears are omnivores, eating whatever they can to survive. A lot of times, plants are more easily accessible than fish, or other meat. He claims that claws and fangs came about because sin was introduced and they are wicked. This guy is nuts.

Ken Ham tries to explain just why it is that dinosaurs can’t be seen anymore even though they were on the ark with Noah, and why people are still so fascinated with these creatures. He blames evolutionists (surprise) as spreading evil evolutionary propaganda to poor, little hapless Christians, who are so gullible they tend to think of dinosaurs as being ‘somewhat mysterious’. He goes on to say, “If you were to ask at the zoo why they have endangered species programs, you would probably get an answer something like this: ‘We’ve lost lots of animals from this Earth. Animals are becoming extinct all the time. Look at all the animals that are gone forever. We need to act to save the animals.’ If you then asked, ‘Why are animals becoming extinct?’ you might get an answer like this, ‘It’s obvious! People are killing them; lack of food; man destroying the environment; diseases; genetic problems; catastrophes like floods (HMM CONSPICUOUS!)-- there are lots of reasons.’ Ken Ham has some good examples of why animals start to fall into an extinction vortex, and ultimately end up not existing anymore, perfectly good reasons as to why the dinosaurs might have died off, except the flood one. Now Ken explains quite enthusiastically the real reason that dinos aren’t here anymore. ‘Maybe one of the reasons dinosaurs went extinct is that we didn’t start our endangered species programs early enough!’ What a moron!

Birdosaurs? Ken Ham tries his best to debunk the theory that some dinosaurs may have evolved into birds. This man, like many others, has such a poor knowledge of how evolution works its appalling. He says dinosaurs and birds aren’t the same, birds are warm-blooded not cold-blooded like a dinosaur would be according to science. “Sadly, the secular media have become so blatant in their anti-Christian stand and pro-evolutionary propaganda that they are bold enough to make such ridiculous statements as, ‘Parrots and hummingbirds are also dinosaurs.’ I’ve never heard that. I personally do see evidence currently that some species of dinosaurs evolved into birds, what Ken Ham fails to remember is that the Jurassic age was just one of three periods in the Mesozoic era, Cretaceous, Jurassic and Triassic. Each one of those periods is marked by significant extinction, and spanned some 500 millions years, much, much longer than humans have been around.

Ken Ham is a creation science moron, and I find his drivel funny. It’s not funny when people are stupid enough to believe it. Someone from the Answers in Genesis website wrote in about the booklet, “I wanted to thank you for sending me the package of booklets for my office. I put them out yesterday and I saw at least one patient with the ‘Dinosaur’ one in her hand. At the end of the day, the young woman who ‘floats’ on our wing was reading the ‘Does God Exist?’ booklet. She commented, ‘This is really interesting!’ Her name is Laura. I already use the Focus on the Family pamphlets in my office but had never thought of using yours. I plan to keep them in stock. People really like having literature like this in the office and I get lots of comments on them and it opens up lots of avenues for conversation. Thank you again for your ministry and thoughtfulness. — Debbie E., Oregon” How nice… looking around I think more and more that Ken Ham and people like him are retarded, and deserve to go live on the moon.

Comments:

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Sadie Jane United States Posted on 05/30/2007 at 01:49 PM

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Of all the inane drivel emanating from Hermit/Kerry’s keyboard, this was perhaps his most revealing (I use that term loosely, mind you) comment to date:

JulianP: Show me a physics text book or a real science site that states “nothing went bang”.

I see.  My mistake.  I didn’t realise I have to get my arguments re the veracity of Holy Scriptures from a physics text book.  I thought you were the people putting forward that view.

Sarcasm aside, it illustrates how his worldview is so irreparably colored by his religion that he projects it onto every facet of life. He cannot and will not grasp that science operates differently. If only he were an isolated case it would be pretty amusing.

What is amusing has been watching this guy go. He’s like a kid’s toy--wind him up, and he just won’t stop.

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elwedriddsche United States Posted on 05/30/2007 at 02:09 PM

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DOF, never forget about PEBCAK.

MP: Just teasing you… The thing about H is that he’s so wrong about so many things that even the patient point by point commentary that Les often does is hard to do—you simply don’t know where to start.

To engage him reminds me of the error handling of the earliest compilers in the punch card age - at the first sign of trouble, you raise a flag and punt on the rest. Have him resubmit another iteration of job and see if it eventually parses.

I predict that H will do some more chest and Bible thumping, holler that we’re not mentally equipped to follow his brilliant apologetic skillz, eventually get on the pig and pearls track, and proclaim victory again. Or did he already try that tack?

I sometimes wonder if it would be worth the trouble to create a section of this site for meta-commentary that’s accessible by invitation only. Technically, it wouldn’t be hard to do, but anybody who cares to can already have private conversations via PMs. And it’s perhaps for the best if all commentary is out in the public, even at the price of feeding trolls well past the point where they have any entertainment value.

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elwedriddsche United States Posted on 05/30/2007 at 02:27 PM

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SJ, he’s generally right, though:

I didn’t realise I have to get my arguments re the veracity of Holy Scriptures from a physics text book.

To convince us of the veracity of the scriptures of his choice, he can’t be begging the question. Any argument worth a fleeting thought cannot rely on the very same scriptures for premises and he has to deliver a naturalistic proof of god’s existence.

To state the obvious, that he’s sort of right doesn’t work in his favor.

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Michael Peacock United States Posted on 05/30/2007 at 02:49 PM

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I hadn’t read this before, but as usual, Stephen Jay Gould had eloquently dismissed the plausibility of the biblical flood account long ago - and with it, he demonstrated creationism is simply religion.

MP: Just teasing you…

I know.  I just hate being wrong.

I predict that H will ... proclaim victory again.

Two can play at that game:

Science shoots ... Science scores!  The crowd is going wild as Science defeats Religion on its home turf.  That was some wild argument folks, but there was never really any doubt as to the outcome.  Science had all those facts, and Religion, well Religion had some wishful thinking and a collection of fables.  Nosiree, we’re seeing a true paradigm shift here folks, as Science has gained so much ground that was once the province of superstition, that everyone now admits that Science wins!  Tune in next week as we look into job skills retraining for former clergy.

Game over.  We win.

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Sadie Jane United States Posted on 05/30/2007 at 03:57 PM

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Science shoots ... Science scores!...Game over.  We win

Once again.

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timmeh United States Posted on 05/30/2007 at 06:21 PM

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Well it’s day three and I still haven’t been stoned to death for working on the sabbath.

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KPatrickGlover United States Posted on 05/30/2007 at 07:00 PM

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Kerry, you ignorant slut…

Please stop fucking the dog.

unless you care in 500 words or less to tell me why the Big Bang (nothing went bang and became everything) is the truth.  Please show me the verifiable facts, and no inconsistencies, please. And while you’re there, an account proving microbes-to-man evolution has occurred.  Again, verifiable facts, please.  Oh, and circular reasoning, and appeals to Darwin or other scientific writings are not acceptable.  Neither are “gaps” in the fossil record.

There’s your fucking problem, in a nutshell. You actually think that its possible to explain something as complex as the creation of a universe in 500 words.

And your idea about showing every single step, with no gaps, betrays a complete ignorance of scientific method. By those standards, no murderer could ever be prosecuted unless the event was actually witnessed every step of the way. Deduction need not apply.

So, why should we give your fairy tale any more credence than the fairy tales supported by Scientologists or the Heaven’s Gate cult or any other bullshit group that wants to take silly ass myths and define them as fucking Truth?

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decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 05/30/2007 at 07:22 PM

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Elwed: “DOF, never forget about PEBKAC.

Should we tell ‘em?  All right: “Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair” If you see that on your computer repair bill, your tech support guy is having you on a bit.  Ditto with the “ID Ten T” error, which is written “ID10T”

Unfortunately, my computer gets ID10T errors all the time… and the cause is definitely PEBKAC. raspberry

Sadie Jane United States Posted on 05/30/2007 at 07:33 PM

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I knew KPG would eventually stop by to mop the floor with Hermit/Kerry. Good to see you, my man.  smile

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Sadie Jane United States Posted on 05/30/2007 at 07:42 PM

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I know I said I was done with Hermit/Kerry, but this morsel is just too good to pass up:

...unless you care in 500 words or less to tell me why the Big Bang (nothing went bang and became everything) is the truth.

We don’t yet know if it’s the incontrovertible truth, but there is empirical evidence behind its claims. For the claims of your side, not so much.

Oh, and circular reasoning…

No circular reasoning is required when empirical studies support a particular claim.

...appeals to Darwin…

Oh no! Your ignorance is leaking. Darwin had nothing to say about the Big Bang. Next!

...other scientific writings are not acceptable.

LOL

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KPatrickGlover United States Posted on 05/30/2007 at 07:49 PM

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Sadie: I knew KPG would eventually stop by to mop the floor with Hermit/Kerry. Good to see you, my man.

And a pleasure to see you, my dear. How’s life treating you?

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Sadie Jane United States Posted on 05/30/2007 at 08:06 PM

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Oh, I can’t complain.

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elwedriddsche United States Posted on 05/30/2007 at 09:29 PM

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(KPG) You actually think that its possible to explain something as complex as the creation of a universe in 500 words.

Tut tut. Are you insinuating that the universe is created?

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KPatrickGlover United States Posted on 05/30/2007 at 09:42 PM

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Elwed: Tut tut. Are you insinuating that the universe is created?

Now, Elwed, you know me better than that. I am NOT implying that the universe was “created” by some intelligence. I think that the word is just fine for a universe that was created by the force of the Big Bang. I’m tired of words being hijacked to have only religous meanings.

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Last_Hussar Great Britain (UK) Posted on 05/30/2007 at 09:57 PM

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Damn, Les and KPG got in with what I was going to say.

Hermit read Les entry 05/30/2007 at 12:33 PM (P13 I think).  The read what KPG said about logical inference. Look at it this way. You can not name every ancestor you had since 1007AD.  At, say, 25yrs per generation there are 40 generations. A huge number of people must have existed for you to be here. You can not prove the existence of them all, but they obviously all exist to allow you to exist. Thats what evolution is a bit like- just because we do not have every transition does not mean that calculations that we have (EG DNA comparisons) do not work. 

If you really want to disprove current evolutionary theory find a new creature with the ‘wrong’ DNA.  A biologist can place an animal on a ‘family tree’ of DNA before the tests are completed- even completely new creatures. Over a long time this has been worked out, with each discovery adding to the jigsaw.

We can not do 500 words for everything, but we can do less than 100 for our reasons.

DNA relationships fit where they are expected to- there are no major surprises.

Carbon dating shows the age of the Earth is older than a strict biblical interpretation allows.

Geologial observations give indications on formation of the planet. They also give evidence of fossils etc.

What we want is- Why should we believe the bible is the inerrant word of God?  What would you require of your Sikh equivalent to convince you to convert?

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Last_Hussar Great Britain (UK) Posted on 05/30/2007 at 09:57 PM

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Oh- and Kangaroos- did they swim?

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I know of only two things that are infinite- The universe, and human stupidity.
And I’m not sure about the universe.
(Einstein)

elwedriddsche United States Posted on 05/30/2007 at 10:30 PM

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Oh- and Kangaroos- did they swim?

They inflated their pouches.

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Science is answers that must always be questioned.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.
Religion is answers that must never be questioned.
Politics is answers that lobbyists pay for.

decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 05/30/2007 at 10:41 PM

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KPG: “I think that the word is just fine for a universe that was created by the force of the Big Bang. I’m tired of words being hijacked to have only religous meanings.

Fortunately, the reverse is also possible:

“I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.”
- Frank Lloyd Wright

timmeh United States Posted on 05/30/2007 at 11:11 PM

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FATAL ERROR:

Can not access hub0(human brain)
system will shut down now

Sending TERM SIG all (ok)
Unmounting / (ok)

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zilch Austria Posted on 05/31/2007 at 03:13 AM

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...and it’s a wrap, folks…

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Sadie Jane United States Posted on 05/31/2007 at 03:18 AM

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...I ain’t gonna work on Maggie’s Farm no more…

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timmeh United States Posted on 05/31/2007 at 08:21 AM

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yum --resolvedep hermitegreen.rpm
Loading “resolvedep” plugin
Setting up repositories
Reading repository metadata in from local files
Resolving dependencies for hermitgreen
Dependencies chaeck fail
missing files
libintelligence
libreason
criticalthinking_1.4.34
Process exited normally with code 1

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timmeh United States Posted on 05/31/2007 at 08:27 AM

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That’s the Linux version of what hermit/kerry green thinks our problem is.

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decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 05/31/2007 at 08:34 AM

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Evolving Thoughts has a great discussion of The world according to Genesis: cosmos.  It’s the first in a series.  Good stuff.

Next post will be about “living kinds”.  I have a hunch it won’t be pretty.  cool smirk

timmeh United States Posted on 05/31/2007 at 08:48 AM

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The point of that was to show, you think you can program us to believe what you do. You take the base code of the “bible” and tweak it a little bit and release it as your own distro. You think we lack the basic understanding of god (through your eyes) and reject true intelligence. I bet you would go as far as to say we are not even smart enough truly understand the “truth”.
I ask you once again to justify the bible and all it’s mistakes, and contradictions. For this I point you to http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html
Feel free to use the bible for this, as I need a good laugh.
And I’m still waiting to be stoned to death.

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