Answers in Genesis indeed…

Posted by Shaye on Friday, October 01, 2004 at 04:30 PM. Read 9007 times. Tags: ,
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A few days ago, I received one of those little books. You know the ones I mean. It said, “What REALLY happened to the Dinosaurs?“ on it. I was intrigued, “Hey, I want to know!“ and I proceeded to read it. I had the best laugh that I’d had in a long while, it was so funny.

It is written by a man named Ken Ham (it’s a very apt name) and he tries to explain the ‘mystery of dinosaurs’ and how their bones just prove creation science even more. I was going to scan the entire 40 page booklet, but I’ll just type out some of the more amusing passages, but I will be scanning the terrible and cartoony images of the dinosaurs, they are just awful.

Mr. Ham begins with, “Dinosaurs are used more than anything else to indoctrinate children and young adults in the idea of millions of years of Earth history. However the Bible gives us a framework for explaining dinosaurs in terms of thousands of years, and solving the mystery of what happened to them.“ Well, I could say this booklet is indoctrinating children and young adults into believing your nonsense, but let’s just read on.

He continues by explaining what those dirty evolutionists think, dinosaurs ‘ruled’ the earth (his exact quote) and somehow for some unbeknownst reason to any scientist they just disappeared 65 million years ago. But wait, no he says, some silly scientists think birds evolved from dinosaurs, why that’s even more absurd than a flying dragon! Or is it?

He says that obviously dinosaurs were created 6,000 years ago, as were all life forms, and that Adam lived in the same time as these (all 600… he actually believes there were 600 ‘kinds’ of dinosaurs) gentle creatures who all ate plants. But wasn’t Tyrannosaurus Rex a carnivore? Well not to worry paleontologists, because Ken Ham says that you really can’t tell what a dinosaur’s teeth say about the eating habits because you can’t even tell what skin color was by bones! He says, “Scientists generally do not dig up a dinosaur with all its flesh intact”, which is true, does this man know anything about real science? So, T-Rex ate plants like all the good animals, until someone sinned and, uh-oh! Here comes that flood.

He also says that of course scientists are wrong about explaining the origins of dinosaurs, simply because they make mistakes all the time. Look at brontosaurus, it was really an Apatosaurus skeleton with an incorrect head and labeled mistakingly. Okay, so he got us there, but science is self-correcting, once new evidence shows up it replaces the old, outdated stuff. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it was wrong, but it was human error in the case of brontosaurus.

So Noah comes, and there’s the flood, but aren’t dinosaurs too big to fit on the ark? No! says Ken Ham, there’s plenty of room on the boat. Remember, out of the 600 ‘kinds’ of dinosaur, only like four or five were actually really big. So the smaller ones got to live, and they went on the art with Noah.

Now he gets really funny. He tries to give examples in the bible where it mentions dinosaurs, he finds ones about sea monsters, and flying monsters and ties those to Mosasaurus and pterodactyls. He references a movie entitled The Great Dinosaur Mystery and explains that in all ancient cultures, they had legends about ‘dinosaur-like’ animals which the called “dragons”. From Gilgamesh (ironic he chooses an epic that a lot of Near East texts are based off of) to a book published in the 1500s, there is evidence that dinosaurs were actually dragons, now gone due to hunting by humans.

He comes back the bones and teeth thing again. “Movies like Jurassic Park and The Lost World portray most dinosaurs as aggressive meat eaters. But the mere presence of sharp teeth does not tell you how an animal behaved, or necessarily what food it ate—only what kind of teeth it had (for ripping food etc.).“ He just obliterated his own statement. Why would a plant eater need sharp teeth for ripping plants? He sites bears as a good example, “bears have teeth similar to a carnivore’s but are mostly vegetarian”. Bears are omnivores, eating whatever they can to survive. A lot of times, plants are more easily accessible than fish, or other meat. He claims that claws and fangs came about because sin was introduced and they are wicked. This guy is nuts.

Ken Ham tries to explain just why it is that dinosaurs can’t be seen anymore even though they were on the ark with Noah, and why people are still so fascinated with these creatures. He blames evolutionists (surprise) as spreading evil evolutionary propaganda to poor, little hapless Christians, who are so gullible they tend to think of dinosaurs as being ‘somewhat mysterious’. He goes on to say, “If you were to ask at the zoo why they have endangered species programs, you would probably get an answer something like this: ‘We’ve lost lots of animals from this Earth. Animals are becoming extinct all the time. Look at all the animals that are gone forever. We need to act to save the animals.‘ If you then asked, ‘Why are animals becoming extinct?‘ you might get an answer like this, ‘It’s obvious! People are killing them; lack of food; man destroying the environment; diseases; genetic problems; catastrophes like floods (HMM CONSPICUOUS!)—there are lots of reasons.‘ Ken Ham has some good examples of why animals start to fall into an extinction vortex, and ultimately end up not existing anymore, perfectly good reasons as to why the dinosaurs might have died off, except the flood one. Now Ken explains quite enthusiastically the real reason that dinos aren’t here anymore. ‘Maybe one of the reasons dinosaurs went extinct is that we didn’t start our endangered species programs early enough!‘ What a moron!

Birdosaurs? Ken Ham tries his best to debunk the theory that some dinosaurs may have evolved into birds. This man, like many others, has such a poor knowledge of how evolution works its appalling. He says dinosaurs and birds aren’t the same, birds are warm-blooded not cold-blooded like a dinosaur would be according to science. “Sadly, the secular media have become so blatant in their anti-Christian stand and pro-evolutionary propaganda that they are bold enough to make such ridiculous statements as, ‘Parrots and hummingbirds are also dinosaurs.‘ I’ve never heard that. I personally do see evidence currently that some species of dinosaurs evolved into birds, what Ken Ham fails to remember is that the Jurassic age was just one of three periods in the Mesozoic era, Cretaceous, Jurassic and Triassic. Each one of those periods is marked by significant extinction, and spanned some 500 millions years, much, much longer than humans have been around.

Ken Ham is a creation science moron, and I find his drivel funny. It’s not funny when people are stupid enough to believe it. Someone from the Answers in Genesis website wrote in about the booklet, “I wanted to thank you for sending me the package of booklets for my office. I put them out yesterday and I saw at least one patient with the ‘Dinosaur’ one in her hand. At the end of the day, the young woman who ‘floats’ on our wing was reading the ‘Does God Exist?’ booklet. She commented, ‘This is really interesting!’ Her name is Laura. I already use the Focus on the Family pamphlets in my office but had never thought of using yours. I plan to keep them in stock. People really like having literature like this in the office and I get lots of comments on them and it opens up lots of avenues for conversation. Thank you again for your ministry and thoughtfulness. — Debbie E., Oregon” How nice… looking around I think more and more that Ken Ham and people like him are retarded, and deserve to go live on the moon.

Comments:

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Consigliere United States Posted on 05/28/2007 at 06:11 PM

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Oh and this:

Congratulations!

You have been awarded the TPM medal of distinction!...The fact that you progressed through this activity without being hit and biting only one bullet suggests that your beliefs about God are internally consistent and well thought out.

Thank God I’m a Country Boy!

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To die one’s self is a thing that must be easy, & light of consequence; but to lose a part of one’s self—well, we know how deep that pang goes, we who have suffered that disaster, received that wound which cannot heal.
Mark Twain- Letter to Will Bowen, 11/4/1888

timmeh United States Posted on 05/28/2007 at 06:17 PM

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So what he is saying is, there was no point to the flood.

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Confucius says, Learning without thought is labor lost; thought without learning is perilous.

Les United States Posted on 05/28/2007 at 11:14 PM

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Hermit’s comments are deja vu all over again. Some tired nonsense, different spewer.

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Agnostics are just atheists without balls. - Stephen Colbert

LuckyJohn19 Australia Posted on 05/29/2007 at 01:19 AM

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There was only one reason for the flood and that was to satisfy the sadistic desires of an immature yet psychotic delusion.

I know Hermit won’t be back (I am pleased to report she’s in the minority in Oz) but I really wanted to ask her: If it was found there was no god would you suddenly go about raping and pillaging or would you remain a good person?
In other words, are you only a good person because there’s a threat of hell hanging over your head or do you have deeper convictions or thought-out moral values, as I have.

Mine were pretty simple to work out - I just thought about how I’d prefer to be treated and did it. There was no Goat Herders’ Guide to the Galaxy I had to plough through and maybe, heaven forbid, mis-interpret; I didn’t have to mix with a buncha wowsers contemplating esoteric stuff in the vicinity of the navel; didn’t even have to pay a buncha scammers or enter into any of their delusions.
No, I just thought about it one night over a coupla beers and Voila!
Haven’t been to gaol since.

Oh, I took the Battleground God test; didn’t fare as well as I’d like but I won’t go to hell for it, will I?  LOL

How did you do compared to other people?
•376653 people have completed this activity to date.
•You suffered 1 direct hit and bit 1 bullet.
•This compares with the average player of this activity to date who takes 1.39 hits and bites 1.11 bullets.
•45.74% of the people who have completed this activity, like you, took very little damage and were awarded the TPM Medal of Distinction.
•7.69% of the people who have completed this activity emerged unscathed with the TPM Medal of Honour

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I’ve discovered that it all boils down to brain wiring: your brain is wired to worship magic or it isn’t, either it’s wired to utilize logic or it isn’t, either it’s analytical of myths or it isn’t.

Kerry Green Australia Posted on 05/29/2007 at 01:53 AM

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The purpose of the flood was to do exactly what it did do - as stated in the Scriptures.

I think I have amply demonstrated that your alleged criticisms of the Bible are based on your own ignorance and lack of understanding.

Your arguments are easily countered; I would think it was embarrassing to make the mistakes and show the lack of knowledge that some of you have in the last few pages.

There are many very intelligent people who are Christians - obviously, then, your criticisms are invalid, illogical, and ill-conceived.

Sadie Jane United States Posted on 05/29/2007 at 02:57 AM

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Your arguments are easily countered

So you say. Let’s see you actually counter them—without using the Bible as your primary testimonial.

There are many very intelligent people who are Christians - obviously, then, your criticisms are invalid, illogical, and ill-conceived.

And the Non-Sequitor Award for the night goes to…Kerry Green!

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Thinking is the best way to travel.

timmeh United States Posted on 05/29/2007 at 03:11 AM

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So god flooded the earth to fix it’s mistake? From the book of genesis:  5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Now I’m no god, but I could do a better job than IT did. I also wouldn’t blame my creation for my mistakes.
And by the way I’m still waiting for someone to stone me to death for working on the sabbath.

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Confucius says, Learning without thought is labor lost; thought without learning is perilous.

Kerry Green Australia Posted on 05/29/2007 at 03:19 AM

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Let’s see you actually counter them—without using the Bible as your primary testimonial

You’ve just come in, have you?  Read back a bit.  The arguments are about supposed contradictions in the Bible.  A bit hard to address that without refering to what the Bible actually says, you see.  But don’t feel bad, your answer is no sillier than all the others.

And then gentlemen say things like “same old nonsense, different Bible thumper” as though that proves something.  Considering the arguments put up about the Bible have been ridiculous, and given that people concede other Christians have come here and already explained the answers to your silly arguments, it is becoming obvious that some of you good people have a learning disability.

Well, its been fun, folks.  smile

Actually, I’d like to ask for permission to quote some of your statements in my next book, would that be ok?

timmeh United States Posted on 05/29/2007 at 03:38 AM

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I think what they mean is find some outside proof for what is written in the bible. That way you can justify what the bible says. The problem is we get sick of the only reference being the bible. If I use the book of the Subgenius to justify the book of the Subgenius will you also treat it as fact? Hell unlike jesus there are contemporaries of “Bob” that have made claims to have meet him. “Bob” is at least from cities that were known to exist during his time. Nazareth was a grave site in “jesus’s” day and we all know jews didn’t build cities where they buried their dead.

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Confucius says, Learning without thought is labor lost; thought without learning is perilous.

timmeh United States Posted on 05/29/2007 at 03:42 AM

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did’t mean from I meant visited

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Confucius says, Learning without thought is labor lost; thought without learning is perilous.

Sadie Jane United States Posted on 05/29/2007 at 03:50 AM

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The arguments are about supposed contradictions in the Bible.

Which, naturally, were originally based on your claim that the Bible is infallible (burden of proof’s still on you, buddy). Hey, speaking of biblical contraditions, have you seen this?  You wanna try your hand at addressing these findings? Oh wait—just the same “silly arguments,“ eh?

And then gentlemen say things like “same old nonsense, different Bible thumper” as though that proves something.  Considering the arguments put up about the Bible have been ridiculous, and given that people concede other Christians have come here and already explained the answers to your silly arguments, it is becoming obvious that some of you good people have a learning disability.

LOL

To the best of my knowledge, no one has conceded anything resembling what you appear to be suggesting. What’s glarringly obvious at this point is that your argumentation skills are egregiously sophomoric and that your grasp of elementary logic is sorely wanting.

Actually, I’d like to ask for permission to quote some of your statements in my next book, would that be ok?

Well, I don’t know—logic and rationality are antithetical to blind faith, you know. The possibility that some of your readership might develop critical thinking skills is real. Do you really want to take that risk?

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Thinking is the best way to travel.

timmeh United States Posted on 05/29/2007 at 03:57 AM

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You don’t have to ask to use our quotes. You just have to site your sources. Any basic English class teaches that.

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Confucius says, Learning without thought is labor lost; thought without learning is perilous.

zilch Austria Posted on 05/29/2007 at 05:00 AM

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Les, I have to disagree with you about Kerry Green- he’s not just another Bible thumper.  Instead of dressing up his argument with appeals to logic or evidence of dinosaurs living with cavemen, he cut to the chase and hit us with the bare bones fundie argument, to wit:

1) the Bible is true because it says it’s true.

2) your arguments are wrong because they’re silly.

You have to admire that kind of clarity.

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timmeh United States Posted on 05/29/2007 at 05:35 AM

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The book of the Subgenius is true because it’s says it’s true, so that means J.R. “Bob” Dobbs was right.

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Confucius says, Learning without thought is labor lost; thought without learning is perilous.

timmeh United States Posted on 05/29/2007 at 05:37 AM

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In the name of full disclosure, I am pink to “Bob”.

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Confucius says, Learning without thought is labor lost; thought without learning is perilous.

zilch Austria Posted on 05/29/2007 at 05:41 AM

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Timmeh- and don’t forget that Bob offers us slack.  That’s better than grace any day.  Not only that, but who cares about harps and fluffy clouds, when we can have eternal sex on Planet X?

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You were born.  And so you’re free.  So happy birthday.
- Laurie Anderson

timmeh United States Posted on 05/29/2007 at 05:47 AM

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I may just send my $30 after all.

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Confucius says, Learning without thought is labor lost; thought without learning is perilous.

timmeh United States Posted on 05/29/2007 at 05:51 AM

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I mean what if I’m wrong. What if I am a descendant of the yeti? If I don’t follow their teachings I may be enslaved on X-day.

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Confucius says, Learning without thought is labor lost; thought without learning is perilous.

Les United States Posted on 05/29/2007 at 07:08 AM

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I just checked out Mr. Hermit Green’s website and it’s very interesting indeed. I was particularly interested in his attempt to explain why Jesus doesn’t heal amputees:

Firstly, I mus ask, “Who says God doesn’t heal amputees?“ I can say that I know of no stories of God healing amputees in recent times, but that does not mean that it cannot, and could not, happen.

Our Bible tells us that God has performed miracles. I have no problem with that. I read Genesis 1 - 3 quite literally. I believe that the infinite, almighty God can bring a universe into being with the power of His words. Having accepted that, I am not challenged by the idea that God cannot heal an amputee, or anyone else with a physical infirmity.

Further, our Bible tells us that Jesus performed many public miracles during His ministry on earth. I have no problem with that, either. After all, Jesus is the Creator.

However, I do not believe that Jesus is doing those sorts of miracles, in any numbers, today.

I think it’s the first time I’ve seen a Christian using the “God didn’t do it” line of argument. But it continues from there…

As I said, Jesus can do miracles. During His ministry on earth, He did do miracles. The purpose was to give irrefutable evidence to the Jewish people that He was their promised Messiah. The Jews rejected Him. Now don’t get me wrong, that is not an indictment or a judgement of them - in fact, it was necessary for them to reject Him, so that He would be crucified. In His death, He paid for the sins of the world. Had that not happened, there would have been salvation for no-one.

Never-the-less, Jesus said that He had come to them, performing miracles, and they rejected Him. Shortly after his resurrection He was again offered to the Jewish people as their Messiah, and once again they rejected Him.

So why is Jesus not doing miracles today? Because after the Jewish people, having witnessed all of these wonderful miracles, rejected Him, He turned away from them. The Jewish people have been set aside (not permanently), and salvation has come directly to the Gentiles (all non-Jewish peoples).

God has made the indictment of the Jews, that having seen all the signs and wonders, they did not believe, but now Gentile people who have seen no signs and wonders, will accept Him by faith. And that is exactly what is happening today.

In short, it’s the Jew’s fault that Jesus refuses to heal the amputees. Blaming the Jews to still be popular with some Christians it seems.

The site is also informative in terms of what particular flavor of Christian Mr. Hermit is. Turns out he’s a dispensationalist.

I’ll give Mr. Hermit credit, however, for railing against the charismatic preachers that claim to be able to heal.

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Agnostics are just atheists without balls. - Stephen Colbert

Last_Hussar Great Britain (UK) Posted on 05/29/2007 at 08:49 AM

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It’s a funny old world eh- Hitler is in Heaven, and the Good Samaritain is in Hell.

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To be human is to look at the vast, cold, uncaring universe, and to say “We stand alone, together.“

nowiser United States Posted on 05/29/2007 at 09:39 AM

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Jesus doesn’t heal amputees because he wants everyone to be ‘hoppy.‘

*rimshot*

I know, I know.  I’m a b a a a a a d person.

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It vexes me when they would constrain science by the authority of the Scriptures, and yet do not consider themselves bound to answer reason and experiment—Galileo

elwedriddsche United States Posted on 05/29/2007 at 10:00 AM

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Are we just about done feeding the troll? wink

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Science is answers that must always be questioned.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.
Religion is answers that must never be questioned.
Politics is answers that lobbyists pay for.

zilch Austria Posted on 05/29/2007 at 11:00 AM

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nowiser, let’s see how hoppy you are after the Children of Zogg zap off both your hoppers with their negarays…

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You were born.  And so you’re free.  So happy birthday.
- Laurie Anderson

Michael Peacock United States Posted on 05/29/2007 at 11:49 AM

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Hey, speaking of biblical contraditions, have you seen this?  You wanna try your hand at addressing these findings? Oh wait—just the same “silly arguments,” eh?

First - Nice link, Sadie.  Bet I’m not the first to suggest you have nice links smile

I am completely unashamed to admit that I just arrived at this particular thread. And lo - I find the gang batting around another blindered dogmatist [thank you, internet thesauri] much as my cat mangles nip toys.  In a way, I feel bad for these drive-by trolls: we try to engage them with the sunshine of our logic, and they keep turning to stone right before our eyes.  Wait.  I’m over it now.

I just checked out Mr. Hermit Green’s website and it’s very interesting indeed.

OK - you’ve got nice links too, Les. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. There’s nothing so refreshing to one’s rationalist sensibilities than to wade through the writings of an antirationalist.  But to find that he actually takes the time to writeback to spammers, and clearly states that he doesn’t want to give his partner multiple orgasms?  Priceless.

As for the original post, you have to give Ken Ham some points for consistency over the years.  Wacky, though he may be, he nevertheless sticks to his story. Interestingly, if you pop the word “story” into any of those internet thesauri I love so much, words like fiction, fable, and myth pop out.  So while scientists and religious folks mostly yell past each other, I think there’s a some small bit of common ground to be had from this - fiction is a poor rationale for social policy.

Of science and religion, only science offers the prospect of correcting itself whenever it confronts fictional accounts of testable natural phenomena.  Religion can’t, without also admitting that prior divinely inspired dogma was mistaken.  Don’t bother trying to convince a closed mind like Hermit Green of that, however.

Are we just about done feeding the troll?

Elwed - they’re never full.

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My Name is Michael - Brother Neutron Bomb of Uncanny Honesty - Peacock, and I write at The Smug Baldy Speaks

elwedriddsche United States Posted on 05/29/2007 at 12:12 PM

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Elwed - they’re never full.

Yes, they are—they’re full of it.

I’m still not sure what argument or arguments this is supposed to be all about. I got the impression that there’s an exercise in theo(il)logical cherry-picking in progress, but it’s not like I care about that. Unless the existence of the Christian god passes the laugh test, why would I waste time debating the structural integrity of a house of cards straddling a fault line?

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Science is answers that must always be questioned.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.
Religion is answers that must never be questioned.
Politics is answers that lobbyists pay for.

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