Just stopping in to say hello and to congratulate you on your recent nomination at the BoB Weblog Awards 2004.

http://www.blogmechanics.com/bob

I’m just speechless.  How on earth can this man ever be taken as an unbiased judge ever again?

I’m just stumped.  I’m trying to figure out how a belief in God or a lack of belief for that matter would preclude or enhance one’s impartiality during a civil or criminal matter and I got nothing.

Regards,

This looks like a good place for a partial re-post…

Only blind sheep would submit to such tyranny.
I hope this judge doesn’t come and stone me for working on Sunday!

“The Ten Commandments”

1. You shall have no other gods before me.

a) Whoever has served other gods shall be stoned to death.

If there is found among you, within any of your towns which the LORD your God gives you, a man or woman who does what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, in transgressing his covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshipped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have forbidden, and it is told you and you hear of it; then you shall inquire diligently, and if it is true and certain that such an abominable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring forth to your gates that man or woman who has done this evil thing, and you shall stone that man or woman to death with stones. (Deut. 17:2-5)

b) If someone tries to entice you to serve other gods, you shall stone him to death.

If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known, some of the gods of the peoples that are round about you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him; but you shall kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. (Deut. 13:6-10)

c) If you hear that someone has drawn others out of the city to serve other gods, you shall investigate. If it is true you shall put them to the sword.

If you hear in one of your cities, which the LORD your God gives you to dwell there, that certain base fellows have gone out among you and have drawn away the inhabitants of the city, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, then you shall inquire and make search and ask diligently; and behold, if it be true and certain that such an abominable thing has been done among you, you shall surely put the inhabitants of that city to the sword, destroying it utterly, all who are in it and its cattle, with the edge of the sword. (Deut. 13:12-15)

d) He who does not believe will be condemned.

He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. (Mark 16:16)

2. You shall not make any graven images or any likeness of anything in heaven.

a) Sorry artists and sculpters, you’re cursed.

Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image. (Deut. 27:15)

b) Mediums and wizards shall be stoned to death.

A man or a woman who is a medium or a wizard shall be put to death; they shall be stoned with stones, their blood shall be upon them.�? (Lev. 20:27)

c) You shall not permit a sorceress to live.

You shall not permit a sorceress to live. (Ex. 22:18)

3. You shall not take the name of God in vain.

a) Blasphemers shall be stoned to death.

He who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him; the sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death. (Lev. 24:16)

b) Blasphemers will not be forgiven in the age to come.

Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. (Matt. 12:31-32)

4. Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.

a) Working on the Sabbath is punishable by death.

Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall be put to death. (Ex. 31:15)

b) Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a holy sabbath of solemn rest to the LORD; whoever does any work on it shall be put to death; (Ex. 35:2)

5. Honor your father and mother.

a) Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.

Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death. (Ex. 21:15)

b) Whoever curses his father or mother shall be put to death.

Whoever curses his father or his mother shall be put to death. (Ex. 21:17)

For every one who curses his father or his mother shall be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother, his blood is upon him. (Lev. 20:9)

c) A stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his parents may be stoned to death.

If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son, who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they chastise him, will not give heed to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall purge the evil from your midst; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. (Deut. 21:18-21)

6. You shall not kill.

a) If an ox with a violent history kills a man or a woman, its owner shall be put to death.

But if the ox has been accustomed to gore in the past, and its owner has been warned but has not kept it in, and it kills a man or a woman, the ox shall be stoned, and its owner also shall be put to death. (Ex. 21:29)

b) Killing a man gets the death penalty. 

He who kills a man shall be put to death. (Lev. 24:17)

c) Killing a beast gets the death penalty.

He who kills a beast shall make it good, life for life. (Lev. 24:18)

d) A murderer may be put to death by an avenger.

But if he struck him down with an instrument of iron, so that he died, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death. And if he struck him down with a stone in the hand, by which a man may die, and he died, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death. Or if he struck him down with a weapon of wood in the hand, by which a man may die, and he died, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death. The avenger of blood shall himself put the murderer to death; when he meets him, he shall put him to death. And if he stabbed him from hatred, or hurled at him, lying in wait, so that he died, or in enmity struck him down with his hand, so that he died, then he who struck the blow shall be put to death; he is a murderer; the avenger of blood shall put the murderer to death, when he meets him. (Num. 35:16-21)

e) Anger and insults to your brother get the same penalty as killing — burning in hell!

You have heard that it was said to the men of old, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills shall be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be liable to the hell of fire. (Matt. 5:21-22)

7. You shall not commit adultery.

a) Adultery with a neighbor’s wife — both die.

If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death. (Lev. 20:10)

b) Sex with your father’s wife — both die.

The man who lies with his father’s wife has uncovered his father’s nakedness; both of them shall be put to death, their blood is upon them. (Lev. 20:11)

c) Sex with your daughter-in-law — both die.

If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall be put to death; they have committed incest, their blood is upon them. (Lev. 20:12)

d) Male homosexuality — both die.

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them. (Lev. 20:13)

e) Sex with your mother-in-law; both shall be burned to death.

If a man takes a wife and her mother also, it is wickedness; they shall be burned with fire, both he and they, that there may be no wickedness among you. (Lev. 20:14)

f) If a man charges his wife with non-chastity and if it proves true, she shall be stoned to death.

If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and then spurns her, and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings an evil name upon her, saying, ‘I took this woman, and when I came near her, I did not find in her the tokens of virginity,’ But if the thing is true, that the tokens of virginity were not found in the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has wrought folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father’s house; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you. (Deut. 22:13-21)

g) If a man has sex with the wife of another man, both shall die.

If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall purge the evil from Israel. (Deut. 22:22)

h) It is better to cut off one of your offending members than to for your whole body to be thrown in hell.

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell. (Matt. 5:27-30)

8. You shall not steal.

a) Whoever steals a man (kidnapping) shall be put do death.

Whoever steals a man, whether he sells him or is found in possession of him, shall be put to death. (Ex. 21:16)

b) Kidnapping and enslaving is punishable by death.

If a man is found stealing one of his brethren, the people of Israel, and if he treats him as a slave or sells him, then that thief shall die; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you. (Deut. 24:5)

9. You shall not bear false witness.
10. You shall not covet.

etc…

Man, this old god bastard sure likes to put “his children” to death doesn’t he? I would definitely be worried about getting a fair trial in front of a dickweed like this. 

You rock, Spocko.
BTW, congrats, Les!

Thanks shana,
Congrats, here too, Les!

Pop Tarts, you say “activist” like it’s a bad thing.

Oh. Wait. You’re using it like some of the conservatives, who are bound and determined to turn “activist” into a dirty word. Never mind that Jesus (whether it was one single person or a group of persons) was a social and political activist. Never mind that the word “idiot” originated from “one who is not involved in their government”.

I love Canada, and want to live there someday relatively soon...but I’m not emigrating until the religious extremists have been checked. I’m not just leaving the country and letting them have it! Every time something like this happens, I’ve got to push things back another month…

Is it just me or when the site went down due to “Bandwidth Exceeded” did we lose an article. I could swear there was something else here.

I love this:

a) Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.

Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death. (Ex. 21:15)

b) Whoever curses his father or mother shall be put to death.

Whoever curses his father or his mother shall be put to death. (Ex. 21:17)

For every one who curses his father or his mother shall be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother, his blood is upon him. (Lev. 20:9)

c) A stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his parents may be stoned to death.

followed immediately by:

6. You shall not kill.

Man, there is a LOT of killing in the Bible.  Who said that people all ran around killing each other before God came along and told them to stop??

GM- Yes, I love the OT too- it’s more fun than shooting monkeys in a barrel…

The people found guilty must be loving it.  Grounds for appeal I can’t get a fair trial. The judge wants to put me to death.  he’s not following the laws of the U.S. he follows “Gods Law” never pay alimony again my wife was unfaithful “put her to death”.  I hope every case he presides over is appealed.

This lunatic Judge like Roy Moore should without question be disbarred, disrobed, defrocked, lubed up and thrown into the nearest jail where no doubt several “Sinners” have been committed by his hand.

Every single case this nutjob and Roy Moore has ever presided over should be given consideration of retrial.

They all also should be given a basic high school education as to where the Laws of this land come from which has ZERO to do with any Ten Commandments.

They come from “The Two Treatises of Government” and Roman Senate.

While they are at it they might also want to explain to these nutjobs that the ten Commandments dont come from some god either, they come entirely from Ancient Kemet.

“The 42 Admonitions of Ma’at”

http://anu-world.com/id9.html

Nunya,

Moore was disbarred. However, none of the cases Moore presided over nor any of this judge’s cases are in any danger of being overturned on the grounds of bias.  The standard is much higher.  See Scalia’s Memorandum issued last year on the request that he recuse himself from the Cheney case. 

Regards,

Someone whom is this screwed up in the head has no business judging another human being period.

You can not sit there and honestly tell me someone like this will not let their religious convictions bias their decision and lead to rulings based on “Faith” and not factual evidence. This man is delusional.

If he were wearing Hammurabi’s code would people be freaking out as much?  Perhaps if wore the Ten Commandments in a tasteful shade of periwinkle (which looks good with black) it would have gone over much better.  It’s all about the psychology of color.  It’s probably the first two commandments that freak people out the most.

Quick point of clarification.  The sixth commandment is actually you shall not murder.

H7523
רצח
râtsach
raw-tsakh’
A primitive root; properly to dash in pieces, that is, kill (a human being), especially to murder: - put to death, kill, (man-) slay (-er), murder (-er).

The specific hebrew word referenced in that commandment is rarely used in the old testament in comparison to all the other forms of killing and slaughter most of you are referencing.  Here is a list of the other contexts it may be found in with the english equivalent in bold.

Num 35:6 And among the cities which ye shall give unto the Levites there shall be six cities for refuge, which ye shall appoint for the manslayer, that he may flee thither: and to them ye shall add forty and two cities.

Num 35:11-12 Then ye shall appoint you cities to be cities of refuge for you; that the slayer may flee thither, which killeth any person at unawares.  And they shall be unto you cities for refuge from the avenger; that the manslayer die not, until he stand before the congregation in judgment

Num 35:16-19 And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.  And if he smite him with throwing a stone, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.  Or if he smite him with an hand weapon of wood, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.  The revenger of blood himself shall slay the murderer: when he meeteth him, he shall slay him.

Num 35:21 Or in enmity smite him with his hand, that he die: he that smote him shall surely be put to death; for he is a murderer: the revenger of blood shall slay the murderer, when he meeteth him.

Num 35:25-28 And the congregation shall deliver the slayer out of the hand of the revenger of blood, and the congregation shall restore him to the city of his refuge, whither he was fled: and he shall abide in it unto the death of the high priest, which was anointed with the holy oil.  But if the slayer shall at any time come without the border of the city of his refuge, whither he was fled; And the revenger of blood find him without the borders of the city of his refuge, and the revenger of blood kill the slayer; he shall not be guilty of blood:  Because he should have remained in the city of his refuge until the death of the high priest: but after the death of the high priest the slayer shall return into the land of his possession.

Num 35:30-31 Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die.  Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death.

Deu 4:42 That the slayer might flee thither, which should kill his neighbour unawares, and hated him not in times past; and that fleeing unto one of these cities he might live:

Deu 19:3 Thou shalt prepare thee a way, and divide the coasts of thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee to inherit, into three parts, that every slayer may flee thither.  And this is the case of the slayer, which shall flee thither, that he may live: Whoso killeth his neighbour ignorantly, whom he hated not in time past;

Deu 19:6 Lest the avenger of the blood pursue the slayer, while his heart is hot, and overtake him, because the way is long, and slay him; whereas he was not worthy of death, inasmuch as he hated him not in time past.

Deu 22:26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:

Jos 20:3 That the slayer that killeth any person unawares and unwittingly may flee thither: and they shall be your refuge from the avenger of blood.

Jos 20:5-6 And if the avenger of blood pursue after him, then they shall not deliver the slayer up into his hand; because he smote his neighbour unwittingly, and hated him not beforetime.  And he shall dwell in that city, until he stand before the congregation for judgment, and until the death of the high priest that shall be in those days: then shall the slayer return, and come unto his own city, and unto his own house, unto the city from whence he fled.

Jos 21:13 Thus they gave to the children of Aaron the priest Hebron with her suburbs, to be a city of refuge for the slayer; and Libnah with her suburbs,

Jos 21:21 For they gave them Shechem with her suburbs in mount Ephraim, to be a city of refuge for the slayer; and Gezer with her suburbs,

Jos 21:27 And unto the children of Gershon, of the families of the Levites, out of the other half tribe of Manasseh they gave Golan in Bashan with her suburbs, to be a city of refuge for the slayer; and Beeshterah with her suburbs; two cities.

Jos 21:32 And out of the tribe of Naphtali, Kedesh in Galilee with her suburbs, to be a city of refuge for the slayer; and Hammothdor with her suburbs, and Kartan with her suburbs; three cities.

Jos 21:38 And out of the tribe of Gad, Ramoth in Gilead with her suburbs, to be a city of refuge for the slayer; and Mahanaim with her suburbs,

1Ki 21:19 And thou shalt speak unto him, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Hast thou killed, and also taken possession? And thou shalt speak unto him, saying, Thus saith the LORD, In the place where dogs licked the blood of Naboth shall dogs lick thy blood, even thine.

2Ki 6:32 But Elisha sat in his house, and the elders sat with him; and the king sent a man from before him: but ere the messenger came to him, he said to the elders, See ye how this son of a murderer hath sent to take away mine head? look, when the messenger cometh, shut the door, and hold him fast at the door: is not the sound of his master’s feet behind him?

Job 24:14 The murderer rising with the light killeth the poor and needy, and in the night is as a thief.

Psa 94:6 They slay the widow and the stranger, and murder the fatherless.

Isa 1:21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.

Jer 7:9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not;

Hos 4:2 By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood.

Hos 6:9 And as troops of robbers wait for a man, so the company of priests murder in the way by consent: for they commit lewdness.

I think there is a difference between killing and murdering, but I’m not posting to start a debate on the ten commandments.

An interesting thought I have is what is the extent judges and politicians should be allowed to flex their own right to free speech?  They are citizens as well not just property of the government.  I don’t approve of the judge’s decision to do that, but it seems to me he is expressing freedom of speech.  What if he had the ten commandments tattooed on his hands or arms?  Should he be punished for tattoos?

If he were wearing Hammurabi’s code would people be freaking out as much?

If there is the appearance of government supporting one particular brand of religion then yes folks should freak out and freak out loud.

kill != murder

yawn

An interesting thought I have is what is the extent judges and politicians should be allowed to flex their own right to free speech?

Not on my dime. When they are not being paid by my tax dollars they can do whatever they want. While they are working they should appear completely neutral to all notion of religion.

Is fairness such a difficult concept to comprehend?!

What if your Judge walked in the court wearing tinfoil hat with “The Call to Prayers” nicely embroidered in gold on his rob, which you hear from mineret across the M.E everyday?
They translate to:

Allah is great, Allah is great

I bear witness there is no deity but Allah

I bear witness that Muhammad (pbuh) is the Messenger of Allah

Hurry to the prayer

Hurry to the success

Prayer is in order

Prayer is in order

Allah is great, Allah is great

There is no deity but Allah

Spocko do you agree there is a difference between killing and murdering?  Your entire sixth point of your lovely long post has been proven out of context.  I could probably do similar with the other nine points, but that post has me bushed.

No, THEO, I do not think there is a difference.
If I kill you or if I murder you (or if I kill your dog for that matter) your precious god says I must be killed right back.

And since you are missing the original point of my post (you seem to be purposefully obtuse) I’ll restate it…
Your pathetic excuse for a god commands death for both sincerely sinister deeds as well as the most petty of trivial “offenses”. Luckily, our law is not based on this shit.

If the punishment for killing/murdering is something other than death then perhaps my selection could be considered “out of context”. So tell me what do you think the punishment for killing is? If you have another list of “quotes” from the Bible that explain this “commandment” then cough them up - they will only support my point anyway. This was the worst example you could have selected - not many people feel all that bad about killing killers (or muderers).

How could anyone feel comfortable standing before a fool judge who believes in this nonsense? I guess only that minority of Americans who believe the same way he does.

I wonder which version of the commandments this fool plastered on his robe?

Of course, talk about a set of “Ten Commandments” is insane anyway. There are no “Ten Commandments”. There are shitloads of commands in this nonsensical collection of scrawlings known as the “Bible” but to come up with the magical number of 10 takes a bit of finangling.

Sure, there is a list of dos and don’ts in Exodus 20 but the only way you can derive 10 out of this list is to ignore some rules and group others together. Bunk, I say. Then you have the Jews, the Protestants, and the Catholics incapable of agreeing what the 10 are exactly; each group lists them differently. The Jews start with “I am the lord thy god” (Exod 20:2) but the xtians skip that and go to “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” (Exod 20:3). The Catholics skip the graven images jive. Bogus! And what about after the alleged “10”? Just a few verses later you’ll find “An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee” (Exod 20:24). What the hell, this looks like another commandment to me. I guess we can just blow off this one. Tell me Theo - you keeping up your burnt offerings? How ‘bout all the goodies in Exodus 13 or 23; “You shall not favor a poor man in his lawsuit” (23:3) sounds like another fucking commandment here.

To top all this crap, once you reach Exodus 34 you get a set of “replacement” commandments because this Moses guy (another Sun story here; not a real person) goes and breaks the first set of stone tablets. Doh, oops, sorry. Hey god, can you whip up another batch of them thar commandment thingies? And god, being a good secretary, says unto Moses, “Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.” (Exod 34:1). But god was not a good secretary at all and came up with a completely different set of commandments after just stating that they would be the same. Fickle fucker!

The second “identical” set of commandments goes like this…

1. Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee: But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:

2. For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

3. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.

4. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib.

5. All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.

6. But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck.

7. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest.

8. And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest.

9. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.

10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother’s milk.

What the hell. This guy must have Alzheimer’s er somethin’! Can’t keep his own list of rules straight. What a maroon!
If the “Ten Commandments” are so important then why can’t they be listed simply and consistently without the slightest chance of confusion?

Care for some more “commandments"…

Sons that are gluttons and drunkards shall be stoned to death. (Deut 21:21)

Non-virginal brides shall be stoned to death. (Deut 22:21)

Homosexuals shall surely be put to death. (Lev 20:13)

Beat your children with rods. (Prov 23:14)

Women must keep their mouths shut and learn only from their husbands. (I Cor 14:34,35)

What a load of tripe!
Only a fool would consider any of this shit as the “word of god”. Where are the commandments against slavery, child abuse, rape, torture, spousal abuse, dictatorship, facism, republicanism? How about a commandment to love and have compassion for others no matter whose naughty bits they twiddle?

The concept of the “Ten Commandments” is nothing more than another tool of propaganda used to control “the sheep”.

Baa baa…

How about a commandment to love and have compassion for others no matter whose naughty bits they twiddle?

Spocko, you trying to tell us something????

If you mean - am I disgusted with your book of homophobia - then yes I’m saying something there.

PS. Mrs Spocko feels the same as I.

Originally posted by Spocko:
And since you are missing the original point of my post (you seem to be purposefully obtuse) I’ll restate it…
Your pathetic excuse for a god commands death for both sincerely sinister deeds as well as the most petty of trivial “offenses�?.

I got my discussions confused.  I was making this because i thought you were attacking some other idea that was actually being attacked on another board.  My post was more useful to fight the ignorant argument that war is bad and God commands us not to kill.  Don’t get me wrong war is bad, but God commands us not to murder.  Sorry for the misread.