Ha, made me look twice when I saw the title in my RSS aggregator.

It’s amazing to me that people like him get into such snits over things said on a blog.  Then (apparently) turns on comment moderation to… um… censor? comments, judging from this entry—this conversation is very disjointed, to say the least.

Eh, screw him anyway, the internet’s too big and life’s too short. 

Signed,
The other Ben

I think the problem that Ben from scattered words has is that he’s a little high-strung.  I can’t say that I’m a regular reader of his blog, I don’t find it particularly compelling.  However, I have looked at his writing once or twice and it struck me that he seems to always on the edge of an emotional breakdown.  To paraphrase a line from Falling Down Ben seems a little fragile and perhaps its best not to vex him to any degree or at all.  His fragility is the only reason that I can see for him taking the time and effort to find detractors on the internet and comment upon them. 

c.k.l.

I won’t go and judge that guy by what he says, altough his views seem a little strange to me, they’re valid in his own point of view. And since from what I’ve read, he questions his views every day, he will some time reach a point where he doesn’t struggle all the time, probably. Maybe after he accepts homosexuality.

Very open, actually, so open I don’t want to listen to them, because they’re gonna tell me about their sex life and deepest fears after about 5 minutes. Altough that bears some strange kind of fascination, I have to admit. And on the other hand, as soon as you start arguing and criticizing their actions (and maybe even a little bit of their worldview), they shut down the contact to you.

It’s an easy way out, bears no need for confrontation, and since those people don’t want to listen to many arguments, they can easily disdain everything I say that might challenge their views as hate and personal offense.

I feel sorry for those people, but not in a “come on, let’s look at this” way sorry. Rather in a “whatever, live your life” way sorry. I just can’t be bothered to solve their problems.

Oh, something in his favour: He seems to know that entry was written by Brock after all…

Hm, something’s amiss here, sorry. The second paragraph should start with…

I’ve met other people who seem the same at the first glance. (and then what’s there already)

I’m really sick of these fools that say you must believe in some god in order to know peace or love or joy! What a crock. I did not know true peace of mind until I let go of all the superstitious nonsense from my childhood. I guess some folks just never mature.

I’m really sick of these fools that say you must believe in some god in order to know peace or love or joy!

One of my pet peeves, as well…

Peace can come from many places. Some are more lasting than others. I find some peace in trying to be a good person. I don’t mean that in the christian, love everyone, sense. I just mean trying to do what good I can. What I believe works for me, but it might not work for you. My beliefs do not require everyone else on earth to beleive them. They don’t require anoyone else on earth to believe them. If more religous people would grasp that concept, I think a lot of us, myself included, would have a bit less to complain about lol.

Some good points there, Guido. When I said I felt kind of sorry for Ben I meant it in exactly the same sort of way you describe above. Very well put.

Spocko, that’s one of the common rationalizations used by some believers to make them feel better about those of us who don’t believe that seem to get along just fine without it. It’s also why they examine every thing you say for the slightest hint of anger or annoyance which they’ll magnify as an example of how unhappy and hateful we are and how much more at peace they think they are.

But again, not all believers do this nor do all Christians do this. Those who have actually found the peace that folks like Ben speak of rarely make a point of saying so and you can usually discern the truth by their statements and actions. People like ***Dave and JethricOne strike me as having found that inner peace so many others claim to hold.

ReaZ, that’s another good point and I agree whole heartedly. You’ll note that I don’t spent too much time complaining about Wiccans and there’s good reason for that, but that’ll be a new entry a little later.

It’s also why they examine every thing you say for the slightest hint of anger or annoyance

When apologetics fail, they often resort to pyschoanalyzing their opponent....

I checked out Scattered Words awhile back to see what the hoopla was about, and just didn’t find it very interesting.  He’s a 1-trick pony, and that trick is: being uptight about his sexuality. My reaction was, “Gee, the poor guy doesn’t seem very happy.  Hope he works it out somehow.  The End.”

It would probably be of great interest to people struggling with their sexuality, but not for, oh, anyone else.  I just hope anti-gay activists don’t seize on his blog as evidence of something or other.  He’s one guy - not normative for anyone else.

ReaZ
Your comment about just being a good person hit home with me!  I also feel my beliefs do not require anyone else to justify how I believe.  I care about others but I refuse to force myself on them.  I also find myself becoming concerned when someone claims that people I love and respect tell lies and display hate and anger when this is not true.  Try reading things with a clear eye and head not distorting it because it doesn’t suit your beliefs or theories.  That is my only advice to these people.

I for one am glad that Ben found religion.  Reading through his blog I don’t he think he has the mental or emotional capacity to confront his displaced anger and inner conflict.  Without a deity to dump all of this on he may very well have ended up in the clock tower.  Maybe later in his life when he comes to terms with himself he will be emotionally mature enough to dump the security blanket or at least be able to experience the true peace and happiness that other believers have found in just being oneself.

The road to true self acceptance is a difficult one and many would rather turn to religion than face themselves in the mirror.  My experience is, that those who come to terms with themselves experience peace with just about anything.  Whether it be religion or atheism.

captcha = ‘terms’ Les is loading the keywords again.

This isn’t a comment on the post itself, although it pertains to it. All I wanted to say, publically, was that I really do enjoy this site. Not everything is of interest to me, I don’t often comment, and I haven’t read every little thing that’s been written...but I linked and e-mailed Les a little while back because my instinct and my first impression, despite the ‘evil bastard’ part of the name, was that this was a place where issues like this one might be discussed in a frank and open-minded fashion, without resorting to pointless name-calling or I-am-RIGHT-and-fuck-anyone-who-disagrees ranting. With the benefit of hindsight and some extra time spent reading this site and chasing various links, I find myself a little proud of my instinct, and a little proud to be a member here.

Oh, and I like videogames.

I sort of addressed the issue at stake here the last time Scattered Words came up. I honestly wouldn’t have even bothered commenting as Les did. I’ve read Scattered Words, and while I feel some sympathy for the guy, he strikes me as the kind of person that isn’t in an emotional place that’s receptive to reasoned argument. I hope and believe that he’ll come to terms with himself at some point. If and when he does, I may post there. Otherwise, it’s a waste of my already-calloused fingertips.

The part of Les’s post that I most agree with is the mention of hate. I find myself diametrically opposed to a large percentage of what Ben types, and were I to comment, my opinion would reflect that. But I don’t hate him. Life’s too short and there are things that are far more important than one man’s insecure ego-trip. People are dying out there. Hell, if you’re up on the news, children are dying out there. That’s a real horror, and one guy’s confusion about his sexuality and spirituality sort of pales in comparison.

I think that if he dislikes your blog, that much that he should simply not read it.  The same works in reverse.  Personally, I think Freedom of Religion includes Freedom FROM Religion for those that want it.  But it also means that I’ll respect others right to their religion provided it doesn’t push on my freedom from religion.

I would like to clear up a few of things concerning Scattered Words. Ben (or official keepers of his opinions) of Scattered Words makes it seem that I fashioned an entry about his site because I was angry that he banned me from commenting. It all began when I followed a link that Les had posted to a site called Fifteen Minutes, where the author of that site had mentioned Stupid Evil Bastard as interesting with the disclaimer that it was not a “family friendly�? site. At Fifteen Minutes I followed a favorite reads link of his to a Blog called Scattered Words. After reading Scattered Words and being affected negatively by what I read there, I posted a comment to Fifteen Minutes. In the comment I pointed out that subject matter at SEB might be awkward for children and that they probably wouldn’t find it interesting to begin with and that I was more concerned that children are exposed to Christian messages of hate and intolerance by people who profess to be concerned with their mental and physical well being. I used Scattered Words as an example of a site that pretends to be positive and uplifting, yet contains harmful and hateful messages.

Ben at Scattered Words noticed my comment at Fifteen Minutes and discussed it in an entry at his Blog. Then a week or so later I mentioned Scattered Words in two comments I made at SEB (Religious Email Spam - May 15, 2004) saying “This guy is a suicide waiting to happen and he has “friends�? who are encouraging his self-loathing and ultimate demise. Any way you look at it; a part of him is likely to die.�? To be fair I included a link to Ben’s site in my comment. Ben then made another entry at his Blog titled “Suicide Waiting To Happen�? to bring attention to my comment at SEB.

Nearly as soon as I had noticed Ben’s Blog, I had begun to comment there. I wanted to offer alternative viewpoints and began with civility utmost in my mind, even though the anti-gay, anti-human messages Ben offered left me feeling angry and insulted. As often happens when commenters have extremely differing points of view, the general tone of the comments began to change. After dozens of comments by me, at one point in his Blog, Ben remarked: “I just wish that sometimes, you all’d give me the same grace and consideration you give yourselves�?. My response was “You really should try that yourself Ben: It might cause this blog to be less infamous. Ben’s response to that: “Brock can now consider himself banned from the comments�?

Later, he un-banned me but I no longer wanted to communicate with him that way. I have yet to leave another comment. Still Ben seems to believe that I have a personal vendetta against him, or that is his way of saving face with his readers. So THAT is what it’s all about then; he might like them to think. Never mind that Brock might feel a compulsion to discuss the issues of homosexuality and religion and Blogs that speak against homosexuality. It’s all about Brock feeling bitter because he was banned….yeah, right.

Two months later I made my only entry partly concerning Scattered Words (Thoughts on Blogging, The Incredible Hulk And Poorly Scattered Words - August 9, 2004) as Guest Bastard at SEB and I mentioned no names, simply criticizing the site itself. I feel no remorse for what I said then because to me the messages Scattered Words holds are personally demeaning so I can do nothing better than to call out the disseminator of these hurtful anti-gay pro-macho bits of psychotic vitriol. The Ex-Gay movement is being forwarded by Ben through Scattered Words and he is begging for some feedback. Make no mistake that even though he is saying otherwise; Ben craves the attention. Still, I have not and will not give him the carefully constructed, essentially affirming support his Blog obviously requires. The internet is a large and varied source of information and opinion and Ben only controls one chapter of the Book of Blogs. I chose in my entry to give information other than what he manages to offer. I have made other entries at SEB and they them have not dealt with homosexuality and the Ex-Gay movement. I’m able (unlike Ben, apparently) to talk about many other things.

I see Scattered Words as mostly harmful, primarily serving one man’s selfish and immature desire to demean an entire segment of society. If I had never commented there, this is still a site I would have written a critical entry about. You can count on that being the truth.

That’s essentially the message I got from your post in the first instance, Brock. Maybe not in that kind of detail, but the sentiment was there. I didn’t think you were particuarly hateful in any way, and I certainly don’t think you have anything to clear up or a need to defend yourself. Not only did that post make a valid point that needs no defending, it also introduced the readers of SEB to the world of hilarity that is Hulk’s blog. Two birds with one stone, Brock. Stand tall and proud.

One of these days, I’m going to put all of my thoughts on this in a huge essay. Me? I’m kind of a “Believer who has no idea what he believes in anymore"… I just know I have always despised organized religion.

If a person’s philosophy was a mathematical formula, then “God exists” is a “given” in a religious person’s mind. That’s it, do not pass “go”.  With an atheist or agnostic, it isn’t.

And that’s where the impass begins.

The religious are filled with dread and fear when it comes to atheists… and can you blame them? The Bible is filled with horror stories with what happens to anyone who dares question the “God of Love®”. Take away that “given” and the house of cards fall apart.

On the other hand, I really feel for atheists, because they have to know the bible better than most religious folks in order to point out all of the glaring errors and contradictions. They have to constantly defend themselves, when it really should be the other side that has the burden of proof.

We, as a society know slavery is wrong.
We, as a society know there’s nothing wrong with gays.
We, as a society know abortion is a sad & necessary medical procedure. (If us guys got pregnant, there wouldn’t be a debate).

These values are in direct conflict with the teachings of the Church, an archaic institution following an outdated manual.

I just know for a fact that the church is dead wrong.  That’s about as far as I go with any certainty.

Thanks Neon. I’m glad my intent came across. I think this subject matter is important to discuss, but maybe I’m one of too few who value such open-minded free-to-express-whatever-opinions-you-have discussions.

Ben obviously is afraid to discuss without maintaining control over the fate of the comment made. He says it’s because [he has] ”a lot of readers, specifically young people who are struggling and questioning. Quite honestly, they don’t need to see the dissent or the detraction. I can handle it, but I’ll do what I have to to protect them from it.”

He’s hit on precisely why I have a problem with his Blog. He wants to disseminate information that he values and feels comfortable passing on and he doesn’t care if some minds are too immature to responsibly decide what fears they will internalize. I detest the thought of him being proud to pass on his fucked-up attitudes to impressionable young minds.

I wish Ben would come here and explain why he wants a Blog that vilifies homosexuality, but I’m certain he doesn’t have the balls to do that. He’s more secure in that mean-spirited Blog home he’s built for himself. He won’t respond directly, but safely from his controlled environment.

One thing he said, that I hope isn’t true, is that I’ve brought down the quality of Stupid Evil Bastard. That scares me more than anything he could have said because it’s the last thing I would want to be true.

There are a lot of religious folks out there that consider knowledge as something too dangerous to trust the faithful with and are oblivious to the irony of this attitude.

If what you say is true about Ben, it’s just another case in point.

One thing he said, that I hope isn’t true, is that I’ve brought down the quality of Stupid Evil Bastard. That scares me more than anything he could have said because it’s the last thing I would want to be true.

Nothing could be further from the truth.  You have contributed some well written, and well thought articles to this intellectual feedbag.  There’s a strange sense of pride among the bastards here and I’m sure you would have heard it from us first if there had been any wrong committed.  Keep up the good work!

I’ll second that, deadscot. I have enjoyed many an entry by the inimitable Brock! Keep on keepin’ on.

But again, not all believers do this nor do all Christians do this. Those who have actually found the peace that folks like Ben speak of rarely make a point of saying so and you can usually discern the truth by their statements and actions. People like ***Dave and JethricOne strike me as having found that inner peace so many others claim to hold.

Oh, great, thanks a lot, Les—that’s just the sort of comment that will get some Divine Testing tossed down on my shoulders.  Yeesh ...

See?  God’s already removing my ability to remember to put in blockquote tags!  There goes my inner peace ...

If that’s the worst that God throws your way then you’ll probably be OK. Your comments will be confusing, but you’ll be OK.

I actually went off and did exactly the opposite of what I said I was going to do in my post. Yup, I commented on Ben’s blog. I did so as a complete and utter neutral, and everyone ignored it. Go figure. next time I’ll swear.

Actually, scratch that. There won’t be a next time. I’m taking my own advice.