Before anyone asks I thought I’d mention that I posted this entry from LaoTzu because it strikes me as someone stretching their philosophical muscles a bit. Yes, I probably spotted the one or two minor issues in it that others will probably bring up, but it’s good exercise for the mind to encourage folks to write entries like the above. The topic it’s commenting on is a document I’ve come across in the past myself though I don’t recall if I blogged about it at the time so it may still be relevant.

It’s a spoof, a piece of satire, if I remember correctly. It’s been around for a long, long time. I remember a couple of threads about it in the Internet Infidels discussion board.

The link to the website is busted, there is a comma at the end, just thought I would let you know.

Being an atheist, this doesn’t upset me, make me angry, or anything else, it just makes me laugh.

You know, I thought the exact same thing whislt watching ‘The 700 Club’ last night. How about an atheist news network show like the 700 club and call it The 666 Club? Les would make a fine Atheist version of Pat Robertson.

Why not, they have tv shows for everything else, I actually think that would be pretty cool.

If that is a real site, the author has to be a moron.  The arguments follow absolutely no logic.  I can’t imagine the upbringing that produces such a mind.

And whether it is real or not, there are people out there that think like that.  Unfortunately, they are allowed to reproduce.

I liked the following part - the rest kinda scared me, even though I am far away from most of such nutjobs.

COMPUTERS SMARTER THAN ATHEISTS
Even though computers aren’t capable of rational thought and know nothing about morals, yet they have more sense than the most learned atheist. Case and point: The other day while working on a PC, I began deleting unwanted files. There was an html file that showed all of the TEN COMMANDMENTS. Since it was a duplicate file, I decided to delete it also. When I clicked “delete”, the usual message came on the screen that said, “Are you sure you want to send the ‘TEN COMMANDMETS’ to the Recycle bin?” The question struck me very deeply because of how it was worded and for a moment I hesitated to delete the file. After clicking “yes”, a message box came up on the screen that said an illegal act had been performed by a program. Now what atheist or heathen has sense enough to think as correctly as that unthinking computer. Atheists do not think it’s an illegal act to try to destroy the TEN COMMANDMENTS.

I’ve been there before. They polemic against gays is what scares me.

Notice also, that they list the commandment as “thou shalt not murder” rather than “thou shalt not kill” as you can kill in the name of god.

Scary that people actually believe this.

Haha, Ingolfson!  I didn’t get that far…

I can imagine the fun tech support would have with this guy.  You know, once they got over their surprize...he takes idiocy to a whole new level!

Notice also, that they list the commandment as “thou shalt not murder� rather than “thou shalt not kill� as you can kill in the name of god.

Scary that people actually believe this.

If you read their screed a bit further (I did, don’t know why), they openly state that their kind of government would execute all atheists. In fact, they say so several times, because we ain’t fit to live.

Must have taken some doing to talk away the less bloody parts of the bible which would frown a little on such behaviour, to come to such a conclusion. But then, a book thick and confused enough like the Bible can be made to say anything.

Didn’t you read the paper? We’re all the heathen spawn of satan, so its not murder, its justice in the name of God

Didn’t you read the paper? We’re all the heathen spawn of satan

My, you make that sound like thats a bad thing!

Though I really gotta go now. I have to collect all the smut on the internet. Since we atheists put it there (another of their fine statements), its only fair that we collect it back as well.

Hey don’t knock that article.  I only deny God because I’m the instrument of Satan!  How can one not see divine majesty in the perfection of the world.  All those people in Africa, Asia, and South America starving, all the volcanoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, forest fires, flash floods, etc, etc.  How can a system that runs so well be the result of anything but God?

Hey, what’d I miss?  I was out smoking crack with Satan.

“Are you sure you want to send the ‘TEN COMMANDMETS’ to the Recycle bin?�

Of course it was an illegal operation.  It’s not really deleted in recycle bin, and can be easily retrieved.  That’s why you -DEL to actually delete it.

And if it was a file named “The Devil”, he’d probably gotten wood over the message.

Now what atheist or heathen has sense enough to think as correctly as that unthinking computer.

Notice also, that they list the commandment as “thou shalt not murder� rather than “thou shalt not kill� as you can kill in the name of god.

Scary that people actually believe this.

Notice also, that they list the commandment as “thou shalt not murder� rather than “thou shalt not kill� as you can kill in the name of god.

Scary that people actually believe this.

Hey, don’t get too depressed. A few centuries ago, that was the accepted, commonplace outlook for most, if not all people. There’s been some progress even so.

That said, I am really fascinated by the idea if mankind evolves culturally as well as technologically. We obviously had many drawbacks where civilization returned to earlier and in my opinion more crude and hateful practices (for example the Roman empire which was pretty ‘secular’ (in allowing conquered people their own religions) gave way to the religious wars of later centuries. The enlightened culture of the turn-of-the-century turned into fascism and communist dictatorships.

So do we, in some incremental way, improve, or do we only jump up and down in place, with better gadgets all to show for it? What you think?

Notice also, that they list the commandment as “thou shalt not murder� rather than “thou shalt not kill� as you can kill in the name of god.

Scary that people actually believe this.

Actually, the original translation of the commandments does say ‘murder’ not kill.  Even back then, they knew the political neccessity for killing undesirables.  Look at all the cities that were virtually wiped out “by god” because they didn’t want to give up their city to gods children and worse, didn’t say “You mean we’ve been wrong all this time?  I’m sorry.  God is great.”

The old testament is pretty much a story of genocide to get a home for the followers of God.

Like Mr Clemmons said: “ God, so atrocious in the Old Testament, so attractive in the New--the Jekyl and Hyde of sacred romance.”

I would love to hear a Christian explain why the ten commandments are such a wonder of God when they are nothing but common sense of the time and the majority of the OT is filled with such inhuman cruelty.  Which God do they believe in, or is it just the Hippy kid Jesus that they beleive in and simply don’t talk about the abusive father like so many other dysfunctional families?

So do we, in some incremental way, improve, or do we only jump up and down in place, with better gadgets all to show for it? What you think?

A good question, I agree!

I think a lot of things are at work--culture is constantly being changed and conserved simultaneously, as people respond to outside influences and inside desires. So it’s hard to say.  But my guess is that we mostly hop around, but the hopping is punctuated with a few great improvements (which are often then lost!).  Also, I guess it depends on what you mean by improvements.

I mean, the Zuni gave women higher status than maybe even in modern ‘western’ cultures, but their culture is mostly gone now.  Genocide happens and has happened so many times, even in spite of our ‘human rights’.  Seems to me that we make a lot of ‘progress’ only to lose it all again in a dark age or war, and then we build it all back up again.  Personally, I think a lot of this cycle could be demolished if people stopped looking for inherent meaning and rules (like the current ‘rights’) and instead made those things for themselves, but I’m just being a crazy idealist right now.

Notice also, that they list the commandment as “thou shalt not murder� rather than “thou shalt not kill� as you can kill in the name of god.

Actually, the original translation of the commandments does say ‘murder’ not kill.  Even back then, they knew the political neccessity for killing undesirables.

I hate to rain in on the parade, but these comments are as overreaching as True Believer fare.

I hate to rain in on the parade, but these comments are as overreaching as True Believer fare.

Sorry, elwed, but I don’t get your point. Do you mean that we are being too harsh and judgmental?

At least in the case of the people behind the site that started this thread (always assuming that it is not a hoax*), we are certainly not overreaching. As I stated, they call repeatedly for the execution of atheists simply for being atheists. Or, for that matter, for any child disrespectful of his parents.

*I looked up the site ID on whois. It is registered in exactly the name of the organization they claim to be on the site. Most hoaxes stop before that level.

Do you mean that we are being too harsh and judgmental?

What I mean is that the posters I quoted read a motivation into the original commandment that stretches credulity. Not that it hasn’t been tried successfully, alas.

Im actually reading this paper right now. While I find this funny for the most part, it also concerns me that people still have these beliefs. Granted, im completely for free speech, thought and expression (what they want to think is their own buisness), but when it starts affecting a persons rights and privelages as a human, thats when I would have to draw the line in the sand.

What scares me even more is the possibility of alot of what is being said in that paper would be taken literally. It scares me to think that the world would let itself go to such an extent that it would be nazi-germany all over again. Hitler was a christian and his reasoning for killing millions of jews and gays was to ‘purify the species’. After just being 3 pages into this, im beginning to find some eerie echoes of past ideas.

Atheists are not fit to be parents; they are not fit to be employed in any portion of any society; they are not fit to be any kind of leaders in any society, nor are they fit to serve in any area of public trust. Atheism makes every person who embraces it unfit for any good work.

Atheists are not even fit to live. They have forfeited the right to life by virtue of being unfit for any good thing.

Is it just me, or does that sound eerily familiar if you replace ‘atheist’ with ‘jewish’ or ‘gay’?

It truly sadens and scares me that these radical ideas still exist, much less the fact that they’re STILL accepted and practiced.

I hate to rain in on the parade, but these comments are as overreaching as True Believer fare.

Okay, maybe I was being a little harsh, but if you use the words “You shall not murder” instead of “You shall not kill” you are using a legal definition and what kind of killing is allowable becomes a legal issue and not a moral one.  The commandment doesn’t define what murder is, only that you shouldn’t do it.  So now you’ve taken what seemed like a specific prohibition and turned it into pretty much whatever you want to as long as you can define murder to go along with it.  This guy is taking the word ‘murder’ and shaping it to fit what he has already decided is right, but he’s preaching that he’s basing everything on the commandments and opinion doesn’t matter.  Using the bible you can make a case for ‘murder’ being killing in any form or just killing that isn’t done in the Lords name.

I think the ten commandments are a decent set of rules, but they weren’t written by God and “You shall not murder” is vague enough to be pretty much useless if someone like this can turn it into “God wants you to kill Athiests”

you are using a legal definition and what kind of killing is allowable becomes a legal issue and not a moral one

...

So now you’ve taken what seemed like a specific prohibition and turned it into pretty much whatever you want to as long as you can define murder to go along with it.

I strongly disagree.

At the core of this discussion is the moral question of whether or not the taking of a life can be justified in specific circumstances or if is not justfied, ever.

Unless you deny, say, the moral right to use lethal force in self-defense, you will have to either amend the ‘not kill’ version of the commandment with permissible exceptions to a general rule or lean towards the ‘not murder’ version.

So, what would a True Christian do?