Here’s a video that’ll disturb you. It shows the Answers in Genesis folks trying to counter what small kids have been taught about Evolution:
I especially love the woman who talks about how most Christians are perceived as ignorant and then proceeds to demonstrate said ignorance by saying that she prefers the Biblical explanation for life because it’s “just easier to explain to your children.”
It’s clear most of these kids barely grasp the concept of Creationism, let alone Evolution, but that doesn’t matter so long as these folks can convince them that the former is true and the latter is false. Some of them will grow up and change their minds as they’re better able to grasp the concepts and are exposed to the science, but for too many of them the nonsense they’re being fed now will stick with them throughout their lives.
And, yes, the rest of us will consider them ignorant.
I’d rather not believe in an afterlife full of morons than believe in walking zombies and the retarded idea that man is made of mud and women of his rib.
“A perk of Christianity is that you’re not afraid to die. Sucks for you Atheists. Have fun getting closer and closer to death.” is bullshit as well most soldiers of WW2 were Christian but were scared to death of dying and if you aren’t scared of death I suggest seeing a doctor or bombing a building of importance.
If we had never had religion we’d be at least 200 years more advanced than what we are and we have your blessed christianity to thank for that not to mention the crusades. Almost every war in existance was started because one person read a book differently from another it’s disgusting. So fine have your afterlife but as Islam and Judism believe in the same god and same concept of Heaven it’s probably already been destroyed by fanatics.
You’re kidding right? A lot of people I know are Christians. For many of them, they worry about going to Hell, or at least they worry about how God will judge them after they die.
They “worry” about death the same as Atheists, in the sense that they don’t want to check out before they are done with this life, or they’re worried about the pain that might be associated with death, or they worry about leaving their loved ones. The difference is that when an Atheist dies… that’s it. That is the end. Christians think that they go on. Christians tend to worry about the afterlife. Atheists, obviously… don’t. Sure we’re going to cease to exist, but considering the alternatives that religious people go on about… I think that’s a good thing… You guys don’t want us cluttering up Heaven and we don’t want to go there… everyone wins.
And the upside to knowing that there is nothing after death is a keener interest in making things better right here on Earth. If my immortal soul doesn’t matter, then it’s pretty important I get things right the first time. Many Christians are spending a lot of time and energy thinking about what God thinks of them and whether they’ve been good Christians, instead of trying to be good PEOPLE.
Fear of death is probably one of the two or three main reasons why religion was invented in the first place and why it continues to exist.
Another way to look at it is that….If the Atheist is right, what does the Christian lose by believing? HOWEVER, what if the Christian is right??? Think about it.
Oh my, Hotott! No one has ever hit us with Pascal’s Wager before!
Oh wait, yes they have. It’s a stupid argument that presents a false dichotomy. It assumes that the only alternative to atheism is belief in the Christian god conveniently forgetting that there are numerous other religions that propose different gods and even multiple gods that are just as likely to exist, and have just as much evidence suggesting they do, as the Christian god. In fact, when you consider the possibility of a near-infinite number of hypothetical gods the chances that the Christians are right in their belief that their god is the correct god is pretty small.
You can read up on the further objections and problems with Pascal’s Wager at the link I have provided. Assuming, of course, that you actually wanted to learn something and not just be a drive-by comment troll like so many other Christians tend to be.
What Les said, but I’ll add to it.
Even if all we had was Christianity or Atheism to chose from, Pascals Wager doesn’t work, because when you throw in the more annoying rules that Christians live by, the faith they have, the prayers they say, the things they do only because their God tells them to, not to mention the incredible intolerance that the religion has a tendency to instill in it’s followers, and then you ask me “What have I got to lose by believing?” I can only stare in incredulity.
One more thing to add to Pascal’s Wager. The Dalai Lama is one of the kindest most giving people ever born, puts Jesus to shame in my opinion, you’re telling me because he doesn’t believe in God he would have to burn in hell? Bullshit. Not that hell could be any worse than what we’ve done to the planet and each other. It’s a stupid concept made to make intolerance justifiable and once again shows the idiocy of man. If I am wrong fine I’d lose either way because Heaven full of you twats would be just as bad as burning forever in hell.
He’s a theocrat, trying to return Tibet to a theocratic dictatorship that routinely used tortue and mutilation as instruments of state.
How is that different to the lifestyle the Chinese impose on Tibet. They have every right to freedom just as the United States had a right to their freedom from Britain
Dude. The Dalai lama kept slaves.
“Until 1959, when the Dalai Lama last presided over Tibet, most of the arable land was still organized into religious or secular manorial estates worked by serfs. Even a writer like Pradyumna Karan, sympathetic to the old order, admits that “a great deal of real estate belonged to the monasteries, and most of them amassed great riches. . . . In addition, individual monks and lamas were able to accumulate great wealth through active participation in trade, commerce, and money lending.” (8) Drepung monastery was one of the biggest landowners in the world, with its 185 manors, 25,000 serfs, 300 great pastures, and 16,000 herdsmen. The wealth of the monasteries went to the higher-ranking lamas, many of them scions of aristocratic families, while most of the lower clergy were as poor as the peasant class from which they sprang. This class-determined economic inequality within the Tibetan clergy closely parallels that of the Christian clergy in medieval Europe.”
“Young Tibetan boys were regularly taken from their families and brought into the monasteries to be trained as monks. Once there, they became bonded for life. Tashì-Tsering, a monk, reports that it was common practice for peasant children to be sexually mistreated in the monasteries. He himself was a victim of repeated childhood rape not long after he was taken into the monastery at age nine. (12) The monastic estates also conscripted peasant children for lifelong servitude as domestics, dance performers, and soldiers.”
AND
“In 1953, the greater part of the rural population — some 700,000 of an estimated total population of 1,250,000 — were serfs. Tied to the land, they were allotted only a small parcel to grow their own food. Serfs and other peasants generally went without schooling or medical care. They spent most of their time laboring for the monasteries and individual high-ranking lamas, or for a secular aristocracy that numbered not more than 200 wealthy families. In effect, they were owned by their masters who told them what crops to grow and what animals to raise. They could not get married without the consent of their lord or lama. A serf might easily be separated from his family should the owner send him to work in a distant location. Serfs could be sold by their masters, or subjected to torture and death. (14) ”
http://www.swans.com/library/art9/mparen01.html
Many of the Tibetans welcomed the Chinese as liberators. Admittedly, the current Dalai lama was just a boy when the Chinese invaded, and it is unclear whether we might have liberated the Tibetans under his later rule. However, I personally do not think it likely. Don’t fall into the myth of the Dalai lama as being in any way “good” – other than perhaps at manipulating the sympathy of current world leaders. He was deposed, and that is a good thing.
Never said it was. Don’t see how that makes Tenzin Giatzo kind or giving. The enemy of my enemy is NOT my friend.
And anyway I doubt the Chinese kidnap young boys to act as monks and then sexually molest them.
Author: Hotott
Comment:
Another way to look at it is that….If the Atheist is right, what does the Christian lose by believing? HOWEVER, what if the Christian is right??? Think about it.
As a Christian, you’ve spent your whole life basing everything you do on the hope of going to the magical kingdom called heaven.(fantasy) That’s if you follow all is rules, believe and beg forgiveness and hope it’s enough to get you in. (cult) Your whole life was spent wanting more than what you already have. Believing is someone and something you have never seen.
As and Atheist, I live my life based on facts that has been proved by science. I try everyday to be a good person because it’s what I choose to do. Not because I’m looking for something better when I die! Everything I know and love is here on Earth…my family , friends and the beauty of Earth itself. I will take those memories with me when I go… WHY would I want or need anything more.
So If there is a heaven, and all you have to do to go is believe in God and do as he says and beg forgiveness ( no matter what you have done …murdered, raped, molested children etc..) and he will forgive you.
What does that say about the people in Heaven?
I sure as Hell wouldn’t want to spend time with those kind of people.
RAMEN!
Peace.
Child abuse at its best , child services should be called .
These people are propagating lies, and they are insane and must be stopped.
Author: transformer owl
Comment:
Most of the “Atheists” won’t read this because they’re afraid of the truth and are in denial or don’t care about their well-being at all. But whatever.
You have real PICTURES of GOD….HEAVEN or HELL?……..lets see them! Christians are the ones who are in denial because they’re afraid to accept responsibility for their lives and what they do.
I love the way every single one of you ignore the rather intelligent comment made by Dave. Just as all evolutionists are not completely the same, there exist several minorities within the christian church; all have their own viewpoints of evolution and science in general. This is a compilation of the worst examples of pro-christian behaviour, and as a christian i am stunned by their ignorance.
TheBjarke: We didn’t ignore it (at least I didn’t) but it was beside the point. No one here is arguing even close to the premise that ALL Christians are stupid evolution-deniers, so his reiterating that is neither here nor there.
On the other hand, his statement:
Is wrong (or at least misleading) It has everything to do with religion (if not Judeo-Christian myth specifically) Show me an Atheists who subscribes to Creationism. Religion is at the core of Creationism and it’s current fight against science. While it may be that all religious folk are not pro-Creationism, it IS true that virtually all pro-Creationists are religious. It is certainly verifiably false that whether Evolution is true in a persons eyes has nothing to do with religion.
THE POINT Dave claims we are missing is that there is a small but periodically effective group that is trying to move science out of the classroom and replace it with dogma. This movement is PROFOUNDLY Christian in nature (at least in the US) and is currently endorsed by many prominent politicians who are in office today. It is Dave that misses the point. Not us.
So you tell me? Do those of you Christians who decide not to involve yourself in the argument feel ANY responsibility for these wing-nuts using your religion to engage in irresponsible behavior, or do you think this is merely an academic argument that has nothing to do with your faith?
The fact that you admit that there exist several minorities and sects within the Christian church; (I found over 1300 hundred and counting so far )and all have their own viewpoints of evolution and science in general proves that religion is man made , how you say?, well, they are the product of there parents and there parents are a product of there parents and so on and so on , but if you where born in the middle east you would have a completely different way of thinking , and completely a different religiosity , but you would still think yours was the true way , since there are so many religions and branches and off shoots of does religions ,don’t you think there is something wrong?, wouldn’t an all powerful all knowing god have made one religion to follow , or did he enjoy watching all the genocides, baby killing and mutilations throughout history.
That would make him exactly what he is a man made maniacal genocidal infanticidal jealous maniac.
Hey Reece the fact that i don’t think there is an after life makes me live my one and only life to its fullest , i must to tell you , with out having the need to depend on a made up god from the middle east as paid of for me and my family , we live like kings we never let our self get down in the dumps because we know the truth , prayers do nothing for you, you got to get up of your fat ass and make a living instead of waiting for gaaaawwwwwddd to give it to you .
And you know what I am not afraid to die, dying is just a part of life , you on the other hand are so afraid to die that you let yourself believe that there is a big daddy floating and waiting for you up in the sky ,lol, how stupid can you be.
Um mike I think you got the names mixed up there, I am not the one saying there is an afterlife and aren’t religious in anyway. You might want to go recheck who was making the afterlife comments before insulting them.
Then I must apologize to you , this is a new site for me responding to people is harder then it looks lol, sorry once again.
It is no problem to be a believing christian and still believe in evolution. An allpowerful god would have no problem creating the world with all it’s flora and fauna and subsequently create evolution – thus making it possible for the world to evolve as it did, while still keeping every animal perfect. Evolution does not prove creation wrong, it merely shows how big the true miracle of god is.
Evolution has actually been scientifically proven, and the religious groups that refute this are apparently unaware of the meaning of the scientific term “theory”. As such, gravity is actually still only a theory, as evolution is.
At the risk of alienating theists who do acknowledge the facts about evolution; evolution does suggest to me that there is no god. It is not direct evidence, and it does not prove that gods do not exist, but it suggests that nature can take its course without some secret hand. I think that is the obvious reason why so many theists hate evolution.
And, if God does exist, and God guides the evolution of diseases and helps them to become more potent and more difficult to cure, well, that isn’t a good sign either.
Just saying. Of course I respect theists who believe in evolution much more than those who do not. There cannot be any real respect for the other side when they are purposely pursuing ignorance, which is what fundamentalists do. The guy in the video is a con artist.
God wants everything to survive as best it can. This does not make him less potent or more evil, it just means that He gives us the chance of bettering ourselves without taking our freedom away. We are not to be mindless perfect and untouchable robots. It has been said that through adversity will we be strengthened, and god wants us as perfect as we can be.
Though this sounds like propaganda, I am merely trying to explain my own reasoning behind Christians believing in evolution.
I’ll remember that the next time I hear about infants with life-threatening diseases. Those heathen infants need those diseases in order to become spiritually pure… even if they die in infancy. Great plan.
Creationism + evolution is still illogical, even if it is more logical than Creationism that denies evolution. Life does not become less random and sometimes cold merely because you attach the word “God” to it.
But the whole point of most religions is that death is not the end. An infant might die of disease, but this infant will have it’s place in heaven. As such, a life in heaven is what all christians try to achieve, and while infants are incapble of sin, they will join god there.
I believe these last posts have strayed rather far from the original subject – Religion is a topic on which everyone must form their own opinions. At least we can all agree that Ken Ham and his bunch have got it quite wrong
Wrong I can handle, but he’s not just wrong…. He’s dangerous.
Believing that rocks can’t hurt you is one thing, but flinging rocks all over the place under the impression they can’t hurt anyone is irresponsible.
Ken Ham can believe in Creationism all he wants, and although tragic, he should be allowed to teach his children and the children of any parent who agrees with him that Creationism is true.
But if he gets his way, he will teach your children and my children that Creationism is real and that Evolution is a cruel lie under the excuse that he is “protecting” his faith. THAT is not okay…. not ever.
The topic is creationism; I haven’t strayed from anything and certainly do not need your advice on how to stay on topic. I think creationism is illogical, whether it acknowledges the process of evolution or not… though particularly when it does not, as in Ham’s case.
I find humor in your comments about how you not only know that God exists but that you know how he thinks, how he operates, and who gets into heaven. You’re an amazing guy to know all that; where do I send my donation?
Infants often die, and in prior centuries they were more likely to die than to survive. This discredits the notion of a personal god almost entirely in my view. If infants die and either go to a hell or a limbo then the personal deity is evil or unjust. The model that you propose, on the other hand, is also unjust; in this case to those who did not die at young ages. If you live to adulthood you risk going to hell, whereas if you died in infancy you would have gone straight to heaven. That hardly seems fair and makes the whole Christian system of growing up and having faith and/or living a good life rather pointless if infant death would be an easier way and would erase the need for any real existence here on earth in the first place. If you can get into heaven without being tested here on earth, then why put anyone through the test? And if dying in infancy means salvation then abortion should be a sacrament.
Perhaps an impersonal deist deity might be plausible, but infant death, in my mind, discredits religion and the notion of a personal God, particularly one who is a just judge. And, forgetting disease, the Abrahamic god is particularly bad to infants, as he endorses the slaughter of infants in different parts of the Bible. The Abrahamic scriptures are built on cruelty, particularly to children.
As I said, life is random, trying to add a superfluous deity to the mix does not explain anything, it merely creates confused people clinging to an illogical system; which is how you get people like Ham.
So this means that the poster’s ancestors were apes…. well that explains it…
I was going to get in on this conversation, to point out that evolution doesn’t disprove god, it just makes him superfluous.
Then I read Positive’s last comment, and it was awesome!
Randenzy writes…
Don’t you just love it when someone who thinks they’re being clever instead reveals their ignorance of the subject at hand? It always makes me smile.
I just want to had that, evolution is a naturally occurring event to the planet and we are a by-product of that evolution .
And creationism is, the belief that a magical being snapped his/her fingers and abracadabra here we are.
That’s why its so important that we talk about it,we must make sure these kids are no longer abused in such a prehistoric and malicious way.
Les writes…
“The Heliocentric theory is bullcrap. Maybe you live on a planet that orbits the Sun, but not me!” Ha?
The book of Genesis, or Bereshit as it is known in Hebrew (emphasis on shit) suggests that we evolved from dirt or clay, which is not particularly more dignified than evolving from another primate species. Not to mention that there is no evidence that we were created from dirt or clay; not that evidence apparently matters.
The chimpanzee and particularly the Bonobo, whom we share something like 98% of our DNA with, has a sense of empathy, a sense of justice, can cooperate with humans, can create simple tools like spears. Some intelligent chimps can even learn up to three thousand words and can even do some very simple math, which is probably more than we can say for many fundamentalists.
But, as Les alluded to, we share a common ancestor with modern apes, we did not evolve from them. So you already fail and demonstrate what we already know; most people who criticize evolution do so without having done so much as lift a science book… again, something that even a chimp can do.
And perhaps you might create your own jokes, rather than rehashing one that we have heard dozens of times from people who would not know an ape from a walrus.
Yeah… everyone knows that apes are the one’s with flippers…
I love how in his attempt at being witty he manages to completely fuck up his blockquotes.
Your bad, Les. You’re equating wit with intelligence. They are related only as apes and walruses are related.
And have you seen this about walruses? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ros73m7xBRA&feature=related
And this one about apes? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn4cS68FODo
Funny how much we have in common.
Peace.
The sad part of Christianity as a whole, (and sometimes Judaism and Islam) is that they wont accept any other beliefs. While people tolerate Christians, Christians will not tolerate Scientists. But what the worst part is, is that like evolution, creationism is a way to understand life and the PURPOSE of life. Many many people, without religion, would cease to “function” and die, accomplishing nothing.
Well, Omens, some Christians will tolerate scientists, and generally science. Ken Miller, for example, is an evolutionary biologist at Brown Univ and a Roman Catholic. Of course, if you are talking about creationists, then I totally agree.
I don’t believe that most people would cease to function if they found out religion was false. I don’t believe the claimss that they’d all go out raping and killing (some might). No, I rather think that is hyperbole designed by the leaders to keep the sheeple scared and in line.
ISIAIh 41 BRING forth your IDOLS did they PREACH to you see they can’t speak they can’t DO ANYTHING all they do is cause confusion. Jeremiah 10 they nail their IDOL down like a scarecrow it can’t move can’t speak can’t move must be carried these are nothing but the WORK of CON men.john 10 jesus christ sais his sheep hear his voice and another voice thy will not follow and if another person tries to preach to them they WILL FLEE from him. jeremiah 5 the priests bear rule on their own authority what will you do when your judged my word is not inside them. Now here is the kicker john 5 son of man voice goes back in time mathew 16 jesus christ claims to be the son of man.1 cor2 mind of CHRIST preached internally and john 16 sais the spirit of truth comes in the future. Ezekiel 13 lying prophets of ISRAEL my word is not inside them saying god sais god sais god sais wrote hoping mankind would CONFIRM their WORDS. all of this is EASILY verifiable
Jeff, we’re all pretty familiar with the Bible here. What’s not so clear is your point.
His point actually seems very clear…. like most people that do drive-by scripture… capitals in strategic places, emphasis on how it is oh so obvious he’s right: He’s preaching. What I don’t understand is how anyone can think this kind of stuff will actually change people’s minds. It’s like they think that either we haven’t heard any of this before or that because of they way THEY say it it will suddenly make sense to us.
Jeff: I’m curious… Do you honestly believe that you said something that is A) something we haven’t heard before and/or B) that your argument is well thought out and rational???
…. or are you just trolling?
@Jeff: Oh and I would LOVE to hear how any of what you said is “easily verifiable”
Wake up, campers! Everyone on stage for the Hawaiian number!
Oops, wrong thread. Or is it?