Humans work in much more mysterious ways( or at least their minds do…)

First , christianity was NOT made the state religion of Rome(if you are refering to Constantine anyway) It was the root of what is now known as catholicism which I find has very little to do with Christianity or the Bible, while they pretend to be inspired by the Bible they go against it as often as they possibly can , praying to saints of their own making rather than praying God as they were instructed( Idolatry anyone?)Turning their swords into machine guns and nukes rather than ploughshares and so forth. Just because someone calls himself-herself christian does not make em so. I see catholicism as Satan`s biggest stronghold.

Now wether you believe in God or not is irrelevant as creationism and evolution arent completely incompatible depending on interpretation and so forth.

What is very strange is the fact most poeple can only think in binaries (2s, pairs, etc…) and thus in a debate seem always to consider only 2 alternatives( except for a comment or two about possible extra-terrestrial origins this debate seems confined to creationism vs evolution) while even extra-terrestrial origins isnt even incompatible with God either, there has to be other possibilities that are left out of the debate( and Im sure some poeple out there have different ideas on the subject), as it can easilly be proven that not everything in the universe is confined to binary system like heat-light-life which have no real counterparts:
there are several degrees of lighting, but only ONE level of darkness which is simply a total absence of light( when you think in terms of darker you really only mean less light but there is still light thus its not yet dark, once its truly dark you cannot get any darker than that) Same with cold, a human mind concept to designate an absence of heat , 0 Kelvin or -273.15 Celcius and you wont get any colder than that. Once you are no longer alive you are said to be dead but again, you will never experience any state of being deader, death does not exist its only an absence of life( I know there are forms of life present in the corpse but they are not the LIFE of the counsciousness that was known as whichever person you once knew to occupy the whole you refer to as his-her body.) It makes no sense to confine our possibilities to 2.

A good scientist explores every possibilities and eliminates them all until he-she is left with only one truth. Until such a time as this has been correctly accomplished with our origins, arguing about it accomplishes very little.

So rather than call each other names just because each is convinced of something he-she connat possibly verify ( as of yet anyway) why not all join in and come up with every possibility conceivable and then contribute with each other ( instead of against each other) to further our science evolve more creatively?

The Bible consists of 66 books written by approximately 40 different authors over a period of over 1000 years. This is a fact. Each book of the Bible points to Jesus the Christ. Jesus was in fact a real person documented in over 1600 manuscripts that date back about 2000 years. Jesus as depicted in the Bible was a real person, this is a fact. I am not going to spend all day detailing why i know Jesus is Lord. I just want to bring up that Israel, which is God’s chosen nation and people in the Bible is the only nation in all of history to be completely destroyed and have its people scattered along with its language (Hebrew) become a dead language along with its currency (shequel)- to then become a revived nation May 13 1948 in the exact land area that they had occupied according to the Bible, along with its language and currency being brought back. The Bible predicted this would happen thousands of years ago. This is called prophecy. The Bible is Gods living word. There are thousands of prophecies in the Bible that were predicted that came to pass. The Bible predicted the Babylonian empires rise then fall to the Medes and Persians then their fall to the Greeks Then their fall to the Romans. This was all prophesied before the events took place. How can anyone deny that God is not looking out for the nation of Israel? Their existence and continued existence is supernatural and the thing is that God in his written word details this. God loves us all and desires us all to experience a relationship with him. I beg you all to look into this to realize this is true. you have everything to gain, and i truly want each and every one of you to be my brothers and sisters in heaven for eternity.

@ Les:
I dont know man. If your talking about a God that is so far removed that he’s unaware of the Universe hes created, then ya maybe.
Like perhaps some drunken loon found a spell book and a majick pennywhistle and burned the night away playing and chanting until he was bored of not seeing any of his incantations and threw the tin whistle into the camp fire. And there we sit. On every harmonic moan of his now melting flute,or M-brane, is the sound of the super strings that define the space we all exist. Some drunkard fool created us, then just as fast cast us in his dying camp fire.
I could believe that. That would make sense actually.

Can i break subject and just say, I fucking love StupidEvilBastard.com

Surviving and screwing are not miracles, they require no divine explanation.

Have you tried to explain that to Anthony Weiner or Arnold Schwarzenegger?

Peace.

how many out there think that “God” created the universe to evolve? That would answer a lot of questions and possibly clear up some “discrepancies”…. no prosletyzing, or sophistry.

It took a bit of willpower to stop myself from saying “take your own advice.”

As Les stated, that position is preferable to “I.D.” and evolution denial. Certainly there are many people, like Francis Collins, who believe in God while also “believing” in evolution. Catholicism and many other religions allow for that.

That said, it does not clear up discrepancies. It is merely another form of the “God of the Gaps” fallacy that atheists are used to hearing. The history of science has often been a long march away from the false certainty of the “God did it” answer. Superfluous explanations, without evidence, are not real answers to these cosmological questions, and if there is a God responsible for evolution then he has a bit of explaining to do. Life isn’t all roses and butterflies, and a deity responsible for evolution would be responsible for cancers and other illnesses. Every time a virus evolves to become more potent, more resistant to vaccines, it would be God’s will. Do you want to worship that?

Not to mention, as leguru noted, we would have no idea what the Creator would be. It could just as well be an evil Gnostic Demiurge or some other malevolent entity. Arguments for a Creator, Deistic arguments, do not prove any given religion’s view of what the Prime Mover is supposed to be.

But, putting the philosophy and theology aside, it is a rather pointless explanation. All one need do to contribute to evolution is have traits that allow you to survive and reproduce. Surviving and screwing are not miracles, they require no divine explanation.

Roy Estep wrote:

Iv’e read a lot of comments , ideas , and outbursts on this subject but i’m wondering how many out there think that “God” created the universe to evolve? That would answer a lot of questions and possibly clear up some “discrepancies”. So , anyone care to comment on that one?

No one talks about that option because there’s really nothing to talk about. Most non-believers would be happy to let believers think God developed evolution as a means of realizing creation because it means you accept the theory even if you have a silly belief about its origins. You’re the first person in 564 comments in this thread to even bother mentioning it. If you want to believe there’s a God that decided to use evolution as a means to an end, well, fine with me. I disagree on the existence of God, but otherwise I have no problem with your belief. You’re at least a full step closer to accepting reality than the folks who think God just snapped his fingers and popped everything into place in its present form.

andy12345 wrote:

Humans are just too human, pathetic and absolutely worthless in the universe, to know about the complexities of its entirety.

I disagree. First, what does it mean to be “too human?” I’m not sure that makes any sense at all. Certainly some humans are pathetic, but to claim humanity as a whole is pathetic is to overlook some amazing accomplishments considering our origins. As for being worthless, worth is largely a subjective thing. Personally, I find many humans to be quite worthy.

I have to maintain my agnostic stance because of the unknown and will always question the integrity, silently, of anyone who willingly quotes chapter and verse from any “god” book as if it is fact. I wouldn’t mind chatting with atheists’ about the possibilites of absolutely no magic man in the sky, because they might sway to agnosticism, not that I feel the need to push it…

Agnosticism is just a pussy form of atheism. It’s for wishy-washy people who can’t be bothered to make up their minds because they think that not having an opinion is somehow more noble than having one. There are very few atheists who will absolutely insist that they know with 100% certainty that there is no God(s). The simple fact is that without good reason to believe there is no reason to assume God(s) — or anything else — actually exists.

Tell me, are you agnostic about the existence of Magic Underwear Gnomes that live in your dresser and occasionally steal just one sock out of a pair? It’s no more ridiculous an idea than any God concept is. Yet I’m willing to bet you don’t go around trying to persuade people that they can’t say with certainty that Magic Underwear Gnomes might possibly exist because we’re too pathetic of a species to truly know everything.

There is no point following something that does not show itself, year after year.

You claim to be agnostic and yet that reasoning is an atheist argument. If you were truly agnostic you’d have no basis to judge believers because you can’t be 100% certain they’re not right.

I suggest following the cult of absolutely ethical human rights’, removing these governments’ from power totally one day, presuming we’re not smashed by the police and armies. Then we can remove the damaging hardline religious belief slowly over time and “foster” the cult of social humanity…

Sounds like anarchy to me. And, honestly, for all their worth, humans do suffer from some flaws such as a tendency towards self-interest and emotional before rational thought. Those are a by-product of evolution and inescapably part of being human. No government is perfect, but the social contracts that are a part of them are useful. Anarchy never seems to work for very long simply because we are, as you pointed out, human.

Everywhere I look, I still see hardline religion controlling many countries. What a shame for those people.

Nobody’s perfect.

The great thing about being a pathetic human, is that even if there is some God going to catch up with us…….hey, it’s not our fault we didn’t believe..you should have been around a bit more

I doubt the Christian God, if he does exist and is as most Christians describe him, would accept that argument.

Humans are just too human, pathetic and absolutely worthless in the universe, to know about the complexities of its entirety.
I have to maintain my agnostic stance because of the unknown and will always question the integrity, silently, of anyone who willingly quotes chapter and verse from any “god” book as if it is fact. I wouldn’t mind chatting with atheists’ about the possibilites of absolutely no magic man in the sky, because they might sway to agnosticism, not that I feel the need to push it….

Dysfunctional, unquestioning belief in anything, is no better than the type of person that believes in reiki or homeopathy etc, it’s all about indoctrination, same with any cult, designed to extract money and life from you. Sometimes, the believers are totally benign, but brainwashed.
There is no point following something that does not show itself, year after year.
I suggest following the cult of absolutely ethical human rights’, removing these governments’ from power totally one day, presuming we’re not smashed by the police and armies. Then we can remove the damaging hardline religious belief slowly over time and “foster” the cult of social humanity…..

Everywhere I look, I still see hardline religion controlling many countries. What a shame for those people.
Oh well, back to my cult of toast eating.

The great thing about being a pathetic human, is that even if there is some God going to catch up with us…….hey, it’s not our fault we didn’t believe..you should have been around a bit more

how many out there think that “God” created the universe to evolve?

OK, which “God”? If it’s not the god of the Bible, the Quran, or the Torah, which god was it? I have a Dictionary of Gods that lists 2,500 major gods, not to mention the 40 – 50,000 minor gods. Evidence indicates that all of these gods were invented by man in an attempt to explain questions that science is beginning to answer. Science and some reason in examining those phenomena that science is not able to measure or calculate. And if it was not any of those gods, maybe an agnostic explanation would suffice.

There are many good books that explain man’s compulsion to create a god. Check out the Skeptic Society for some of the better books. When you come to realize that homo sapiens is the top of the food chain, the best that evolution has come up with on this planet, maybe you will also come to the conclusion that it would be wise to foster a society that will encourage the preservation and enlightenment of this species. None of the deity myths do that. All of them favor one segment or group over another (the group that invents the specific god, of course). Does this answer your question?

Peace.

Iv’e read a lot of comments , ideas , and outbursts on this subject but i’m wondering how many out there think that “God” created the universe to evolve? That would answer a lot of questions and possibly clear up some “discrepancies”. So , anyone care to comment on that one? Why do we only have to be on one side or the other? Is there no possibility that science could reveal the true complexity of creation? And by the way, please leave only intelligent comments, no prosletyzing, or sophistry.