What are your feelings on the issue? What evidence supports your belief, thoughts, ideas etc? Why did you come about with those feelings, beliefs, thoughts, etc? What do you feel or think about gay rights in terms of marriage, tax status, etc? Have you ever met a gay person or know one personally? What were they like? Have you ever been approached by someone that is gay? What was your reaction etc?
If you don’t want to answer the more personal questions feel free not to. Just some ideas to get the blood flowing to the fingers…
[Editor’s Note: I’ve made a new Sexuality category seeing as the topic seems to come up regularly and none of the other categories were a good fit.]
I meant to add my thoughts, but got busy. Latter tonight I will let you all know what I think
Hmm, I’m probably not the target audience for this thread, since my wife and I are both bi. Chat amongst yourselves, we’ll follow along.
Webs:
My blood flows well as is. Nevertheless, back by popular demand:
Yes.
Generally likeable. One has even served as sort of a spiritual counselor to me as I raged about what a SOB my God was. That same individual also offered to work their rolodex for me regarding a personal matter. I never had to cash the chip, but it was certainly appreciated. Prior to that, I reviewed and offered comment on a book that the individual wrote. As regards the same individual’s sense of humor, it is priceless.
As a general observation, homosexual men and bi-sexual women generally have a sharper sense of humor than lesbian women and the heterosexual population at large.
By approached, I’m assuming you mean: Has anybody that was gay ever hit on you? If not, then the question is redundant and see above for general comments.
Yes, several times.
I politely turned them down while turning nearly crimson from blushing.
I’ve grouped these together because the latter two (2) piggyback on the first.
I don’t have feelings on the issue generally. I don’t know of any evidence that supports or contradicts my lack of feelings on the issue generally. A general indifference would be the reason why I have no feelings on the issue generally.
I am against same-sex marriage.
I think that covers it.
Which brings up the question of why. Would you mind elaborating?
By the way, your attitude on the subject in general is a bit of a pleasant suprise. I never expected you to be mean, but I thought homosexuality probably made you uncomfortable. No evidence for that, just an impression.
[[1) Have you ever met a gay person or know one personally? ]]
Yes, many, including myself.
[[2) Have you ever been approached by someone that is gay? ]]
Many times. With so many homosexuals in the gene pool it’s, well, impossible not to be near one, spoken to by one, or touched by one, unless you live in a bubble.
[[3) What was your reaction etc? ]]
The same as when i interact with a heterosexual, bisexual, etc. And, if they’re hot, i will probably even check them out, if the scene is conducive.
[[4) What are your feelings on the issue? What evidence supports your belief, thoughts, ideas etc? Why did you come about with those feelings, beliefs, thoughts, etc?
I think, like many things, our biological urges are heavily influenced by our cultural conditioning. That said, i love homosexuality, and i also love the American notion of Liberty.
I became, ideologically, open to homosexuality after observing and learning about it nature (e.g., gay sheep, other mammals, gulls, etc.). Once i realized that homoseuxality naturally occurs the rest became political.
[[5) What do you feel or think about gay rights in terms of marriage, tax status, etc? ]]
Homosexuality does no harm to society. I’ve yet to see any evidence of such harm or error that is unique to the homosexual relationship. American society is based upon equality, remember???
rob@egoz.org
As a gay man, I believe it’s part nurture and part nature. I believe there’s some gene or switch, that when turned on (no pun intented), it allows for that person to be open to same-sex attraction. I believe then nurture takes over and you are a product of your environment. The testing going on right with twins where 1 is gay and the other is not is extremely interesting to me.
I have no problem with people that think gay people are odd or weird to them. That’s fine. People have a right to whatever they believe. As long as they don’t try to tell me I’m a horrible sinner for being who I am, cause their sky-daddy tells them so.
Yes, I have been approached by gay people. My reactions range anywhere from ‘no thanks’, to ‘hell yeah’, depending on how hot they are.
I am a proponent of gay-marriage.
I think it’s fucked up, man. Every so-called gay person that I’ve ever met just wants to be radical: None of them truly enjoy fagot sex. Gays show a desire and intent to shock others by saying they are.
And don’t get me started talking about the mismatch of sexual organs. Dicks are shaped like arrows so that they can master ‘ginas easily. (Gun A fits naturally into holster B.) Not so a Sith Lord and a Rebel can have a light saber fight.
I thank God I’m a natural man and I certainly won’t ever need or want to shock anybody Nobody’s ever gonna feel comfortable judging my sexual correctness.
Hey, smell my finger! Har har har.
I am for the idea of social contracts, otherwise known as civil unions, for all people, including gays. I, myself, being married outside of the church, am presently engaged in a civil union with a lovely little lady.
I say the nation has no bu
I am for the idea of social contracts, otherwise known as civil unions, for all people, including gays. I, myself, being married outside of the church, am presently engaged in a civil union with a lovely little lady.
I say the government has no business in the bedrooms of the populace. Doh….Either the fingers or brain are presently malfunctioning….or it could be influence of the scotch.
homosexuality is gay.
Civil Unions
I often say: If i can’t get married to my partner (i can where we live in the swamps of SE Mass), then, by G-d, i’ll make sure *no one else* can get married either. Matter of fact, i’ll work to negate all marriages and force all those breeder-biggots into civil unions, too. A contract is a contract, available to all US citizens, regardless of the shape of their genitals. Marriage for all—or NONE ! (i also, once while drunk at the BlackRose in Boston, of all places, proposed we sieze their kids too and place them all in group homes until we get marriage rights—which didn’t go over too well).
That’s so Gay
Whenever i hear someone say that (usually some white-suburb teen), i always respond “As opposed to being so straight-n-stupid? After all, we all know gays are nerds and straights are not as intelligent, right?” More than one teen has quickly turned away from my “I can bench more than you can dream” scowl and knuckles-cracking on that one.
When opposed, oppose with a force 3 times as hard.
Detterence works.
rob@egoz.org
I’ve never really thought much about any of these questions. I used to think I was fairly ‘normal’ in my thoughts on the issue till I grew up a bit and realised there were many closed or narrow minded arse’oles on the planet that I’d have to share my air with.
To each his/her own.
No evidence per se. It was my parent’s programming of me; mostly my mother’s 2.5 years’ Ravensbrück experience which reaffirmed to her (and then taught me) people are people regardless of their, colour, race, religion or sexual persuasion and no one has the right to kill or vilify another based in any of those differences. ‘Walk a mile in that other person’s shoes’ is something my mother programmed me with.
I sometimes don’t do it soon enough.
It made logical sense just like “If you get to know me well you’ll find more valid reasons to hate me other than for just my skin colour” which I read somewhere.
As well as those little homilies: Judge not lest ye be judged, harm none, etc.
Marriage, in a civilised society, should be the voluntary union of any two (yes, polygamy is another subject) adults.
Many.
People. I liked some and disliked others; their being homosexual had nothing to do with whether I liked them or not.
It was never: I don’t like him coz he’s a homo.
Sure, when I was young and beautiful. It’s dropped off a bit in the last 30 years.
Before I left Melbourne 30 years ago my best friends were two bi-sexual couples. I screwed the girls but wouldn’t let the blokes touch me. It’s one of the reasons I left – I knew there was more to life than just sex and mind altering substances.
It was NEVER fear or disgust.
I’m straight (said with a smile) worked well enough, knowing that most gays (I can’t get used to that word – when I was young they were just queer and here) don’t want to play with someone who’s not going to enjoy the session.
LOL!!! Seriously though. We don’t want to do every guy we see. And certainly not with someone who’s not in to it.
Homosexuals and homosexual couples should be entitled to the same rights as everyone else, including marriage, adoption, driving licenses, etc.
I know a few (most notably one of my best friends from high school, who is now openly lesbian).
Like anyone else. Except gay.
Nope.
Other thoughts – gay sex is icky, but I don’t care if other people want to do that.
And that’s one reason we use e-mails and IM’s to see if the other one IS into it or not. DUH
Yeah, straight guys tend to be freaked out about the possibility of a gay guy hitting on them.
It doesn’t seem to occur to them that women have to deal with this sort of unwanted affection all day long.
About half my friends are gay. I myself am moderately bi, but mostly hetero. I tend to feel more comfortable around women and gay men for some reason.
As for gay marriage, well my feeling is that ALL marriage should be banned.
What are your feelings on the issue? What evidence supports your belief, thoughts, ideas etc? Why did you come about with those feelings, beliefs, thoughts, etc? Have you ever met a gay person or know one personally? What were they like?
Not sure what issue you are talking about – there are several.
Many years ago I took what would be recognized today as the standard fundamentalist Christian position on homosexuality: sinful, dangerous to society, etc. Then I had a gay roomate who turned out to be a perfectly decent fellow; this undermined my prejudices (for that they were) and I started learning more widely on the subject, including meeting other gay people over the years. Some were very nice people, some were unpleasant jerks, and I was unable to escape the impression that gay-ness wasn’t the variable.
What do you feel or think about gay rights in terms of marriage, tax status, etc?
I am completely in favor of recognizing full marriage legality for gays, and forbidding most discrimination on the basis of sexuality.
Have you ever been approached by someone that is gay? What was your reaction etc?
OK this is really embarrassing, but I was 17 and hitchhiking (it was a different time – people hitchhiked then) and a guy who picked me up made quite a production of resting his hand on my leg when shifting the gears… and I was too dense until later to realize he was coming on to me. So I really didn’t react at all and he took his hand away.
Later I mentioned it so someone and they explained it to me but by then the moment for outrage had passed. No one (including my gay roomate) ever made another pass at me in the years since, which could be due to the fact that I emit hetero vibes or something.
Although I might have missed a come-on or two; MrsDoF assures me that even today I miss when women are coming on to me, which she says happens fairly often. I’ll just have to take her word for it because I am apparently pretty dense.
I just heard Mark Foley speaking on Dateline NBC’s pedophile series and I wonder how anyone walked away from him assuming he was straight. Actually he thinks he’s gay but he’s something altogether different.
I was surprised to read the word “icky” used to describe gay sex but I guess we all have our sacred images and absolute limits; I have mine.
My partner and I are both bisexual. Not only is homosexuality just as much a part of life as heterosexuality, but I generally think that gays and lesbians who are out and proud are wonderful, courageous people whom I respect infinitely.
I am pro-gay marriage, pro-gay adoption, and pro-gay rights in general.
El Josh, WTF? Was that sarcasm?
When those words were uttered by my teen; I let her have it. They are rude, ignorant and completely foolish. They promote and maintain an unhealthy (not to mention dangerous) social attitude.
I agree here with John completely.
I think that that pretty much sums it up! Well done DOF!
I hate the fact that so many homophobic or simply ignorant individuals believe and espouse that homosexuality = pedophile or homosexuality = sexual predator (of any/all type/s)
It also bothers me that many misguided individuals associate bisexual with polygamy. Just because one is bisexual does not mean they practice relationships with multiple partners at the same time. Some bisexuals actually believe in monogamy and the sanctity of a marriage/civil contract with a mate. Just because one is capable of loving someone of either sex does not mean they tend toward 2 (or more) at a time.
Homosexuality is not natural. If they want to go against nature, good for them. They can’t biologically have kids. They should also not be allowed to adopt kids.
Odd then, that it has been observed in almost every vertebrate species.
The keyword is “observed”. It’s not very common to find them in every location they exist.
Homosexuality is a developmental malfunction of the mind.
“they” as in the species. I should have been more clear.
I don’t have time to go into the questions proper, but I just wanted to remark on my sudden realization that I have a much larger gay audience than I previously thought.
It’s only surprising to me because I’d never really stopped to consider whether or not gays found my site worth reading.
Are you certain that attitude isn’t a developmental malfunction of the mind?
I get hung up on one and that’s almost too much for me. I tend to invest too much interest.
(I know, I know, I never post and now you guys can’t shut me up. Maybe this’ll get me over my commenter’s block.)
Les
That doesn’t make you a fag hag does it?
> We need a pumpkin smiley, Les.
You’re entitled to your views, but given that you probably don’t think that interracial marriage is “natural” either, I see no reason to take your input seriously.
Replace the word “homosexuality” with “racism,” “sexism,” or “homophobia” and you’ll be making a statement that’s closer to the truth.
Anyway, to supplement my above post, I’ve been hit on a few times by other women. I usually appreciate it more than when I’m hit on by guys (with the obvious exception of KPG, of course
), even though I’m primarily attracted to men.
Also, three of my best male friends—Pete, Andy, and Harold—are gay. I’d say that they’ve consistently been some of my best friends in general, male or female. Then again, I also have great lesbian friends, most notably Jessie and Elle (both of whom I’ve experimented with on numerous occasions).
Hahahaha… you know, I am primarily straight myself but I feel that way too. I also found that a higher percentage of girls that hit on me showed MUCH more respect when I turned them down than guys I’ve turned down.
Go figure!
I don’t think marriage at all is natural. Humans (and all apes in general) are not naturally monogamous. If they were, married men would not have lustful thoughts about other women, porn would be almost nonexistent, and polygamy wouldn’t be so damned appealing. Marriage is part of culture, not nature.
Thank you for that image.
Sexuality, like any other human or animal attribute, is distributed on a bell curve. There are total homo and total hetero and everything in between, and all are, more or less, normal. You will note that the vast majority are some degree of bi-sexual, which I believe, is actually the “norm.” Then there are the aberrant ones who defy socially acceptable behavior, i.e., the predators (rapists, pedophiles, etc). Most of these acts are not primarily sexual, but power plays, according to social scientists and psychiatrists. Those who feel threatened or very unconfortable about activities on the normal bell curve may have some issues of their own, like bigotry. Bigotry appears to be based on the herd instinct for survival, if it’s different, kill it because it threatens the herd. Humans are capable of control over herd instinct by our higher intellect, when we choose to use it.
Sexy Sadie:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia
It appears to me that this term, homophobia, just means one who is against something the LGBT movement favors. Other than that, it appears to be devoid of any meaning.
Moloch:
More than one woman to say, “I’m wrong, you’re right, I’m sorry” to? Screw that! That doesn’t sound appealing at all!
Variety being the spice of life is appealing, but not polygamy.
leguru:
What is your source?
As Billy Bragg once sang:
Sexuality – strong and warm and wild and free
Sexuality – your laws do not apply to me
Sexuality – dont threaten me with misery
Sexuality – I demand equality
Of course Teh Ghey!!! freaks a few people out, since they can’t comprehend that gay people want to work, cook dinner, fart and live their lives without being attacked for existing.
All is know is, I could never become a homophobe. I’m too big of an Elton John fan, like Mr. Brock too.
It’s funny how America claims to be the land of the free where everyone is supposed to be equal, yet two gay men who love each other can’t be married.
Pathetic.
Why is it people think gay ‘men’ are evil and unnatural, but get 2 women together and wooooah! The Moloch’s of the world start typing with one hand. Ugh. Gay is gay.
And Moloch, I’m really ok that being gay is not natural for you. To each his own. But it’s 100% natural for me, and 10 – 37% of the population of the world.
Moloch, where is your proof of homosexuality being ‘not natural’. Oh, and here’s a complete list of animals for which there is documented evidence of homosexual or transgender behavior of one or more of the following kinds: sex, courtship, affection, pair bonding, or parenting.
Enjoy!
jeffercine:
I’m not going to defend Moloch at all. However, the figure from Kinsey that you give is grossly inflated. Most telling that the figure is inflated is that in the friend of the court brief filed in Lawrence v. Texas by gay rights advocates, the figure they use when bound by an oath not to misrepresent the facts to the Court, that figure was 2.8%. Surely if the figure was 10%, 4 times greater, they would have said that to make their case all the more persuasive.
Studies over the last 15 years have yielded remarkably similar results. The figure is anywhere between 1-4%.
DOF:
There are numerous examples of polycephaly amongst many members of the animal kingdom, including humans. Do you believe that polycephaly is “natural” in the same manner as you are presenting homosexuality?
Homosexuals are no different than you or I except that they like the other sex and dress well.
But seriously, not allowing them the same amenities as heterosexuals makes little sense to me. Personally, I could care less what they do, it is there life, and who the fuck am I to tell them they cannot do what they wish (as long as they don’t want to hurt anyone).
As far as evidence goes, I have yet to see any credible studies that show a negative effect to having homosexuals raise children. The whole problem (as do most other problems in our society) basically come from a stupid religious belief. I really found it to be quite interesting though that my parents are harshly against homosexuals and allowing them to get married. I ask my father if I was gay if he would support me getting married, and my wedding. He said no! My girlfriend’s parents are very much the opposite on the issue but are much more religious than my parents, which is odd on the one hand. But very refreshing on the other.
Even though my parents are against it, it never made sense to me to discriminate.
I think homosexuals deserve the same right we heterosexuals deserve. Why? Because they are a human being just like you and me.
I have met a few gay people and my feelings toward them are the same as any other human.
No, or at least if I was I never knew it. My girlfriend tells me that it would be a complement though. I went to a gay bar once with my brother though. Not only was it a whole lot more fun than most other bars, but my brother sort of got hit on. We were playing pool, and when my brother leaned over for a shot, I noticed another guy checking out his ass.
Thanks to everyone for posting, I really enjoyed reading your responses. I must say I am also glad to see the overwhelming support their seems to be here for gay rights.
Consi: I’m kinda surprised given your background and intelligence that you are against gay marriage. I also think that the 10% would be an understatement if you counted all of the closet homosexuals, and those afraid to admit it because of family, religion, culture, etc.
Brock: sorry your interactions had to be so negative. But if I had to guess, I would say your personal beliefs clouded how you saw the homosexuals you came in contact with
Prickly Pear: right on borther! I too think the government should stay the fuck out of our lives.
LJ: Fucking funny as always.
DOF: I too suffer from the same problem of not knowing when someone is hitting on me. Which is why I am glad to be in a stable relationship.
Mrs. SEB: I too wish that gay people wouldn’t be equated with pedophilia. I heard a Catholic priest that was forced to resign talk on NPR. He was forced out because he came out of the closet, and not because he had forced little boys to have sex with him. It is a shame for sure.
Les: I was kind of surprised too. I am glad to say that SEB has diverse group. It makes these topics that much more interesting.
Sexy Sadie: I too would appreciate being hit on by a guy more than a gal.
TheBo$$: Great reason for not being homophobic.
Polycephaly is a congenital disorder. From the context of this discussion, are you saying that you believe that somebody who has a congenital disorder should not be allowed to marry?
I have not said any such thing. I’ve asked DOF a question. My question still stands.
I doubt that anybody can can say with any degree of certainty what the incidence of homosexuality is in the general population. Gay people do not have any known physical characteristics that can be used to identify them as being gay and many gay people have no outward signs of being gay, how did the studies determine who was gay? Relying upon self identification is unreliable and likely to be biased. In all of those studies, were any objective tests done to determine whether the subjects were straight or gay?
I believe that between 5% and 10% of the eneral population is gay, perhaps higher depending upon how bisexual individuals are classified. A significant number of gay people will not admit to themselves that they are gay. I know this because I was one of them, and I know of many guys who denied that they were gay until later in life After they finally admit to themselves that they are gay, they start realizing that so many things that felt wrong to them in the past are actually normal feeling for somebody who is gay.
Polycephaly is not analogous to homosexuality.
LOL.
One is an -observable malfunction- of a process (the fertilised egg *failing* to properly split). In contrast, homosexuality is a physiological behavior of an organism that, by all observable scientifically objective measures, is functioning perfectly correct. Indeed, there is ample and growing suggestions that homosexuality is a response to in vitro and/or in vivo elements.
Someone needs to weed out their conditioned-ideology from their understanding of biology.
Free yourself! Ignorance is no fun.
Good for them. I admit that something about transexuals and crossdressing creeps me out sometimes, but so does an excess of NASCAR caps and dip.
Real tits and vagina queens bother me a little too, just for attitude (though I admit that it depends on the tits and vagina), so if a gay guy is especially FAAAABULOUS I’m unlikely to be friends with them either. It’s not about who they’re screwing though, it’s about not wanting to put up with bullshit.
I’ve had lots and lots of homosexual friends (and enemies too) over the years. I used to go to gay bars on Wednesdays because the drink specials were awesome and watching lesbians make out in dark corners amused me. I don’t expect any homosexuals to particularly care what I’m doing with MY penis unless it’s prodding THEM, and as long as they’re not rubbing it on me I could care less what they’re doing with theirs.
Gays are people, they should be treated the same as other people, including the right the marry who they care to and adopt children. If they abuse the children, well straight people abuse kids too, how is one orientation automatically different?
I admit though, when I was a kid if I didn’t like someone AND they had a surefire way to piss them off by mocking their two daddies? But kids are cruel by their nature, and I was an excellent example.
Lots and lots. Some were ok, some were dicks, some assumed that because I had lots of gay friends I was “confused”, etc. In general they were less likely to go out with me or be chased by me than heterosexual and bisexual women, but I’ve had the problem of at least one homosexual friend misunderstanding my need for a ride to go out dancing for a date – which was more embarrassing than anything else. Most of the lesbians I’ve known can’t stand me, but I chalk that up to a general lack of a sense of humor.
Yeah, I have. Generally I tend to ignore it unless someone goes for the pants or package. It’s a lot like being approached by a woman I don’t care for or something like that, flattering and amusing but not really a problem most of the time. I once had to tell one of my gay friends to back off while we were out a bar a couple of times because I was getting the vibe that it was causing some confusion in the minds of the ladies that I was checking out.
I’m still waiting to be approached by a lesbian, maybe a few pounds more and I can get my man-tits and sucker one in. Surprise!
Now THAT’s gross, on soooo many levels
I have also noticed that gay bars tend to have better prices and stiffer drinks than other bars.
Transexuals and crossdressers are not necessarily gay. Although I am sympathetic to transgendered people, I don’t understand transexuality at all – it is the ultimate gender fuck as there are so many variations. Crossdressing (or “drag”) is a very old practice and is present in legends, Wikipedia even has a picture of Thor and Loki in drag. There are some straight entertainers that do entire shows in drag, such as Eddie Izzard and Dame Edna. Some straight prime time TV comedians regularly performed in drag, such as Flip Wilson and Milton Berle.
You forget to mention the best of all: Jamie Lee Curtis !!!
Remember the SNL_EddieMurphy skit (”White Like Eddie”) ?? If you know the korrect “code”, the drinks are even free! Oh, and you obviously missed the free drugs in the “womens room” !
;-]
—
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/84/84iwhitelikeeddie.phtml
Gay Traditions in NativeAm people… Today’s NYTIMES:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/08/fashion/08SPIRIT.html?pagewanted=2
Same for straights.
What’s the difference between saying a gay wants to sleep with everyone they see of the same sex, as opposed to heteros wanting to sleep with everyone they see of the opposite sex?
I always thought it one of those idiotic homophobic statements.
Double dip:
What, “Entertainment” is not a good category???
Brock said…
It probably does in some people’s minds, but I don’t care. The last thing about someone I think about is which gender they prefer to hook up with. As long as they’re happy and healthy it doesn’t really matter to me. Some of the best people I’ve ever known were as gay as it’s possible to be and I wouldn’t have changed them for all the money in the world.
And, surprisingly enough, I’ve been hit on once or twice in my time back in my younger days. Once in my 20’s an acquaintance at the time who wasn’t as accepting of gays and I were passed by a couple of guys on the street holding hands and one of them looked over his shoulder as we passed and said to me, “Nice ass!” I said thank you and kept on walking.
My less accepting acquaintance turned to me and angrily whispered, “You going to let him get away with saying that?!” I replied with a sure, why not? “Cause that dude is GAY!!”
I believe my response was along the lines of: “Look, just because I don’t want to go to the party doesn’t mean it’s not nice to be invited. At least SOMEONE out there appreciates my ass.”