[Editor's note: I think we've covered this one before on SEB, but I can't find the entry. It's been awhile since this first came to the forefront, but it appears the lawsuits haven't made their way through the courts yet.]
Here is a link to some info about a bunch of Mormon folks who have been editing Hollywood Blockbusters for what they adjudge to be unnecessary content which includes;
1) Violence – Sometimes only Gory Violence
2) Sex Scenes
3) Profanity
4) Suggestive language
5) Blasphemy
and in some cases
6) Homosexuality
I’ve just seen an A&E Documentary called “Bleep: Censoring the Movies” which was very interesting. It showed these “Flick-Cleaner-Upper” companies and how they work.
They work by basically taking existing movies and editing them on their computers to remove/obscure/dub content they don’t like. There inst a financial issue because they have to buy a copy of each movie every time they sell one – so they supposedly aren’t schtupping Hollywood of their money, but many Hollywood Directors (at least 15 named in a lawsuit including Stephen Soderberg and other Academy Award Winners) still strongly object about their intellectual property being battered in this manner – they see this as an intellectual property and artistic integrity issue – I agree.
One company has a more hi-tech opinion which handles movies kind of like a v-chip in a TV which allows each specific category of “offensive” material to be removed “on-the-fly”.
Particularly difficult for me to accept is the fact that some of the movies that were cleaned up include “Saving Private Ryan” and “Schindler’s List”. Both sides of my family – my own British side and my wife’s American side – have survivors and victims of WWII violence – I want everyone to know the true horror of war – not a sanitized version of it.
Something I find that particularly offensive – to remove the image of a young soldier lying on Normandy Beach attempting to hold his intestines in his body whilst writing in pain so that they can be rid of a part of a movie they narrowly adjudge to be “unnecessarily violent” is truly the height of ignorance in my opinion.
Personally my opinion is that if you are not willing to accept a director’s vision – sex, violence and bad language included – then you should not receive the gift of that movie at all.
Art is art.
If you find the nude male figure offensive then you should not see ANY of Michaelangelo’s “David” or of Da Vinci’s “Vitruvian Man”. To make and sell censored copies would be as offensive to me as it is for them if I used the words “Jesus Christ!” as a curse.
Anyone else feelin’ me here, homies?
Regards,
Deoxy.
Sadie, you’re right ‘conservative’ and ‘liberal’ have gone through some dizzying changes over the years. I’ve been trying to write a post about that for months now but can’t seem to get it right.
I don’t think being gay is in itself either good or bad, so you couldn’t insult me by calling me gay. But using ‘gay’ as a pejorative is insulting to gay people. Therein lies asshattery.
Les, you sort of took all the air out of the discussion with those actual facts and law and stuff. I am consoled by the thought of Mel Gibson all upset by his splatter flick getting edited. How long is the edited version?
True, it is very insulting to gay people. I love gay people, so I don’t mind being called “gay,” but designing an insult with them as the scapegoat just shows how ignorant and bigoted people like Darrell are (not to mention immature; it’s asshat-like for a 13-year-old to use the term insultingly, for christ’s sake).
I think it’d make for fascinating reading. Speaking of which, have you read “What’s the Matter With Kansas?” by Thomas Frank? That’s the basic premise of the book. It’s a depressing read, but it is interesting as all get-out. Makes me happy to be living in California, I’ll say that much…
Deoxy, since Mormons, Christians, and other fundies of whatever ilk, are already living in a fantasy world with “invisible friends” and what not, what difference does it make that they want to change another’s fantasy creation? As long as they are not trying to stuff it down my thoat or disguise it as the real thing, caveat emptor! And, as Les pointed out, they are doing so within the “law”. And, like DOF, your story speaks of fascists, not fundies.
Maybe I’m missing something here, but doesn’t the statement “no fixed copy of the altered version” preclude companies such a Clean Flicks from producing durable media without the consent of the copyright holder?
I suppose it could be interpreted as being that they couldn’t make any copies of the version once they altered which would still put Clean Flicks in the precarious position of going through each and every purchased copy and editing them.
People here have questioned the veracity of my tale of misfortune which resulted in a crazed fundie Christian attacking me with a lethal weapon (her ~1600lbs SUV) and breaking both my legs.
For the purposes of obscuring the identity of my assailant, which I’ve been told to do by law enforcement, I’ll refer to my assailant as “Pam”*.
*=Not her real name.
I assure you I’m being honest that this event happened.
I did question myself as to the accuracy of one element though – the baptist minister’s reaction to my questions.
I went back to my journal that I keep and read the entry about what he said.
It appears that I did unintentionally omit some facts and may have overstated other things. This is the conversation as I recorded it in my journal that day.
This is what the pastor said to me;
I bit my tongue and dug my nails into my side to try to prevent myself from allowing my increasingly furious anger to boil over at this implication that this was something that just “Happened” to Pam and I – not that it was Pam attempting to kill me with a lethal weapon.
The pastor said
I thought at this point that the pastor was going to become a little more contrite.
Well the pastor scotched that idea and went on to comment;
I was speechless at this point and my mouth dropped open in disbelief – the pastor went on;
I’m still wondering if there is some moral problem in the Christian faith with the idea of attempting to bribe someone into accepting the religion.
The Pastor continued;
I responded “why do you think that my problems are based on my atheism – I was doing pretty well until one of your -”
The pastor cut me off midsentence and raised his voice to talk over me and continued by saying -
I’m just amazed at this point because all my life I’ve been told that atheists are amoral and Christians are the only ones that are moral – without the biblical teachings you cannot be moral – that’s what I’ve been told.
I tried to interrupt the pastor several times during his little sermon but he and one of his assistants gestured and shouted at me to be silent telling me “Just give the pastor the chance to finish, then he’ll answer your questions for you”.
The Pastor continued;
I got a few words out and said;
“Actually Pam* (*the fake name I’m using for my assailant, remember?) came up and insisted that I tell her about my religion. I’ve never told anyone here in this community that I thought less of them because they were Christian. I’ve never even mentioned my atheism to anyone here before Pam approached me.”
The pastor replied;
I replied “You also have the honest truth that I just told you to go on”.
The Pastor shot back;
I replied in a calm and very much normal volume “I’ve done nothing to convince you I’m the same”.
The pastors reply
My reply was “My problem was with an attempt one of your churches members who made an attempt to murder or at least maim me, causing me inordinate amounts of pain and suffering, and may have permanently damaged me in a way which may mean I’ll never walk normally again.”
The pastors reply was
Feeling like no matter what I said would change things I left.
Everything I’ve told you is that honest truth about what happened – I know it sounds extreme but this is what I believe is happening.
Pam has certain attributes and physical features that lead me to believe she was involved in organized crime in her past and her accent is from one of the coastal cities of America and so she moved to this area some years ago.
The fact that the FBI and CIA are both involved leads me to believe that Pam is in fact in a witness relocation/protection program and is needed as a witness in current and future criminal trials, hence why they wont prosecute her right now.
What is really amazing is how strongly the entire community has come out against me as if I forced Pam into trying to kill me with her SUV, and how that they support her to the hilt no matter what.
I can’t prove this to you, but all I can do is give you my word.
To those that have said that
Look, they may be fascists too - but they ARE FUNDIES!!, Let me just get that straight with you guys. They are pro-ID, they are veremently anti-abortion and some people here have allegedly been involved in violence against abortion clinic staff.
They use their religion to justify everything about this event and many have told me that I don’t deserve any help or sympathy because I’m going to hell anyway and I hate god.
You cannot vindicate fundie Christians by saying “No… they’re not fundie Christians, they’re fascists”.
Changing the name doesnt change the facts.
Fascism is an extreme Right-Wing Conservative ideal – ideal admittedly but it is still right-wing, not left-wing.
The fact that American Conservatives are actively on a campaign of revising history to fit their own prejudices is very worrying indeed.
Liberals are people that believe in liberty for all – Conservatives are people who wish to conserve what already exists.
Conservatives want to CONSERVE the law that allows people to own and keep a bunch of guns in their home.
Liberals believe that people should be free.. in this case free not to get shot for knocking on a strangers door to ask for directions.
If you don’t believe my little life story then fine – whatever – I can only give you my word.
Happy new year guys,
Deoxy.
I would actually define them (at least social/ cultural conservatives in the United States; fiscal conservatives may be different, but I don’t know as I’m not a conservative) as people who insist on everyone, not just themselves, living in a fantasy world that does not exist, did not exist, and never will exist. They like to point to some black-and-white, semi-fascistic era (usually the repressive 1950s) that in fact did not happen like they seem to wish (and gush) it did.
I’m glad I’m a liberal. As Robert Plant sang, “My freedom, I hold dear.”:coolsmile:
Anyway, I think I’ve pretty much exhausted this topic. Those Mormons, I think they’re deluded, but being deluded is one’s right. If they want to fuck with other people’s movies for their own personal viewing, I suppose they can legally (or maybe not; no offense, Les, but I sorta got lost in your technical mumbo-jumbo).
However, I am an artist, and thus I find the idea of tampering with someone else’s work pretty questionable. I consider art to be a gift to humankind, and I like to think that all art, no matter how stale, commercial, or jejune, contains at heart the artist’s personal vision. As OB put it, why don’t these easily-rattled Christians just stick to the soulless, inoffensive (at least for them) fare already marketed to them? Oh, well, to each their own, I suppose.
Anyway, this character still puzzles me.
Are those tears streaming from its eyes? If so, why? Tears of laughter? Grief? Fear? And why the moniker “snake?” Is that its name? Or has the character merely caught site of a snake, thus generating the odd expression on its face, perhaps one of fear, or gaity? Anyone know? Anyone? Bueller?
Happy New Year! If the first day is any indication, I’m getting good vibes.
Not caring about the primary topic at hand, and being much more entertained by the thread drift, I intend to focus on the drifwood.
I would say that if that were true, it would just make me look stupid. Were I to argue against my position without any basis for it, one would look just as stupid. Luckily for me, the latter is true in this case. From Wikipedia:
As to your situation, I think DOF raised a valid concern about the veracity of it. If it were true, the publication rights to such a story would more than ease any difficulty you may currently be experiencing. That is not to even mention the notoriety you would receive from such an event.
Other troubling facts about your account:
1) Gag orders for cases are issued by judges, not law enforcement officials. You are under no legal obligation to abstain from the mentioning of an attacker’s name, unless a) there is no such attacker or b) the account is not entirely factual and you fear a potential libel suit.
2) If a hit and run occurred it would be prosecuted, regardless of how “popular” the woman is. If anything it would make headlines for an aspiring DA. Nothing but nothing makes a lawyer smile more than seeing himself in the media.
3) I find it incredulous that a young aspiring attorney would not represent you and pursue any of the following:
a) your own carrier under the underinsured clause;
b) a suit against her;
c) a negligent entrustment theory alleging that she should’ve known the “spirit of Christ” was a reckless driver….ROTFLMAO (Couldn’t pass it up)
4) Most churches belong to councils set up to help the needy. The purpose of the council is 2 fold-1) to combine the resources to achieve a greater impact; and 2) prevent scammers from going from church to church. I’ve worked extensively with these councils and have yet to encounter one that required church membership.
5)
HAHAAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The CIA no less? HAAHAHAHAAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! Do you hear the pastor’s voice taunting you through the tv too??? ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!! I was right!! You are an ubermensch as evidenced by the courage, nay the bravery you have shown in posting this story when your computer is so surely being tracked. HAHAAHAHAHAAHA!!!!!!
Les, zilch, elwed, GM, DOF, and ingolfson, the pleasure is mine in saying Deoxy is one yours.
I agree we’re pretty much done with the movie issue. The score stands at “Mormons 1, Artistic Expression 0” with referee Copyright siding with the Mormons.
Very funny, Consi. OK with me, as long as you take Pat Robertson and James Dobson
Deoxy, fundamentalism and facism are (alas) not mutually exclusive and once again, assuming your story took place just as you described it, it is the facism causing you trouble. I have known (and still know) a lot of fundamentalists in three states, and they’re not violent or given to cover-up. If you want to say; “Facist Fundies” to distinguish them from the garden variety, fine.
Despite (or perhaps because of) all the details you have provided, I think your story is probably a superset of the actual facts (if any). But Consi has a point about its salability. I know I enjoyed reading it; surely the evil secular media would like to turn that into a made-for-TV movie! As with most of what you see on TV, factuality is secondary
(Never used the snake before – never really noticed it! Nifty.)
Sadie, we all hold our freedom dear. Agreeing what freedom is, ay, there’s the rub. That would be a good discussion in itself.
Loaded a Disney dvd up for the young’un this morning. Heard the “Own it today on dvd” ad. Yeah. Talking to a friend last night, he brought up that if you don’t “own” it, but license it, then the media really doesn’t matter, and you should be able to replace damaged media at cost, since you have a license. I know in reality it’s dependent on the company, since there are those who’ll ship you replacement media if you return damaged disks.
In this thread, I’ve realized I take a property oriented approach to purchases. The definition of intellectual property is iffy looking at google. I have my own definition (more or less) of what it is, but that doesn’t mean copyright law agrees with it.
I think I define IP like obscenity – I know it when I see it.
“Own it today on DVD”
- It would be interesting if someone with time and resources would open a test case using that phrase to challenge DRM and other restrictions to the license, or even the concept of license itself.
My thoughts exactly, dof.
What DoF said, Consi. I’ll just add this.
Let’s assume, as you obviously do, that Deoxy is a kook. So you’re gloating because you’ve finally found a liberal kook, and that means you can classify the lot of us as “friends of kooks”? Not very impressive, Consi. Do you like babies? So did Hitler. We have you pegged now.
Deoxy- your story is getting pretty wierd. What’s up?
zilch, I’m sure Consi was just teasing. Besides, it’s only fair that out of the fruitbats who show up here, 1 out of 800 of them be liberal fruitbats, just to match the ratio in real life.
Deoxy, how does Consi usually say it? “Shhh, you’re hurting the cause.” No, he usually says it more eloquently than that, but I’m still laughing so hard at the conspiracy theories that few other words occur to me at the moment.
zilch:
DOF and GM caught the spirit of the post. Smile with me.
It’s good for the soul. 
I remember a while back watching “Revenge of the Nerds” on television… not an artistic vision of greatness, I know… and not being able to understand any of the plot. Just because you have the director/ writer giving you the thumbs up on your editing it doesn’t mean that what ends up on the screen makes a lick of sense. Add to that the disgrace that happens without the thumbs up…yech
Ahh… great movie. I imagine ROTN got sliced up in the ‘edited for tv’ version. Another movie that really suffered on the cutting-room floor even in the theater version was Spaced Invaders, about a bunch of incompetent aliens trying to invade Earth. Great concept, but some of the best stuff got lost in the clutter.
O.K. I’ve tried 4 times now to explain why my story sounds so wacky and exactly why it is that things are not quite what they seem. Everything I’ve posted has not arrived here on the forum.
Either Les is pulling my pisser or my computer really is under surveilance and there is a packet sniffer in place to remove anything I might post discussing the incident and the identity of my assailant.
I know you guys think I’m a Kook but honestly I’m telling you all the truth. I’m not asking for special treatement or expecting sympathy, I’m just trying to explain why I’m pissed off and why I have so much time on my hands.
Happy New year guys,
Deoxy.
Les! Are you working for the CIA??!
There’s a way to test that, Deoxy. Post a notice that you are going to follow that post with another post containing the information you think is being removed. Then post it.
To be fair, you have to admit that your ongoing revelations are sounding pretty fantastic but if true, you deserve and could soon have national attention coming your way.
If your story is being covered up, we all need to know it.
A few questions I would like answered:
-What city and state did this take place in?
-Who is your lawyer?
-Have you spoken with the media concerning the attack and lack of justice?
-Have you received threats warning you to remain quiet?
-Does “Pam” have previous criminal activity on her record? (A lawyer could find out about this)
-Could or did you record any admissions by her?
I hope your story is embellished significantly but if it isn’t, justice needs to be served. If it is true, don’t give up seeking criminal charges.
DOF, I’d tell you, but then I’d have to kill you.
Brock,
You think for a moment I don’t know that what I’m telling you guys is one of the bizarrest stories I’ve ever heard about American culture?
My friend – I’m well aware that anyone who cannot substantiate what they say who claims that they were involved in a serious criminal incident which resulted in both the CIA and the FBI showing up – I’m well aware that just doing that much is going to make everything think I’m a liar, or at the very least I’m a delusional kook.
I know that all of this sounds like Bullshit. I’ve gone backwards and forwards between wanting to explain myself better to wanting to take it all back, delete my ID and run away from telling anyone about what happened to me and never showing up in this forum again.
As for your questions, I’m sorry, Brock, but I’m unwilling to give out too much information on where I live and personal details – Much as I would like to give you all the info you would like to have I just don’t feel that’s prudent.
I’m going to keep relatively quiet from now on about this incident.
I believe the message I was trying to get across have reached their intended targets.
1. There are places in this nation where being “outed” as an atheist can have serious negative repercussions including direct acts of violence, discrimination, and the trampling of ones rights
2. Christian does not mean moral, Atheist does not mean amoral (somehow I don’t think that is news to any of you guys though).
4. There is discrimination even amongst local and maybe even federal government based upon who you are and whom it is who attacks you.
Two representatives from the media have called me and all but insisted on a meeting. I’ve refused to give them any kind of statement or even acknowledge that it was me involved in any kind of incident connected with the two-horse town this happened in.
I do not want notoriety, I don’t want 15 minutes of fame, I will refuse and resist every attempt to breech my beloved privacy and if necessary I’ll move oversease to escape this incident.
The money I would receive could not possibly compensate my wife and I for the loss of our privacy
Although I’m pissed that Pam seems so far to have gotten away with what she did I now know she is a troubled woman who suffers from some kind of mental illness which affects her reasoning and her perception of events.
A reliable source has informed me that the events surrounding her assaulting me are haunting Pam and causing her to have to take large doses of valium, probably to keep her from losing it and diving into a full-scale psychotic break.
As for embellishments, no, no embellishments except maybe I interpreted some of the Pastors words a little perhaps.
Anyway, I don’t think justice does necessarily need to be served for my sake – but I do want to protect people in future from becoming a hood ornament.
“Pam” does have some previous convictions Apparently she got a lenient sentence and a little parole and community service.
Wonderful.
Anyway, I don’t know what to say to people – If they believe I’m a liar thats fine, if they believe me that’s fine too.
Something tells me there are some very much more important issues to discuss here.
Thanks for your post,
Regards,
Deoxy.
I have no idea of the truth behind Deoxy’s story, but it honestly wouldn’t surprise me if it were true given some of the newspaper accounts I’ve written about on SEB in the past. There are definitely areas in the country where it would be unwise at best to reveal yourself to be anything other than a White Bread All-American Christian and people get away with little punishment for assaults much worse than the one Deoxy described all the time. You’ll recall that the police officer who killed my best friend with his cruiser got a few years probation and community service. Fortunately this isn’t the norm in most places and things are a damn sight better than they have been in the past.
Not sure whom Deoxy is attempting to reach with his message, though. Most folks here are aware that these things can and do happen and that being religious is no guarantee of being moral (or vice versa). It’s the central point behind many of my own entries over the years.
Once a Mormon and being of sound mind now, I can tell you that this is just a hypocritical act! What makes another Human’s judgment right? After all, we are all human and all have different beliefs in what is right and what is wrong. IF you look at the TRUE fundamental values of the Mormon Church, you will find it is about money and control. It is a cult that believes that you MUST pay 10% of your hard earned money to the church in-order to satisfy god, or in reality, to satisfy the Prophet who supposedly speaks with god. The Mormon Church is the richest church per capita in the USA – look it up. You don’t see the Prophet driving a Pinto, no, you see this Prophet (who speaks with god) living it up on top of Hotel UTAH – which is a very expensive hotel$$$! I am not saying the Mormon religion is the only one about money (they all are; the pope is not exactly poor), but I am saying that it is ridiculous to teach people to live in FEAR; live in fear of drinking caffeine, live in fear of watching R rated movies, or fear of drinking alcohol. Personally, if the god that the Mormons believe is real – one that judges every action you do – then I would rather not join him in heaven.
Lastly, one fact I will present to you (Mormon’s out there) is in the Book of Mormon, there is a part where god tells Nephi that he had made Laben (who had stolen these golden plates of the sacred Book of Mormon) drunk, and to kill him by cutting off Laben’s head. Now why would god have his son, a son of faith and purity, gruesomely slay another man. Are you to say that god could get the man drunk but not kill him? Almighty god would rather have someone else perform his dirty work… Don’t feed me crap about how we shouldn’t watch R rated movies or enjoy life, when the Mormon beliefs were brought up around boos and violence!
I don’t know enough, myself, about the LDS to weigh in (aside from the improbability of their Scriptural history), but I certainly have met a number of vehemently outspoken ex-Mormons. And, for that matter, vehemently outspoken ex-Catholics, vehemently outspoken ex-Smokers, and vehemently outspoken ex-Atheists.
Taken in excess, certainly the the third and the first of those can be dangerous.
That said, I agree that living in fear is a poor choice, and teaching people to live in fear often means you’re trying to sell them something.
LIES!
*smack*
go immediately to the board, and write, 300 times ‘Caffeine is our friend!
(hey, I gave up booze and cigarettes. Let’s not push me to the absolute edge of sanity here, eh!)
***Dave –
No, I’m just a Mucking Foron and hit the Brong Wutton.
I also want to say thanks to Leguru and Jason (Jason_ex_moron_er_I_mean_mormon) for their very interesting, humorous and honest portrayal of those loony mormons whom I think are the most misled bunch of cultists since the Davidians and/or Manson’s “Family”.
Great posts guys.
Thank you to Les for what sounded like the benefit of the doubt.
I’m goint to start a new topic tonight I think and leave this one alone – I think this just got a little too heated and ridiculous in a way so maybe we should close this thread.
One thing to note about this subject is that since I saw that show several of the companies who produce the cleaned movies have gone out of business or quit through frustration because of Hollywood and the law suits whih restrict their business.
Anyway. I welcome other comments here but I’m going to be starting a new topic which will probably be where I’ll be hanging out for a week or so.
Thanks to Brock, DecrepitOldFool, ***Dave, Consigliere and anyone else who posted.
I may not agree with others here, they may hate me or think I’m a big fat lying kooky commie terrorist-loving amoral asshole and I may have several exchanges of sparring posts with different people but those discussions are inteersting too and they force me to think about my position too.
Thanks and All the best to all of you,
Until next time,
Deoxy
Deoxy, although I didn’t find your story believable, please don’t think I have any negative feelings toward you. You seem to feel things very intensely, especially art – I wish people paid more attention to art and design. It makes for a richer, more wonderful existence.
I am a Mormon, but I do agree partly with all of you.
I believe that if some families (Mormons arent the only ones who edit movies by the way) want to edit a movie and cut out whatever they feel is inappropriate, then let them! they arent making you watch it, so chill out.
Personally, I wont be editing movies anytime soon. I am a fan of the Fast forward button when I feel it is necessary, but that is rare.
As long as the money goes to the right place and the viewer is happy, there should be no problem. We aren’t making you watch our versions and we aren’t going to tell you to edit the movies you watch.