[Editor’s Note: It was my intent to have a reply ready before posting this, but I’ve found myself putting it off due to a busy weekend so I’m going to go ahead and post it as is. I’ll address it properly in the comments as soon as I have the opportunity though I’m sure there are several regulars who will probably be more than capable of addressing it first.]
I’ve heard repeated here several times that Horus, an Egyptian god, is carbon copy of Jesus. The obvious implication by those that have made this statement is that Jesus is a copycat version of an earlier Egyptian deity. The purpose of this entry is to disembowel that proposition once and for all.
When I first heard that Horus was the inspiration for Jesus several years ago, I didn’t give it much credence because I couldn’t establish any source material for the claims. I still can’t, but the internet is as adept at allowing anybody and everybody to pass on misinformation.
Upon further research, I’ve concluded that this theory originated with Gerald Massey, an English poet, born 1828, died 1927. He published primarily poems, but had an interest in Egypt. He parlayed that interest in Egypt into several books and lectures in which he set forth the proposition that Horus was in essence the first Jesus, and Jesus was a cheap imitation. The primary basis for his writing is the Egyptian Book of the Dead. This is available on-line and you can easily look it up to read it yourself. Be forewarned that forced reading of this would be an extremely efficient form of torture.
It should be noted that Massey’s actual proposition was that Jesus was a copycat from more than just Horus. According to Massey, Jesus was a compilation of an innumerable number of Egyptian deities. There were over 2,000 deities who had every human and godlike characteristic one can think of, excepting Superman’s power to stop a speeding bullet.
Since Massey, there is a dearth of anybody with any credentials that has adopted a straight Horus=Jesus theory. There is a one individual that has adopted some of Massey’s thoughts and incorporated them into a book-The Christ Conspiracy. This appears to be the basis for the claims that I see. The author is Acharya S. Her website is http://www.truthbeknown.com I note that Richard Price, a noted Christ Myther, and one that I take much more seriously then Acharya, said the following:
“Those of use who uphold any version of the controversial Christ Myth theory find ourselves immediately the object not just of criticism, but even of ridicule. And it causes us chagrin to be lumped together with certain writers with whom we share the Christ Myth butt little else…..
His other criticism, like mine, is that she uses very dated sources (19th Century) who were in Price’s words “eccentrics, freethinkers, and theosophists.”
Les, I am using your post from 1/3/05 as an example of the claims because you carry more credibility than most. That said here are the claims and what I have found:
Claim #1-Horus and Jesus are born from a virgin.
Horus’s mother is Isis. Isis was married to Osiris. We do not know for what length of time, but presumably the marriage was consummated. Whether it was or wasn’t doesn’t matter though. After Osiris is killed, Isis puts him back together again (he was hacked into 14 pieces) except for his penis which was tossed in a river or a lake. Iris fashions a substitute penis for him, humps him and here comes Horus. There is nothing virginal about that.
Claim #2-Both Horus and Jesus were born to a Mary and Joseph. (Seb)
As noted Isis is Horus’s mother’s name not Mary. In addition, Seb is not Horus’s father, Osiris is. Seb is Osiris’s father. Further, Seb is a distinct name from Joseph. Putting them side by side does not make them synonyms, and that appears to be what was done here.
Claim #3-Both were born of royal descent.
This is accurate.
Claim #4-Both births were announced by angels and witnessed by shepherds.
I can find nothing that mentions that the birth of Horus was announced by an angel or witnessed by shepherds. I have found that Horus was born in a swamp, which is a pretty unlikely place for shepherds. In addition Acharya mentions that Horus was born in a cave. Massey makes no mention of this, although he does represent that Mithra was born in a cave.
Claim #5-Both were heralded by stars and angels.
There is no star that heralded Horus’s birth nor is there any angel announcing it. Archarya in a footnote in The Origins of Christianity indicates that that there are three stars named the three kings in Orion and then relates this to the birth of Jesus. When we look to the stories regarding Horus, we find no star or angel announcing his birth. To the extent that Acharya S relies upon Massey and Massey relies upon what is depicted in the panels at Luxor see (from an atheist) further regarding virgin birth and pronouncement by angels http://www.frontline-apologetics.com/carrier_luxor_inscription.htm
Claim #6-Both had later visitors (Horus-3 deities and Jesus-3 wisemen.)
There is no indication that there ever were 3 wisemen. The bible never mentions the number of wisemen, nor is there any document that reflects 3 deities at the birth of Horus. See the website referenced in Claim #5.
Claim #7-Both had murder plots against them.
There is mention that Seth did want to kill Horus, and Herod wanted to kill Jesus. so this is accurate.
Claim#8-Both came of age at 12, were baptized and their baptizers were executed.
There is no indication that Horus was preaching in a temple when he was 12. In fact, Massey indicates that Hours the child was depicted as a “weakling.” That doesn’t jive with story of Jesus preaching in the temple. Again this appears to have been a confabulation from Acharya and repeated by others.
Horus was never baptized in any of the Horus stories. In addition, Acharya mentions that John the Baptist is actually Anup the Baptizer. This individual is never mentioned anywhere in any Horus account. There is not even a footnote in Archaya’s on-line work The Origins of Christianity to support this. There is nothing.
Claim #9-Both had 12 disciples.
According to the Horus accounts, Horus had four semi-gods that were followers. There is some indication of 16 human followers and an unknown number of blacksmiths that went into battle with him. Horus did not have 12 disciples. Jesus reportedly did. Acharya failed to give a footnote to support this.
Massey points to a mural in the Book of Hades in which there are twelve reapers. Horus is not present in this scene. For Massey to make this connection he goes to a different scene within the same mural. In this scene there is a picture of a god whose name is the Master of Joy. Horus is never depicted although in other murals the artists do depict Horus. Had the artists ascribed 12 reapers in any relation to Horus all they had to do was put Horus at the scene. They did not.
Claim #10-Both walked on water.
Horus didn’t, or at least there is no record that I can find that he did. Massey does not maintain that Hours did. Massey uses wild conjecture to connect the story of fish man, Oannes, not Horus, to Jesus. Oannes came out of the sea during the day, and went back into the sea at night. Massey makes the two analogous because by his calculations, Jesus walked on water during the day.
As to Acharya, she as usual provides nothing to substantiate this.
Claim #11-Both performed miracles.
This is true although the miracles were different in scope and nature.
Claim #12 Both exorcised demons and raised Lazarus.
The actual claim is that Horus raised Osiris from the dead and that the name Osiris morphed to Lazarus. It doesn’t matter because Horus did not bring Osiris back to life. There is no mention of this in any document regarding the story. Horus did avenge Osiris’s death, but that did not raise Osiris from the dead.
Claim #13-Both held a Sermon on the Mount; both were transfigured on a mountain, died by crucifixion along with two thieves and were buried in tombs where they paid a quick visit to Hell and then rose from the dead after 3 days time, both resurrections were witness by women, and both will supposedly reign for 1,000 years in the Millennium.
These are the most damning claims if they were proven true in my opinion. Yet, I can locate none of this. No sermon, no transfiguration, certainly no crucifixion w/ two thieves, no trip to hell and no resurrection. There was an incident in which Horus was torn to pieces and Iris requested the crocodile god to fish him out of the water he was tossed into, which was done, but that’s it. I am at a loss to refute this because I can not find anything to support it.
Massey does compares a story about the Autumn Equinox related to Osiris, not Horus, as the symbolic crucifixion. There is no indication that Horus is involved in any way. There is no mention by Massey of any Sermon on the Mount. No mention or any actual crucifixion, no two thieves, no burial in a tomb. Massey does not maintain that anything of the sort occurred with Horus.
In short, of the claims outlined in this entry, I find the comparison between Horus and Jesus to consist of the following: they were of royal descent, they allegedly worked miracles and there were murder plots against them.
Not true. From the first epistle written by John:
John was, as one of the 12, an eyewitness to the ministry of Jesus on earth. The reference to the “Word” is consistent with his use of the term in the gospel that bears his name. The epistle was probably written to counter some early Gnostic or Docetic beliefs, which held that Jesus was not truly human.
John’s Gospel is also regarded to be the one most likely to be told by one who was actually an observer of the events. He tells events from a point of view of having been there, and in places where he mentions “the disciple that Jesus loved,” it has been determined that he was speaking of himself, using the phrase rather than using his name.
One of the prime examples showing the writer was an observer, is the story of the woman who broke the flask of ointment and anointed Jesus with it. The account says, “The fragrance filled all the room,” a detail that would be out of place for anyone but an observer.
Noted scholars in the time of Jesus? The only ones that would fit the description were intent on killing Him. The eyewitness accounts are told by His followers, but they conveniently do not fit your requirement. Many of them were quite ignorant, unlearned fishermen. Matthew probably had some education as a former tax-collector. Scholars generally agree that the Greek of Peter is probably the most atrocious of any of the NT texts, which is exactly as would be expected.
Nice little sleight of hand, but Eusebius is not the one who wrote Antiquities. Josephus is considered a very reliable historian.
Depends upon which “one” we are talking about. Many are the roads towards and away from belief. As far as “establishing” something, no documents written that long ago “establish” anything about the existence of skydaddies for anyone who doesn’t believe in Thor. As far as “leading” goes, the similarities, or lack of them, between ancient beliefs, are interesting as a demonstration of the exaptation of memes by competing memeplexes. But anyone who believes in Christianity, or Islam, or whatever, because some historian said such and such a person existed, is gullible. So basically, I agree with consi.
On the contrary, the whole point at issue here is, did Jesus exist as a historical person or not? Finding Him mentioned in Josephus’ writing is an extraordinary find, because his scholarship and his attention to accurate historical detail would arguably make him the most reliable historian of the period.
But the record does not depend on just the simple fact it mentions Jesus. He also provides an account of John the Baptist and one of James the brother of Jesus. He goes into great detail about imperial Rome and the procurators who ruled over Israel. And at a time before any controversy was even imagined over the matter, he accurately dates the death of Herod to 4 B.C.E.
And there still remains the fact that writing during the time period when he wrote this history, there still would have been enough people around who would know the truth of the matter. If he had published as history an account of someone who did not exist, surely his reputation would have been affected by it.
But he was considered reliable by those whose accounts are the closest we can find to Josephus’ time period. The Roman historian Tacitus would be one from roughly the same time as Josephus (110 C.E. compared to around 94 C.E.).
The question was raised about why there were no accounts of the gospel around any earlier. But scholars have accounted for their circulation for quite some time, and with much hypothesis about the forms that the present accounts must have been compiled from. Sources that try to make Jesus out to be purely fiction, do so only by either disregarding the tremendous amount of scholarship that has been done, or by dismissing it outright, or by simply ignoring it.
Depends on what you mean by “here”. Consi’s original post claims that the comparison of Jesus with Horus is facile- not one word about the existence of the historical person of Jesus. Along the way, other issues have come up, including belief in Christianity and other religions. In my quote and response you object to, Spocko refers to “xianity” and Consi to “belief”, which I interpreted as referring to the religion, not the existence of the person, of Jesus. Correct me if I’m wrong, guys. As Laurie Anderson said, “it wouldn’t be the first time”.
Josephus work is pretty impressive, but there’s nothing all that extraordinary about his account on Jesus considering the nature of the account and the fact that it’s been corrupted over the years by those wishing to paint Jesus in a more positive light. It stands, at best, as a footnote which is largely disregarded by most Biblical scholars today as anything establishing proof of Jesus’ historical existence.
On the contrary, “Biblical scholars today” consider Josephus very much reliable on the fact of Jesus’ existence. Not all of them, however, would base that opinion entirely on the account in Josephus. Nor would they hinge the credibility of Josephus on the passage in question; rather, most of them would point to the passage which mentions James, “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” Every extant reference has this same phrase in it. Some critics argue for interpolation, but it does not fit, mainly because they suggest interpolation by a later Christian interpolator. But in the NT James is always called “the brother of the Lord,” and no Christian would refer to Jesus by saying “who was called” Christ. And a descriptive phrase such as this was a common Josephus tool to introduce someone not previously mentioned. Not knowing much else about James, if he knew James was the brother of Christ, it would have been very natural to include it.
The burden of proof is on those who have suggested interpolation, and has not been satisfied.
Saying Josephus is “unreliable” is not to say that everything he wrote is to be disregarded. He is, in fact, even by those who call him “unreliable,” acknowledged as who was not so much wrong in his facts as in his personal slant added to them. It is not nearly as accurate to say he is unreliable on the matter of whether an actual Jesus existed, as it would be to say he might not be as reliable in describing the circumstances and actions of Jesus. Certainly he wrote the “Jewish Wars” as a Roman “agent” of sorts, and thus was favorable in his description of Vespasian’s bid for power. Titus is portrayed as a hero and a valiant warrior.
But we need to remember this history is about the Jews. He is sympathetic toward the Jews and their plight as a city under siege. But he was critical of the Zealots, even though at one time he had been a member of their group. The only thing that can truthfully be said of his “unreliability” concerning a history of the Jews, is that because he was a Jewish aristocrat (a Sadducee as I recall), he was more disposed towards interpretations that put the common people at fault for a lot of the problems the Jews had. That makes the passage about Jesus even more remarkable, since Jesus was identified with the am ha aretz, or “people of the land.” the expectation would be that he would criticize Jesus also, but his comments make it clear that, like other Jews, even among the aristocracy, he considered Jesus to be innocent.
Testimonium Flavianum states Jesus is the messiah note the fact that Josephus is known 1 never to have been involved in christianity 2wrote the antiquities of the jews to mock new religions3Josephus is known is whole life to have been an Orthodox Jew4It doesn’t appear in earlier versions5Thus your only extra biblical proof text has been disproven
5I Hate Jesus and he can fuck off if i believed in a hell jesus would be there with his friend hitler (a devout catholic!)
Power to the atheists New World Order!!!!
Dear Dick.
Fuck off.
love
John.
LJ:
You’ve lost me. I don’t understand the comment.
I was referring to ‘josephusdidntwritethat’ as a dickhead for writing silly things and asked him nicely, with love, to depart. I don’t need the competition.
Don:
You created another thread applauding Nunya for his work here. Yet, a review of the thread reveals that Nunya failed to carry his burden at all. Maybe you would like to carry the bucket from the point at which Nunya dropped it-the very beginning of the discussion?
Don, that’s by far the best stuff you’ve written.
It’s prob’ly relevant that I agree with your ‘history lesson’.
Don:
As I thought.
LJ:
Your standards for crawling into bed are liberal indeed.
Yeah. I’m a slut.
I’ve even agreed with some of the stuff you’ve written.
You guys never cease to make me laugh. It’s hilarious how you guys blindly reject God. Ok number 1, if Jesus, Creator of the Universe, is truly Horus, then why would Horus’s ALL SEEING EYE be used by a LUCIFERIAN organization, the Illuminati????
Obviously Horus does not equal Jesus. Horus=the Devil.
Also the Hindu Hari Krishna is a fraud, the Atheistic Beatles, who are also Goat worshippers, wrote a song worshipping it (My Sweet Lord H.K.) because it wasn’t Christian but a corruption of it.
As Hari=Horus may be a connection with Horus there but everybody has their own interpretation of where Krishna came from, remember each language is different. Hindu is different from Aramic, Greek, Latin, English, etc. Another Satanic Counterfeit. Remember The Devil knows exactly who Jesus is and will do anything to twist and corrupt the True God of the Universe.
By the way, Hari looks a lot like “Anti” to me
And this one makes me crack up. Have you ever noticed Mithra’s name is nothing more than MYTH plus Ra (Egyptian god). That right there proves that deity false.
The Illuminati is an organization run by the Satanic Elite in the world. The Antichrist of Revelation is going to present itself in a way so unbelievers of God’s Word will be deceived. The masses of the world will follow him, (The second beast of revelation) who will rule the world under his own control, proudly wearing the Eye of Horus on himself.
The Devil is out there trying to get as many people as he can to not believe the Word of God as true, so he creates counterfeit religions, to deceive people. There is enough biblical prophecy which is happening before our eyes right now. The world is going totally crazy.
About “Jesus’s birthday” being December 25th, first it was not, it is said to be September. The Roman Catholic Church, Which is NOT the first Christian religion (The first Christians were the Baptists, originally Jews who lived in the Middle East in the First Century.) The RCC, which is undoubtedly Pagan in origin, had hard times converting Pagans to the newly spread religion, so the Emperor of Rome, had decided to place polytheistic Pagan deities into their religion and call them “Saints”. There were other “Saints” too, who were the original Gospel writers, who were just human, but the RC transformed them into these semi-Gods. There is no doubt the Catholic Church has Pagan roots, this includes Sacraments, rites, incense, holy water, praying to the dead, polytheism, statues (which goes against the 2nd Commandment), etc. But this is after the Apostles and disciples had spread the news of Jesus to Rome, and Rome had corrupted it.
And The Krishna=Christ legend is bologna as Christ in Hebrew is “mashiakh”. Obviously Hari Krishna itself is the Devil’s way of getting you to believe that the True God stemmed from Myhology.
Now the Son=Sun theory is silly because number one even in languages like Latin, which is similar to English. Son in Latin is Puer and Sun in Latin is Sol. Puer and Sol are as closely related as black and white in the way they sound and look. Scary enough, this is Latin, where Catholicism started from, Not where true Christianity started from. Only in English are Son and Sun similar, thus ditching the theory they were done on purpose because Christianity did not start in the English Speaking world. The Bible writers did not speak English.
“The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.” Psalm 14:1
God has told you that you are fools if you don’t believe in Him.
Now you guys are nothing more than a bunch of skeptical atheists anyway.
Of Course there is no true way to 100% prove if a religion is true, nor ONE CANNOT 100% disprove Christianity either. It’s a faith and you believe. That’s how it goes.
The world is going to end soon because it is getting crazier than ever. With a Satanic one world government at hand and the upping in frequency of disasters, I believe Jesus must save the world before man completely annihilates himself.He Himself said that ” For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in diverse places.”(Matthew 24:7)
and “And great earthquakes shall be in diverse places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights”.(Luke 21:11). Just look around you. Watch your world news. You’ll see this stuff happening.
“And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.” (Revelation 13)
Notice Rev 13, if you open up your bible, also talks about the AntiChrist, who is probably going to be Dictator of the World in the future, a Globalist Elite, Illuminati, with that glaring Horus Eye on his jacket.
The New World Order also want to implant you with a microchip inscribed with a barcode so they can track your every purchase. Few people have already received them in their hands as a cashless way to buy and be monitered.
The Bible has also predicted the Rebirth of Israel 1000s of years before it happened in 1948.
Bible prophecy is upon us, if you haven’t gotten right with God, you better. Jesus promises to save all who believe but for educated fools who do not, Hell will be their eternal lot.
You better get right with God ok, stop calling Christianity a myth. This exactly is what demons (All the apparitions, including those of the Virgin Mary[The Catholic one who doesn’t point you to Jesus but to her{in reall life, Mary was humble, not power-hungry}] who appear in the world) want you to believe. They want you to make false connections with paganism and Hinduism. I got news for you: Mary was a common name as there were two Marys in the Bible, the Earthly mother in Which Christ was not conceived (No sperm/egg connection) because God just jumped into her and created Himself in human form inside of her. Jesus was never conceived, rather created by God directly as Adam and Eve were. The second was Mary Magdalene, a close friend of Jesus. Mary was a common name and not made up from an alleged pagan isis/osiris character.
Do you believe in a Heaven? Do you want to go there? Yes, even God wants you to go there. If you simply believe in Jesus you will be saved. No matter how foolish you think it is, for if you are not in Christ, you will suffer in Hell for all Eternity. I’m sorry, but it’s the truth. You have a choice, Jesus or Hell, Turn or Burn.
Pick one now. Your soul is at stake.
Thank you, God Bless, and I pray that the LORD shows you all the way to Him so you can be saved and brought into Heaven. God bless you and I pray for your lost souls.
“For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.”(John 3:20)
By the way I want you to check out these websites. They prove that biblical events are happening today, some show you how to get saved, and some talk about the Beast System, New World Order, which is coming into place. You should read these sites.
http://www.Jesus-Is-Savior.com
http://www.Jesus-Is-Lord.com
http://www.Jesusislord.com
http://www.Infowars.com
http://www.prisonplanet.com
That’s right, Alex. We simply have to live with the fact that there are many things we cannot disprove, for instance the Invisible Pink Unicorn, Jehovah, and the teapot in orbit between Mars and Jupiter. But we can decide not to believe in things that seem very improbable, such as the three items above (sorry, Your Pinkness, I love You even if I don’t believe in You).
The Bible is a hodgepodge of history, myth, and hard-won wisdom, but the Word of God it ain’t, even if it says it is, because there is no God, no Devil, and no Heaven and Hell. Do you think God would inspire a book with so many mistakes in it? Sorry, but you’re not going to inspire, or scare, many atheists by quoting from people who believed in talking snakes.
Alex, that was too funny. You seem hilariously unaware that Christianity is just as much of a myth as all the other religions. In fact, it is even more discredited since it borrows so heavily from the other religions.
Sorry for double-dipping, but I had to post this proof of what I had foolishly thought a myth…
Perhaps you should attempt to refute everything Alex has said, instead of associating Christianity with pink elephants.
Zilch; Is that a winged nymph or a fairy?
You say that as though Alex said something worth considering: It’s all speculation and fear-mongering. Just for an example of how illogical his views are consider “Hari looks a lot like “Anti” to me”. How do you deal responsibly with a comment like that?
And quoting from the Bible means nothing to those who do not believe in it’s validity.
It would be better, …, for you to read through the archives here. Then you’ll see that views like Alex’s have already been amply considered and dismissed.
I don’t need to associate Christianity with pink elephants. Its followers do a good enough job of that themselves.
Nothing Alex says is worth considering? Why?
Because Alex is part of the tinfoil hat club.
What an interesting way to discover that the symbol “:” followed by the letter “P” produces a
Nice post Alex – well put together with a good command of spelling and grammar rarely seen in xians.
That was a bit subtle.
Skeptic and Atheist, I can handle but a sceptical atheist infers I’m sceptical about my atheism which I’m not.
Hindu religion was around over 1000 years before xianity.
Krishna was supposed to be the personification of god just like Jesus was supposed to be the personification of god.
The Hari Krishnas are a sect of Hindu much the same as the Baptists are a sect of xianity.
As for it being a fraud – they’re all scams and frauds and as blood-thirsty as each other although Bhagavad-Gita is much more clever and wise than the bible.
If you believe that scam you’ll believe anything … oh, you do.
As I said …
Truth? You can’t handle the truth … sorry; I got carried away there for a moment.
Let’s face it, Alex; you believe the scam you want to believe in whereas many of us here see it for what it is – large scaled and simple mind control.
Oh, and the devil? Just more Ying and Yang stuff.
By the way, please explain.
How (and why unless he’s a sadist) can your god allow the devil to have so much power?
Be careful it’s a trick question.
“Nice try, but it’s turtles all the way down…”
Freaky as it may seem, “My Sweet Lord” by that evilbeatle George Harrison is one of my favorite tunes (and I’m an atheist, heavy metal jammin’, type of guy)!
My sweet lord
Hm, my lord
Hm, my lord
I really want to see you
Really want to be with you
Really want to see you lord
But it takes so long, my lord
My sweet lord
Hm, my lord
Hm, my lord
I really want to know you
Really want to go with you
Really want to show you lord
That it wont take long, my lord (hallelujah)
My sweet lord (hallelujah)
Hm, my lord (hallelujah)
My sweet lord (hallelujah)
I really want to see you
Really want to see you
Really want to see you, lord
Really want to see you, lord
But it takes so long, my lord (hallelujah)
My sweet lord (hallelujah)
Hm, my lord (hallelujah)
My, my, my lord (hallelujah)
I really want to know you (hallelujah)
Really want to go with you (hallelujah)
Really want to show you lord (aaah)
That it wont take long, my lord (hallelujah)
Hmm (hallelujah)
My sweet lord (hallelujah)
My, my, lord (hallelujah)
Hm, my lord (hare krishna)
My, my, my lord (hare krishna)
Oh hm, my sweet lord (krishna, krishna)
Oh-uuh-uh (hare hare)
Now, I really want to see you (hare rama)
Really want to be with you (hare rama)
Really want to see you lord (aaah)
But it takes so long, my lord (hallelujah)
Hm, my lord (hallelujah)
My, my, my lord (hare krishna)
My sweet lord (hare krishna)
My sweet lord (krishna krishna)
My lord (hare hare)
Hm, hm (gurur brahma)
Hm, hm (gurur vishnu)
Hm, hm (gurur devo)
Hm, hm (maheshwara)
My sweet lord (gurur sakshaat)
My sweet lord (parabrahma)
My, my, my lord (tasmayi shree)
My, my, my, my lord (guruve namah)
My sweet lord (hare rama)
[fade:]
(hare krishna)
My sweet lord (hare krishna)
My sweet lord (krishna krishna)
My lord (hare hare)
Spocko, enjoying a piece of entertainment that was inspired by or relies on religous belief, is not, of itself, an endorsement of said belief.
I happen to love the old tune “Spirit In The Sky” but I decidedly don’t “have a friend in Jesus”.
LOL! Sing it with me now – “Gotta have a friend in Jesus”…
Wasn’t Greenbaum Jewish?
And to prove all things are connected, “Spirit In The Sky” was the opening song in a delightfully twisted movie called Miami Blue. In that movie, Alec Baldwin kills a hare krishna by breaking his finger. I shit you not, his finger.
Oh, fuck! THANK YOU Spocko!!! I love me some George Harrison (the guy and his music). Hari Krishnas may be as deluded as Christians, but they’re a whole helluva lot sexier.
I’ve had too much turkey and Alex’s post almost made me bring it back up from laughing so hard. If I didn’t have 124 email messages to get through I’d give it the proper fisking it deserves.
Well, that and the fact that most of it has been addressed in other threads previously. I really wish someone could come up with a new argument.
Wow, you wouldn’t believe that amount of crap you come up with if you google “a new argument”.
George Harrison = KrishnaChrist!
Spocko, for shame! “Jesus” had nothing on George Harrison. Don’t you know that blasphemy against Our Sweet Lord is a sin?
“Paradise is everywhere”
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare…
My personal favorite is probably “Run of the Mill.” I also love “Long Long Long” and “While My Guitar Gently Weeps” from the Beatles era. “My Sweet Lord” is a great toe-tapper.
Meanwhile, all this talk of Hare Krishnas makes me want to pop my “Airplane!” DVD into the machine…
I’d heard of it before but … well the old memory ain’t what it used to be so I Googled for a memory refresher and found a SEB Zilch reference to it on 4/04/05 at 07:17 PM.
Who needs a memory when Google’s round?
And here I was just about to commend you on your creativity, KPG, when it was just happenstance. On the other hand, as you know, the difference between a mistake and the beginning of a brilliant jazz riff depends on how you run with it.
Many Christians run with the error-ridden Bible and produce brilliant results, enriching all of us. Many others just get mired in the mistakes and spread silliness and misery. What kind of Christian are you, gentle Christians out there?
KPG: I also love “Spirit In The Sky”.
I don’t think it is all that uncommon for Jews to sing christian songs, including “Spirit In The Sky”.
According to
http://www.jewhoo.com/editor/profiles/normangreenbaum.html
“Mr. Greenbaum had a traditional Jewish upbringing. He went to Hebrew school and was bar mitzvah.”
Another good example is Neil Diamond, who has two christmas albums. His first christmas album included Happy Christmas (War is Over), which some christian non-fans find to be even more outrageous than a jew singing christmas carols.
This is where your argument is flawed. There was no ONE Egyptian Book of the Dead. Any scholar of Ancient Egypt knows the book of the dead was a personal (and expensive thing).
When you go to Barnes and Noble and pick up the Book of the Dead, it is only showing some more main stories of it. It had been changed over time, where certain things were taken out. I believe if you were to go to a musuem and translate an older book of the dead for someone, you would probably see the story of Horus in there.
The problem is not that the story of Horus doesn’t exist. It is that the story doesn’t line up as the proponents of the Horus=Jesus proposition say it does.
Hey, my mate, next you’ll be telling us the Jesus myth is totally unique in every detail compared to all Invisible Man myths preceding it.
How many points in fingerprints have to be the same to ‘warrant a match’?
In common everyday logic it boils down to: If it looks and smells like dog shit you probably won’t bother tasting it.
Yeah, it has to be closer than saying something like you and I look alike, which is the equivalent of what was done in this thread. Unless you want to review through the very first post and review the source documents, to carry the conversation forward because you believe you have something of value to add. Otherwise, even utilizing your common logic and my simple farm boy sensibility, it is pretty damn clear that we do not look alike. Same can be said for Horus=Jesus.
Alright, farm-boy; I’ll give you that round but when I came back from Brisbane I’ll take another shot at it after re-reading the whole thread.
Everyone knows you’re wrong; why can’t you just lay back and let me tickle your tummy?
I believe it will be when you come back. In any event, I shall wait, just not with bated breath.
I think you will find that all the stories from the bible, including the normal name of God, Amen Ra, are of Ejyptian Origin, But thats not a surprise, Every God and Goddess share the same traits.
Even the tails we tell children, like Hopscotch, or “Ring around the Rosie”. These are all Cosmic events that Mythology is working out.
The rewriting and foundations of religion changed things to serve a power structure as the needs of man began to outweigh the needs of the Gods, since the Gods had left and the prophets of the earlier age were killed off.
Then History became myth and the skies changed.
You would have some luck reading up on Plasma Cosmology and hopefully that could point you to where you need to be to begin to understand the basis of Mythology.
Check out Thunderbolts.info for a bit more insight into our past and future.
How would you interpret someone being a “virgin?” Is it by hymen tearing only? If a man had a very small dick and stuck it in a “virgin” but didn’t rupture the hymen, would she still be considered a “virgin” and thus her child “born of a virgin?”
Doesn’t the birth of the child cause the hymen to rupture? Wouldn’t the male child’s whole body (penis included)inside the vagina/uterus invalidate her as a virgin in this case?
I see nothing in the bible that interprets a virgin based on hymen loss only. Losing your virginity is sexual intercourse with a member of the opposite sex, be it human or animal.
But if we are going to use the hymen as a basis for virginity, then. . . I don’t know, how big was the dildo that Horus’ mom used? Maybe it was small enough to not rupture the hymen. Maybe Osiris has a really small penis as well and that kept Isis a virgin throughout their marriage?
We can interpret it to fit just like the Christians do when puzzled by scriptures!
Jeebus this thread is still going?
Still amazes me how people blind themselves to the facts in order to believe something so utterly ridiculous.
I cant imagine anything more obvious than the fact that Christianity is just Sun god worship based on much older pagan text.